I sat on Silver! 1 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 OK so this one's not for the faint hearted so stop reading now if you think the Atlantic League is a crap idea. On the other hand, if you think it 'is' a good idea, then keep reading - I'd be delighted to hear any counter arguments/suggestions etc. I'll try not to bore everyone to death on this so here are a few FACTS!The prize money for winning the SPL is approximately 2.5 million.The worldwide market for Scotland is purely based on Rangers and Celtic.The prize money for finishing in 17th position in the English Premier League (EPL) is 3.2 million! I.E. Just surviving and not getting relegated.The worldwide market for the EPL is based on Man U and lots and lots of 'hype' about the others!!!!!!!!!!! Here's the countries that would be involved in a proposed Atlantic League (AL) and their populations. (TV Audience does 'not' include potential worldwide markets).Country Population (Millions)Belgium 10.3Denmark 5.3Netherlands 16.7Norway 4.9Scotland 5.2Sweden 9.0Total = (TV Audience) 51.4That would make it the 4th largest in Europe with only Germany, France and Italy having greater populations. Bigger than Spain and England and with the potential for an AL 2 - I've looked at this and the potential for 2 leagues of 12 (with a split in the top one) and a play-off system in AL 2 (similar to English Championship) would be awesome.AL 1 might look something like:Team Stadium CapacityAIK Stockholm Rasunda Stadium 35,000Ajax Amsterdam Arena 52,960Anderlecht Constant Vanden Stock Stadium 26,361Brondby Brondby Stadium 29,000Celtic Celtic Park 60,832Club Brugge Jan Breydel Stadium 29,042FC Copenhagen Parken Stadium 38,065Feyenoord De Kuip 51,577Malmo Swedbank Stadion 24,000PSV Eindhoven Philips Stadion 35,119Rangers Ibrox Stadium 51,082Rosenborg Lerkendal Stadion 21,166 454,204AL 2 might include:FC TwenteGothenburgBraan BergenStandard LiègeHeartsAberdeenUtrechtHibernianDen HaagValarekiLyngbyDjugardensViking StavangerI would bet that all teams listed here (and there are more) would increase in size and support. The reality is that the 6 games played on a weekend, in AL 1 ,would have a combined attendance of 220 - 260,000 as opposed to 80,000 that currently make up the average SPL weekend attendance. 3 x as big!!!My own thoughts are that this league would have a massive potential and would get big clubs like ourselves and Ajax back to being bigger than the likes of Blackburn and Swansea!!!!!!!!!!... It's a fucking no brainer!... TV money and sponsorship would be rolling in (especially from Easy Jet!!!)...Thoughts/suggestions/reality checks etc are ALL welcome...WATP! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 OK so this one's not for the faint hearted so stop reading now if you think the Atlantic League is a crap idea. On the other hand if you think it 'is' a good idea then keep reading - I'd be delighted to hear any counter arguments/suggestions etc. I'll try not to bore everyone to death on this so here are a few FACTS!The prize money for winning the SPL is approximately 2.5 million.The worldwide market for Scotland is purely based on Rangers and Celtic.The prize money for finishing in 17th position in the English Premier League (EPL) is 3.2 million! I.E. Just surviving and not getting relegated.The worldwide market for the EPL is based on Man U and lots and lots of 'hype' about the others!!!!!!!!!!! Here's the countries that would be involved in a proposed Atlantic League (AL) and their populations. (TV Audience does 'not' include potential worldwide markets).Country Population (Millions)Belgium 10.3Denmark 5.3Netherlands 16.7Norway 4.9Scotland 5.2Sweden 9.0Total = (TV Audience) 51.4That would make it the 4th largest in Europe with only Germany, France and Italy having greater populations. Bigger than Spain and England and with the potential for an AL 2 - I've looked at this and the potential for 2 leagues of 12 (with a split in the top one) and a play-off system in AL 2 (similar to English Championship) would be awesome.AL 1 might look something like:Team Stadium CapacityAIK Stockholm Rasunda Stadium 35,000Ajax Amsterdam Arena 52,960Anderlecht Constant Vanden Stock Stadium 26,361Brondby Brondby Stadium 29,000Celtic Celtic Park 60,832Club Brugge Jan Breydel Stadium 29,042FC Copenhagen Parken Stadium 38,065Feyenoord De Kuip 51,577Malmo Swedbank Stadion 24,000PSV Eindhoven Philips Stadion 35,119Rangers Ibrox Stadium 51,082Rosenborg Lerkendal Stadion 21,166 454,204AL 2 might include:FC TwenteGothenburgBraan BergenStandard LiègeHeartsAberdeenUtrechtHibernianDen HaagValarekiLyngbyDjugardensViking StavangerI would bet that all teams listed here (and there are more) would increase in size and support. The reality is that the 6 games played on a weekend would have a combined attendance of 220 - 260,000 as opposed to 80,000 that currently make up the average SPL weekend attendance. 3 x as big!!!My own thoughts are that this league would have a massive potential and would get big clubs like ourselves and Ajax back to being bigger than the likes of Blackburn and Swansea!!!!!!!!!!... It's a fucking no brainer!... TV money and sponsorship would be rolling in (especially from Easy Jet!!!)...Thoughts/suggestions/reality checks etc are ALL welcome...WATP!Something needs to be done for the bigger teams in the smaller countries - only real issue I have is that I LIKE scottish football and taking 5-6 teams out may destroy the likes of St Johnstone, Dundee, Falkirk etc. If we had (say) 6 teams in the AL and without it being a mess could the lowest team be relegated back to their own country league? (although even as I type that it sounds gash!) We (us and THEM) are big fish in a small pond - but does the pond survive without us ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram 1,919 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Here's a serious point and it was touched on by Cruyff.Why don't we try and get back to the standard of player we used to produce like Souness,Jordan,Bremner,Baxter,Hay,Jardine,McGrain,Dalglish,Johnstone,Stein etc etc etcIf we improve our standard of player to a level that is good enough to qualify and compete in the CL then it makes the need for an Atlantic League redundant.And another thing. If an Atlantic League was to run in tandem with the SPL it would only add meaningless fixtures to an already crowded fixture list. If it was to replace the SPL completely then it would destroy Association Football all over Europe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Here's a serious point and it was touched on by Cruyff.Why don't we try and get back to the standard of player we used to produce like Souness,Jordan,Bremner,Baxter,Hay,Jardine,McGrain,Dalglish,Johnstone,Stein etc etc etc... and not one would be playing in the SPL if they were this quality! Sorting out the national production line of footballers helps the national team (and I am all for that) but the lack of cash would mean any real quality like above going EPL not SPL Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I sat on Silver! 1 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Something needs to be done for the bigger teams in the smaller countries - only real issue I have is that I LIKE scottish football and taking 5-6 teams out may destroy the likes of St Johnstone, Dundee, Falkirk etc. If we had (say) 6 teams in the AL and without it being a mess could the lowest team be relegated back to their own country league? (although even as I type that it sounds gash!) We (us and THEM) are big fish in a small pond - but does the pond survive without us ?There are a lot of things that I like about Scottish Football too. The only problem is there's nowhere to go in it - nothing to aspire to...Your points are valid and I had posted this on the assumption that all the association league clubs (inc clubs like Dundee, St Johnstome et al from here ) would be vying to win their own domestic league and get into a play-off for entry to AL 2 (structure would need some thought). The standard of football would rocket and there would be no more free lunches being provided by the Old Firm - if you're not big enough and don't have the backing, then get to fuck!!! SIMPLES! :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I sat on Silver! 1 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 ... and not one would be playing in the SPL if they were this quality! Sorting out the national production line of footballers helps the national team (and I am all for that) but the lack of cash would mean any real quality like above going EPL not SPLThanks for saying that. Any good young Scottish players are now heading south - it's sickening. We need to provide a platform that they would want to play in as well as a platform that the cream of Europe would want to play in also... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgr1991 303 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ... and not one would be playing in the SPL if they were this quality! Sorting out the national production line of footballers helps the national team (and I am all for that) but the lack of cash would mean any real quality like above going EPL not SPLDanny WIlson for example, showed the slightest bit of talent ande got hoovered up by an EPL side to rot in their reserves.My problem with it is away games. The club would have to get deals with airlines etc to get very cheap travel to even make it possible, and then their is the problem of accomadation and the sheer commitment of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillemBear 17 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 OK so this one's not for the faint hearted so stop reading now if you think the Atlantic League is a crap idea. On the other hand, if you think it 'is' a good idea, then keep reading - I'd be delighted to hear any counter arguments/suggestions etc. I'll try not to bore everyone to death on this so here are a few FACTS!The prize money for winning the SPL is approximately 2.5 million.The worldwide market for Scotland is purely based on Rangers and Celtic.The prize money for finishing in 17th position in the English Premier League (EPL) is 3.2 million! I.E. Just surviving and not getting relegated.The worldwide market for the EPL is based on Man U and lots and lots of 'hype' about the others!!!!!!!!!!! Here's the countries that would be involved in a proposed Atlantic League (AL) and their populations. (TV Audience does 'not' include potential worldwide markets).Country Population (Millions)Belgium 10.3Denmark 5.3Netherlands 16.7Norway 4.9Scotland 5.2Sweden 9.0Total = (TV Audience) 51.4That would make it the 4th largest in Europe with only Germany, France and Italy having greater populations. Bigger than Spain and England and with the potential for an AL 2 - I've looked at this and the potential for 2 leagues of 12 (with a split in the top one) and a play-off system in AL 2 (similar to English Championship) would be awesome.AL 1 might look something like:Team Stadium CapacityAIK Stockholm Rasunda Stadium 35,000Ajax Amsterdam Arena 52,960Anderlecht Constant Vanden Stock Stadium 26,361Brondby Brondby Stadium 29,000Celtic Celtic Park 60,832Club Brugge Jan Breydel Stadium 29,042FC Copenhagen Parken Stadium 38,065Feyenoord De Kuip 51,577Malmo Swedbank Stadion 24,000PSV Eindhoven Philips Stadion 35,119Rangers Ibrox Stadium 51,082Rosenborg Lerkendal Stadion 21,166 454,204AL 2 might include:FC TwenteGothenburgBraan BergenStandard LiègeHeartsAberdeenUtrechtHibernianDen HaagValarekiLyngbyDjugardensViking StavangerI would bet that all teams listed here (and there are more) would increase in size and support. The reality is that the 6 games played on a weekend, in AL 1 ,would have a combined attendance of 220 - 260,000 as opposed to 80,000 that currently make up the average SPL weekend attendance. 3 x as big!!!My own thoughts are that this league would have a massive potential and would get big clubs like ourselves and Ajax back to being bigger than the likes of Blackburn and Swansea!!!!!!!!!!... It's a fucking no brainer!... TV money and sponsorship would be rolling in (especially from Easy Jet!!!)...Thoughts/suggestions/reality checks etc are ALL welcome...WATP!I like the idea of an Atlantic League as laid out by you. I would be sorry to see the demise of Scottish football as we now know it, but sometimes the cure is a bitter pill. The set up we have right now is dying on it's feet...attendances are in free-fall, and personally I think it is more to do with the quality on offer rather than the recession. What is certainly true is that something radical needs to be done, or we will have NO senior football in this country worthy of the name. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior1690 6 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 think the atlantic league could be our saviour,and after todays judgement regarding the EPL and sky.would think sky will be looking around for somewhere else to monopolise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,286 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Problem is small countries don't tend to have glamorous clubs so Ajax are the only opposition who are European blue blood. It also has to be said having grown up in a small country we are all used to seeing football most weeks home and away if we wish and that being consigned to history would probably be a bigger loss than we perhaps realise Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 There are a lot of things that I like about Scottish Football too. The only problem is there's nowhere to go in it - nothing to aspire to...Your points are valid and I had posted this on the assumption that all the association league clubs (inc clubs like Dundee, St Johnstome et al from here ) would be vying to win their own domestic league and get into a play-off for entry to AL 2 (structure would need some thought). The standard of football would rocket and there would be no more free lunches being provided by the Old Firm - if you're not big enough and don't have the backing, then get to fuck!!! SIMPLES! :-)Yep thats the problem - how do you provide a feeder system,without just creating another Europa Cup/CL system ? .... thats where it sort of falls apart and I do think we owe something to Scotland as a football nation and not just abandonment (which is why I prefer AL to EPL)? ... or I suppose as there are 6 countries the AL just decides NOT to have even representation and the winners of each national league go into a play off to get in with 2 out and 2 in - but then each national league would face a mess if the teams that got relegated were not from the same country as those who get promotes - the feeder system needs loooked at to keep other football alive in these nations if AL is to work Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone 7,678 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 doesnt appeal to me mate, yes better than we have but not that appealing.Here's a thought back, if the Atlantic league is allowed it then means the top clubs in Europe ccould also move to form their own leage. Where would that leave the Atlantic league? The Europa League of TV revenue! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I sat on Silver! 1 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Danny WIlson for example, showed the slightest bit of talent ande got hoovered up by an EPL side to rot in their reserves.My problem with it is away games. The club would have to get deals with airlines etc to get very cheap travel to even make it possible, and then their is the problem of accomadation and the sheer commitment of it.A good point and not easy to overcome - especially the commitment thing. But where there's a will there's a way! People from Iceland come down here (Glasgow) on a Thursday to shop because they can save so much money - Glasgow and back on the same day. Icelandair provide the scheduled flight.Supporters clubs would need to be well organised in chartering flights and (you're right) the airlines would need to do their bit - but that lot like bums on seats (it helps their share price!) and I think they would react to it and provide a sensibly priced service. Aberdeen and Inverness aren't exactly cheap on petrol and I think the lure of a beautiful summer's day in Stockholm, Amsterdam or Copenhagen would be very very appealing as opposed to a cold, wet and windy winter's night at McDiarmid Park!... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa6995 3,644 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Why is Johan Cruyff an "old poof" and why does he deserve to be fucked exactly ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I sat on Silver! 1 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 doesnt appeal to me mate, yes better than we have but not that appealing.Here's a thought back, if the Atlantic league is allowed it then means the top clubs in Europe ccould also move to form their own leage. Where would that leave the Atlantic league? The Europa League of TV revenue!Yes that's true - but it would never happen. England aren't EVER going to allow anyone else in to their 'wee thing' and as for the rest - Italy Spain Germany - they're all getting a decent deal at the moment - guaranteed Champions League etc. So the prospect of any rival break away leagues are remote to say the least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis 277 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Here's a serious point and it was touched on by Cruyff.Why don't we try and get back to the standard of player we used to produce like Souness,Jordan,Bremner,Baxter,Hay,Jardine,McGrain,Dalglish,Johnstone,Stein etc etc etcIf we improve our standard of player to a level that is good enough to qualify and compete in the CL then it makes the need for an Atlantic League redundant.And another thing. If an Atlantic League was to run in tandem with the SPL it would only add meaningless fixtures to an already crowded fixture list. If it was to replace the SPL completely then it would destroy Association Football all over Europe.Because, quite simply, we wouldn't be able to keep that standard of player due to the finacial handicaps the SPL has thrust upon us.I have simply no doubts that we MUST either get out of Scotland or have a viable alternative in place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I sat on Silver! 1 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Why is Johan Cruyff an "old poof" and why does he deserve to be fucked exactly ?I'll get back to you on that one once I've all the facts - but I'm sure I heard something about him and the De Boer twins in a dirty dirty threesome!!!... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigyboy9 416 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 doesnt appeal to me mate, yes better than we have but not that appealing.Here's a thought back, if the Atlantic league is allowed it then means the top clubs in Europe ccould also move to form their own leage. Where would that leave the Atlantic league? The Europa League of TV revenue!The top clubs already just about have they're own league. It's called the UEFA Champions(and assorted 2nd, 3rd and 4th Placed) League. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac444 6 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The idea of Atlantic Leagues does appeal to me, but in all honesty I wouldn't want the set-up mentioned above, the split in the SPL is ridiculous and it wouldn't be any less ridiculous with the likes of Ajax and PSV and the like in it.IMO we need at least 18 teams in each division and if that means including the likes of Austria and Switzerland etc into the so be it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigyboy9 416 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Because, quite simply, we wouldn't be able to keep that standard of player due to the finacial handicaps the SPL has thrust upon us.I have simply no doubts that we MUST either get out of Scotland or have a viable alternative in place.IMHO Scotland will never again produce football player of this caibre in any great quantity. We're too small, with too many lazy parents, too much booze, too many TV/Computer games,with shite weather etc, etc etc. In short the country is f*cked, broken and I don't see how it can be repaired, certainly not by RFC or THEM. You only need to look at the fat bastard Salmond, great advert Eck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KojakMF 18 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I am in favour of a euro league of some kind but it does seem like a quick fix and perhaps major investment, across all clubs in Scotland would in the long run could be a better sound footing for the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigyboy9 416 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The idea of Atlantic Leagues does appeal to me, but in all honesty I wouldn't want the set-up mentioned above, the split in the SPL is ridiculous and it wouldn't be any less ridiculous with the likes of Ajax and PSV and the like in it.IMO we need at least 18 teams in each division and if that means including the likes of Austria and Switzerland etc into the so be it.Good call, we were getting pumped by teams from the above countries even when we could shite money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone 7,678 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Yes that's true - but it would never happen. England aren't EVER going to allow anyone else in to their 'wee thing' and as for the rest - Italy Spain Germany - they're all getting a decent deal at the moment - guaranteed Champions League etc. So the prospect of any rival break away leagues are remote to say the least.Have to say I disagree again, why wouldnt they?The clubs in England, Italy, Spain and Germany currently dont have enough money znd its only a matter of time until before the super clubs regroup to one league for ££, The Champions league is a dead duck now for the big boys, Man U and their fans appetite is waning for games against the likes of Basle, Benfica, Bolton, Wigan etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone 7,678 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The top clubs already just about have they're own league. It's called the UEFA Champions(and assorted 2nd, 3rd and 4th Placed) League.The champions league is dying mate, the fans of the super clubs are fed up watching the likes of Basel, Panathanikos, Bate etc. 2000 games to get near enough the same teams in the quartesr every year....zzzzzzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 1,011 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I love the idea of the Atlantic League. Much more than playing in the Premiership TBH. But for me, there would have to be 4 divisions, so all premier league teams get in, cos if they don't, then too many teams will die. Also some sort of play-off system where all the winners of the national leagues play for the place of the one that's been relegated in the Atlantic League division 4. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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