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As much as I've been sickened by Murray in the last decade...


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I try to keep it as brief as possible when dealing with those types bud, but I must say, you've not needed any back-up, if it was a boxing match the ref would have ushered GCL back to his corner long ago.

Haha. From the looks of things this arguement was over before it began.

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I try to keep it as brief as possible when dealing with those types bud, but I must say, you've not needed any back-up, if it was a boxing match the ref would have ushered GCL back to his corner long ago.

Haha. From the looks of things this arguement was over before it began.

I did think my initial post was quite, "too the point". And fairly honest, without being offensive :D

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You are correct the difference in the early 90’s wasn’t large, then sky got involved and it was. That is my point that you have just illustrated for me. Yes we had sky in the late 90’s but compare our exposure to the EPLS and it will show you what people were and weren’t interested in. It is about leagues and names and the marketing We do make money marketing the rangers brand worldwide , but you seem to think a sixteen year old with no experience could do a better job? That’s ridiculous. Rangers can’t force people to watch the spl, we have tried but it’s just not a glamorous league. Even at the leagues peak (advocatt) we made a mere ripple round the world and massive effort was made by Rangers/the spl and the tims to promote the brand at that time…look how that ended. We should promote our brand to the maximum but you aren't being realistic as to what that is. Move us into a bigger league and we have serious potential that we don't have in the SPL.

I didn’t mention him “ripping into liewell” at all, no idea why you put that in quotes. When he attacked john reid it was club related and not personal and to do with the famine song.

What comments Smith has said would you have wanted Sir David to say ?

See, where we differ is in the fact that you think that everyone around the world was just desperate to watch English football, thats where I disagree. I think the EPL is a better run league (not hard I admit given the pathetic nature of those who run the SPL I grant you), and, they marketted themselves better, as did the individual clubs. We didnt. If we did, I would be fairly certain that a neutral would rather watch Rangers than Blackburn or Bolton? Perhaps its the line of work I am in, but, I see the potential, I saw it then. To use another entertainment form, Mr Cowell can get people in massive numbers, on both sides of the Atlantic, to spend money buying shite! And turns people with no talent into stars. It can be done, and, I may be alone, but I think we should have made massive efforts to do this. We had enough clout to make people believe we were on a par with England.

Hmm? I would question why you think the Advocaat period was the leagues high? Especially in our neighbours opinions? Surely the humbling of Leeds was the zenith in their eyes? I found it dull during the advocaat years, we were head and shoulders above everyone else. No competition means a less attractve product for me, nice as it was to steamroller teams.

Again, you want specifics, rather than the theory behind it? Why? As a big Smith fan, you are surely aware of his interviews over the last, say, 4 months? Defending the club and the team. Therefore, those! The chairman has a duty to stand up for the club, the fans, and the reputation. Smith has been doing that. Even Bain did it after the fiasco over at the Unirea game. Things like that ;)

No one is arguing that rangers aren't a more attractive prospect than blackburn and bolton but because they are in the EPL they are part of that package and get all the benefits that go with it. Murdoch overpaid the EPL's TV contracts so they could attract the best players in the world and thus people would want to watch it and money could be made. That is simple i agree but how do you achieve that without the financial clout of the EPL ? If a sixteen year old could do it would be easy for you to explain how the SPL could be sold to the world with a simon cowellesque ease and without massive TV money to back it.....

If we are talking marketing then of course that was the SPL at it's highest during the advocatt era. Biggest tv contract with the widest international scope for access, most expensive players from the most varied amount of countries, highest wage bill ever in the socttish league, highest attendances in recent years around the scottish league, multi national branding on the strip and highest level of investment in the game. This was the time to promote the scottish game in far flung markets and plenty of attempts were made but it didn't work and almost bankrupt the scottish game. Leeds was the zenith when we steamrollered everyone and sellck had a team made of of wayne biggins and stuart slater....i disagree from a marketing prespective (what i thought this discussion was meant to be about)

I ask for specifics as you keep making grand proclamtions that are making no sense to me, if you don't want to explain them so be it but i can imagine why. Some of the things smith said in recent times i would hate to hear the Chairman of Rangers say.

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I find it astounding that you would think we should compete with Man utd on any level considering all the advantages they have over us.

You are not a Rangers man.

Run along , adults are talking.

Yes, but so are you and you're being shot down in flames by Outlaws responses, although why he bothers to waste the brain power on you is beyond me Smithers.

Surely there are a few threads in general that would suit you better…maybe" what am I having for my tea tonight "or something like that

Perhaps, but watching you go round and round in circles, defending a man who couldn't give a fuck about our club until Ayr Utd knocked him back & Graeme Souness told him there was booty to be plundered at Ibrox, is quite entertaining. Your hero Murray will be gone soon, will the new owners get to use you as a footstool as well?

Scathing, but, quite accurate :lol:

I am going round in circles as you seem unable to properly explain what you mean, it's difficult trying to draw any detail out of you but i can be patient when it suits me.

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I try to keep it as brief as possible when dealing with those types bud, but I must say, you've not needed any back-up, if it was a boxing match the ref would have ushered GCL back to his corner long ago.

Haha. From the looks of things this arguement was over before it began.

Feel free to point out where i am going wrong..... (tu)

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I try to keep it as brief as possible when dealing with those types bud, but I must say, you've not needed any back-up, if it was a boxing match the ref would have ushered GCL back to his corner long ago.

I don't even bother with lightweigths like you...far too easy..... :sherlock:

:wink:

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I try to keep it as brief as possible when dealing with those types bud, but I must say, you've not needed any back-up, if it was a boxing match the ref would have ushered GCL back to his corner long ago.

Haha. From the looks of things this arguement was over before it began.

Feel free to point out where i am going wrong..... (tu)

You keep posting.

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:BELM:

Why did you have to edit that post when it was only a Emoticons you posted? :sherlock:

For some mongo reason, I double posted, that's all. Even I make the occasional booboo. :blush:

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:BELM:

Why did you have to edit that post when it was only a Emoticons you posted? :sherlock:

For some mongo reason, I double posted, that's all. Even I make the occasional booboo. :blush:

No bother.I thought you were losing your touch for a minute (tu):lol:

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:BELM:

Why did you have to edit that post when it was only a Emoticons you posted? :sherlock:

For some mongo reason, I double posted, that's all. Even I make the occasional booboo. :blush:

No bother.I thought you were losing your touch for a minute (tu):lol:

Form is temporary, class is permanent. :wink:

:craphead:

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Bit of a debate going on there.

My memory of Rangers in the 80s pre Murray is of a very average club unable to take advantage of its size and power in any way.

The fact that it was sold to Murray for 6 miilion shows what Marlborough and co were thinking, make a buck and get out.

Rangers stadium at the time was good but needed money spent on it, the team was at best below average and probably the worst Rangers team i can remember.

During the 9 in a row years not one fan would have sat there and said i dont want to win 9 or even 10 in a row because in 2010 we will be skint and SDM will walk away, hindsight makes us all experts.

Yes SDM has dropped a few bollocks in his time, not one person on here can claim to have made no mistakes in life.

As for not being a Rangers fan, that is bollocks, he put his money and ours of course into the club.We are happy to accept fans of other teams on this forum claiming that Rangers are their second team, sorry that is bollocks you have only one team and you put your time effort and money into that team, this is what SDM has done.

You will have people for him and people against him thats democracy at its best, but if you reckon for one second that we would have been better off without him for all the years he was here ask yourself one question.

Who would have come in and taken over when we cant get one legitimate Rangers fan to buy our club now when we really need them....

We have had lists of so called interested parties from the guy in Florida the guy Ellis in London maybe David King, some middle east consortium etc etc etc . Ask yourself one question are you 100% comfortable with these so called investors ploughing money into Rangers and looking for no return,from where i see it we could be begging SDM to save us in the future, because i am not comfortable with the options we are looking at.

Yes Walter has come out of late and defended the club but dont kid yourself that Walter isnt playing mind games with people, he is in SDM's inner circle and is well aware of the big picture.

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Murray was only guilty of chasing a dream and we were all happy to jump on for the ride, now it's over, so many are happy to stand back and point the finger at one man. Lets not forget Murray was the man who brought Walter home and in return has delivered yet more glory years.

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Bit of a debate going on there.

My memory of Rangers in the 80s pre Murray is of a very average club unable to take advantage of its size and power in any way.

The fact that it was sold to Murray for 6 miilion shows what Marlborough and co were thinking, make a buck and get out.

Rangers stadium at the time was good but needed money spent on it, the team was at best below average and probably the worst Rangers team i can remember.

During the 9 in a row years not one fan would have sat there and said i dont want to win 9 or even 10 in a row because in 2010 we will be skint and SDM will walk away, hindsight makes us all experts.

Yes SDM has dropped a few bollocks in his time, not one person on here can claim to have made no mistakes in life.

As for not being a Rangers fan, that is bollocks, he put his money and ours of course into the club.We are happy to accept fans of other teams on this forum claiming that Rangers are their second team, sorry that is bollocks you have only one team and you put your time effort and money into that team, this is what SDM has done.

You will have people for him and people against him thats democracy at its best, but if you reckon for one second that we would have been better off without him for all the years he was here ask yourself one question.

Who would have come in and taken over when we cant get one legitimate Rangers fan to buy our club now when we really need them....

We have had lists of so called interested parties from the guy in Florida the guy Ellis in London maybe David King, some middle east consortium etc etc etc . Ask yourself one question are you 100% comfortable with these so called investors ploughing money into Rangers and looking for no return,from where i see it we could be begging SDM to save us in the future, because i am not comfortable with the options we are looking at.

Yes Walter has come out of late and defended the club but dont kid yourself that Walter isnt playing mind games with people, he is in SDM's inner circle and is well aware of the big picture.

I can see some of your point, and, even agree with a lot of them. I am still of the opinion he should have gone after NIAR, quite a lot of the animosity towards him wouldnt have been there now I would think if that was the case.

Have to disagree with the highlighted part, he openly admitted he was an Ayr Utd, fan, tried to buy them first! And, is more of a Rugby man. I dont personally accept "second teams", its, well, wrong. But that is as a fan. Murray, as chairman and owner, is a businessman first and foremost. Just because he owns us, doesnt make him a Rangers fan. In addition, he doesnt put all his time and effort into us, he had the rest of MIH and the like to look after, plus his passion in regard to vinyards. We are a small part of his "empire" so, bit off the mark there.

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We can't always agree in every instance but I reckon twenty years at the healm and the highs and lows of the rollercoaster ride along the way makes him a fan. He may not be a die hard but a fan all the same. I just hope the incoming people realize that we are more than just a club.

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Bit of a debate going on there.

My memory of Rangers in the 80s pre Murray is of a very average club unable to take advantage of its size and power in any way.

The fact that it was sold to Murray for 6 miilion shows what Marlborough and co were thinking, make a buck and get out.

Rangers stadium at the time was good but needed money spent on it, the team was at best below average and probably the worst Rangers team i can remember.

During the 9 in a row years not one fan would have sat there and said i dont want to win 9 or even 10 in a row because in 2010 we will be skint and SDM will walk away, hindsight makes us all experts.

Yes SDM has dropped a few bollocks in his time, not one person on here can claim to have made no mistakes in life.

As for not being a Rangers fan, that is bollocks, he put his money and ours of course into the club.We are happy to accept fans of other teams on this forum claiming that Rangers are their second team, sorry that is bollocks you have only one team and you put your time effort and money into that team, this is what SDM has done.

You will have people for him and people against him thats democracy at its best, but if you reckon for one second that we would have been better off without him for all the years he was here ask yourself one question.

Who would have come in and taken over when we cant get one legitimate Rangers fan to buy our club now when we really need them....

We have had lists of so called interested parties from the guy in Florida the guy Ellis in London maybe David King, some middle east consortium etc etc etc . Ask yourself one question are you 100% comfortable with these so called investors ploughing money into Rangers and looking for no return,from where i see it we could be begging SDM to save us in the future, because i am not comfortable with the options we are looking at.

Yes Walter has come out of late and defended the club but dont kid yourself that Walter isnt playing mind games with people, he is in SDM's inner circle and is well aware of the big picture.

I can see some of your point, and, even agree with a lot of them. I am still of the opinion he should have gone after NIAR, quite a lot of the animosity towards him wouldnt have been there now I would think if that was the case.

Have to disagree with the highlighted part, he openly admitted he was an Ayr Utd, fan, tried to buy them first! And, is more of a Rugby man. I dont personally accept "second teams", its, well, wrong. But that is as a fan. Murray, as chairman and owner, is a businessman first and foremost. Just because he owns us, doesnt make him a Rangers fan. In addition, he doesnt put all his time and effort into us, he had the rest of MIH and the like to look after, plus his passion in regard to vinyards. We are a small part of his "empire" so, bit off the mark there.

Surely the reason someone like Sir David has a CEO at Ibriox is he has other businesses to run ? How else would he make his money if he had no other responsibilities. He made it clear that comparatively speaking he spent far more of his time on Rangers than any other parts of his empire, possibly to its determent.

A strange criticism to be honest.

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We can't always agree in every instance but I reckon twenty years at the healm and the highs and lows of the rollercoaster ride along the way makes him a fan.

Care to expand on the rationale of that?

It makes no sense as it stands.

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Look at where we are now with SDM as opposed to where we were going with Marlborough.

We're now close to bankrupt and haven't been able to buy a player for years.

When he took over we had the best Stadium in the UK, possibly Europe, a star studded team, sellout crowds every week and were just embarking on winning the league for nine years in a row.

A stadium whos capacity he increased, where we still have capacity crowds and are staring 2 in a row (which is under his tenure as well), He was able to get players pre-Sky TV and pre current CL format where support size mattered and not country size. (and in fact at a time when English teams were banned from Europe). SDM has had to deal with a whole shift in the economics of the game scince he took over ... but hey ho, lets be selective in how we remember these things! I guess those who will want to demonise him will, those who look a bit deeper will see what he has achieved in a positive light.

(tu)

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Bit of a debate going on there.

My memory of Rangers in the 80s pre Murray is of a very average club unable to take advantage of its size and power in any way.

The fact that it was sold to Murray for 6 miilion shows what Marlborough and co were thinking, make a buck and get out.

Rangers stadium at the time was good but needed money spent on it, the team was at best below average and probably the worst Rangers team i can remember.

During the 9 in a row years not one fan would have sat there and said i dont want to win 9 or even 10 in a row because in 2010 we will be skint and SDM will walk away, hindsight makes us all experts.

Yes SDM has dropped a few bollocks in his time, not one person on here can claim to have made no mistakes in life.

As for not being a Rangers fan, that is bollocks, he put his money and ours of course into the club.We are happy to accept fans of other teams on this forum claiming that Rangers are their second team, sorry that is bollocks you have only one team and you put your time effort and money into that team, this is what SDM has done.

You will have people for him and people against him thats democracy at its best, but if you reckon for one second that we would have been better off without him for all the years he was here ask yourself one question.

Who would have come in and taken over when we cant get one legitimate Rangers fan to buy our club now when we really need them....

We have had lists of so called interested parties from the guy in Florida the guy Ellis in London maybe David King, some middle east consortium etc etc etc . Ask yourself one question are you 100% comfortable with these so called investors ploughing money into Rangers and looking for no return,from where i see it we could be begging SDM to save us in the future, because i am not comfortable with the options we are looking at.

Yes Walter has come out of late and defended the club but dont kid yourself that Walter isnt playing mind games with people, he is in SDM's inner circle and is well aware of the big picture.

When Murray had taken over, we had already signed Englands captain and goal keeper.Plus its a myth that Murray kicked started the Rangers revolution, also it was not just Murray that put money into the club,we had a few investors that put loads of money into our club.

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I never said Murray started the revolution i havent even hinted at it.

I also never said he was the sole investor if you look at it i said his and our money, and obviously we have had King and others invest.

Read the post for what it is not what you perceive it to be, i dont have the time to sit and cover every angle and point to satisfy the forum snipers

The whole point of having a forum is where fans can have their say in what is going on with their club, my perception may or may not differ from the next fans. Everyone is entitled to an opinion without being shouted down by someone who has a different view, its what makes it a forum. If someone has a point to make and is scared to make it because he will be mocked or some half baked smart arse decides to question every comment made in a thread is that fair. There are fellow bears who may not be the most eloquent or are not well versed in the nuts and bolts of our club and its history but they still deserve the right to comment without fear of ridicule.

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