toonbear 3 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Losing two mil a month is mental. We sold off the catering contract so make nothing on food and drink on match days. The wage bill must be far too high. I worry we are going to see a poorer standard of player wearing the jersey when this is all over. I mean Whittaker gets 22k a week on a five year contract. Who sanctioned that? Rooney didn't get a five year contract at man u ffs Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54andcounting 627 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 184 guests, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Negri's Beard 1,423 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Exactly! I fail to see where the whole shock comes from! If anything today has been a positive, we are now down to our final 3 bids and by next week we will know the preferred bid and be well on our way to coming out of administration!There's no doubt that seeing that figure today is a shock to the system. Some will look at it and just immediately shit it, others will look more into the details and take a minute to think about it logically. Thankfully, the majority on here have done the latter.The media are no help. Leading into the Rangers story, Sally Magnusson confidantly claimed that Rangers "owed £134m" - utter shite Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Bear 72 363 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We'll some of the numptys blasting this thread out of the water should get their heads out of their arses and realise that, as bad as it seems, liquidation is now being discussed and is a real possability.They mentioned liquidation as far back as their first press conference. The administrator's need liquidation to be a possibility so it puts more pressure on creditors to accept a CVA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebooler 4,509 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Only a fool now would now disagree that liquidation is the best option for us.£55m owed to other clubs, losing £2m a month even WITH players dropping wages, a big tax case hanging over us.Even if a new owner comes in, i can see us just going into admin again and again.Unless some arab billionaire comes in, we'd be better off starting afresh.Id be happy to watch a weak rangers team for a few years, if it meant the club was being run correctly.So we owe £55m tae other clubs? Fuckin brilliant!We just go intae liquidation and take every other cunt in the league doon wae us.Sorted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Negri's Beard 1,423 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Losing two mil a month is mental. We sold off the catering contract so make nothing on food and drink on match days. The wage bill must be far too high. I worry we are going to see a poorer standard of player wearing the jersey when this is all over. I mean Whittaker gets 22k a week on a five year contract. Who sanctioned that? Rooney didn't get a five year contract at man u ffsWe will undoubtedly have a lower wage bill. We've had to do that for years. That is why it is important to produce good young players. Maybe we've just been paying too much for not a good enough standard of player for years?Anyway, everyone is on significantly reduced wages for the minute. Couldn't comment on player wages because frankly none of us have accurate figures. Giving him a long term deal means in normal circumstances we can get a decent transfer fee out of him though. I've got no problem with Whitts Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Negri's Beard 1,423 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 They mentioned liquidation as far back as their first press conference. The administrator's need liquidation to be a possibility so it puts more pressure on creditors to accept a CVA.I can't fathom how he thinks that people aren't aware of the possibility of Liquidation - people are ripping into him because of his reactionary nonsense that it is the only option Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Negri's Beard 1,423 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 So we owe £55m tae other clubs? Fuckin brilliant!We just go intae liquidation and take every other cunt in the league doon wae us.Sorted. Ha I do like that - maybe we still owe money for Terry Butcher and Chris Woods Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyc06 6,915 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 There's no doubt that seeing that figure today is a shock to the system. Some will look at it and just immediately shit it, others will look more into the details and take a minute to think about it logically. Thankfully, the majority on here have done the latter.The media are no help. Leading into the Rangers story, Sally Magnusson confidantly claimed that Rangers "owed £134m" - utter shiteThing is, we knew that the worst case scenario for big tax case was £75 million, we also knew about the smaller tax case and the ticketus deal... The three of them take us into the region of £115 million so to find out that our other debts take us up to a possible £134 really didnt surprise me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Bear 72 363 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I can't fathom how he thinks that people aren't aware of the possibility of Liquidation - people are ripping into him because of his reactionary nonsense that it is the only optionI agree, I think a CVA is the most likely outcome. The talk of liquidation - while it is a possibility - is also to encourage creditors to make a CVA more likely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,824 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Please can we have some calm. A CVA deal suits RFC and the creditors. In fact, it suits the creditors more than RFC. Creditors usually get paid more and get paid quicker with a CVA. Liquidation is a long and expensive process which gives creditors less in the long run and can be years later. The RFC debt is as follows:Trade creditors £5.5mTicketus £26.7mHMRC VAT & PAYE £14.4mSmall Tax Case £4.0m (agreed but final figure not exact yet)Debentures Club Deck £7.7mFootball creditors £1.1mThat totals £59.4m The big tax case could apparently be £75m although this is being vigorously disputed and is not certain to go against us. HMRC will do a deal on their debt as it is in their best interests. If they do a deal their debt will have to be reduced and a repayment plan agreed over (say) 20 years at £2m a year. That is just an example. Liquidation does not give HMRC anything like that size of repayment. Politically it is not a way that Salmond or Cameron would want to go. Both have been in touch with HMRC about our Club. If the Blue Knights take over, Ticketus drop £17m off the debt (although I expect they take an equity share). Their repayment would be negotiated with PM. I'm not sure about the Debenture holders though. Possibly be made an offer of an extension to their term or reduced season ticket prices. They can't be seen to be getting any preferential treatment so maybe the CVA will suit them on a cash basis. I think the Club should try to "sweeten" the deal for them after this is all over.I hate to owe the creditors money, especially the small suppliers, etc. I also hate owing other clubs cash. I wish we would pay off Inverness, Hearts and Celtic (yes especially them). I suspect they will all be paid off by the SPL using our share of sponsor & tv money. Not sure why we owe Chelsea money £238k, anybody know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinglassieLoyal 2 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Only a fool now would now disagree that liquidation is the best option for us.£55m owed to other clubs, losing £2m a month even WITH players dropping wages, a big tax case hanging over us.Even if a new owner comes in, i can see us just going into admin again and again.Unless some arab billionaire comes in, we'd be better off starting afresh.Id be happy to watch a weak rangers team for a few years, if it meant the club was being run correctly.Mate you are crazy, just got some good news about the possibility of coming out of administration at the end of the season. The money sounds a lot but Portsmouth were in the same situation 2 years ago, they owed around the same figure they managed to get together a CVA but for terrible owners they would have got through it. The Administrators need to make sure we have got the correct ownership to see us through this season and next and so on!! :uk: :uk: Glasgow Rangers will never die :uk: :uk: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Negri's Beard 1,423 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Thing is, we knew that the worst case scenario for big tax case was £75 million, we also knew about the smaller tax case and the ticketus deal... The three of them take us into the region of £115 million so to find out that our other debts take us up to a possible £134 really didnt surprise me!I guess for those who haven't completely indulged in the whole debt stuff, seeing such a figure is a bit of a shocker. No excuse for those still shiteing it though Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive 3,846 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Please can we have some calm. A CVA deal suits RFC and the creditors. In fact, it suits the creditors more than RFC. Creditors usually get paid more and get paid quicker with a CVA. Liquidation is a long and expensive process which gives creditors less in the long run and can be years later. The RFC debt is as follows:Trade creditors £5.5mTicketus £26.7mHMRC VAT & PAYE £14.4mSmall Tax Case £4.0m (agreed but final figure not exact yet)Debentures Club Deck £7.7mFootball creditors £1.1mThat totals £59.4m The big tax case could apparently be £75m although this is being vigorously disputed and is not certain to go against us. HMRC will do a deal on their debt as it is in their best interests. If they do a deal their debt will have to be reduced and a repayment plan agreed over (say) 20 years at £2m a year. That is just an example. Liquidation does not give HMRC anything like that size of repayment. Politically it is not a way that Salmond or Cameron would want to go. Both have been in touch with HMRC about our Club. If the Blue Knights take over, Ticketus drop £17m off the debt (although I expect they take an equity share). Their repayment would be negotiated with PM. I'm not sure about the Debenture holders though. Possibly be made an offer of an extension to their term or reduced season ticket prices. They can't be seen to be getting any preferential treatment so maybe the CVA will suit them on a cash basis. I think the Club should try to "sweeten" the deal for them after this is all over.I hate to owe the creditors money, especially the small suppliers, etc. I also hate owing other clubs cash. I wish we would pay off Inverness, Hearts and Celtic (yes especially them). I suspect they will all be paid off by the SPL using our share of sponsor & tv money. Not sure why we owe Chelsea money £238k, anybody know?Could that be their share for gate receipt from a friendly. Also the fact that Ticketus have shown their hand re a deal. what's to stop one of the other bidders trying to strike the same deal/ After all it obviously suits them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Negri's Beard 1,423 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I agree, I think a CVA is the most likely outcome. The talk of liquidation - while it is a possibility - is also to encourage creditors to make a CVA more likely.Agreed. Fact is, we are never going to owe £134m because if that absolute worst case scenario came about, we'd be fucked, get liquidated, and everyone would get fuck all. These are businesses, not a bunch of idiots, hence, deals will surely be agreed Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gersandy 594 Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 I can't fathom how he thinks that people aren't aware of the possibility of Liquidation - people are ripping into him because of his reactionary nonsense that it is the only optionShow me where i said it was the only option.I said its the best option.Everything is mounting up. At a time when were supposed to be upbeat, potential new owners coming in. Instead were made aware of the state of our debts, tax CASES, clubs due money (standard practise, but right now nothing about us is standard). One day TBK bid is punted out, the next theyre back in. Brian Kennedys in then out. Germans, yanks, singapore.It just seems to me like were at the same position pompey were in a couple of seasons ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMotor 2,208 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Losing two mil a month is mental. We sold off the catering contract so make nothing on food and drink on match days. The wage bill must be far too high. I worry we are going to see a poorer standard of player wearing the jersey when this is all over. I mean Whittaker gets 22k a week on a five year contract. Who sanctioned that? Rooney didn't get a five year contract at man u ffsIt might be small beer, but the statement makes it clear that this is a fallacy. We appear to have a sale and lease back agreement on the catering equipment but we are making money from the match day catering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Negri's Beard 1,423 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Show me where i said it was the only option.I said its the best option.Everything is mounting up. At a time when were supposed to be upbeat, potential new owners coming in. Instead were made aware of the state of our debts, tax CASES, clubs due money (standard practise, but right now nothing about us is standard). One day TBK bid is punted out, the next theyre back in. Brian Kennedys in then out. Germans, yanks, singapore.It just seems to me like were at the same position pompey were in a couple of seasons ago.Fair enough, you didn't say it was the only option but you implied that it was pretty much the only option we should be looking at which I and many others think is utter rubbish.You've still never said what you think of Tannochside Bear's post in which he lays out where all these figures are overblown. I also reckon you need to have a little look here. http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=216106&st=0&gopid=1059927121entry1059927121 - financial experts eh? Who needs emD&P, by law, had to reveal these figures to creditors. It's not new information and we shouldn;t be taken in by the muppet brigade that is the Scottish media Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMotor 2,208 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Show me where i said it was the only option.I said its the best option.Everything is mounting up. At a time when were supposed to be upbeat, potential new owners coming in. Instead were made aware of the state of our debts, tax CASES, clubs due money (standard practise, but right now nothing about us is standard). One day TBK bid is punted out, the next theyre back in. Brian Kennedys in then out. Germans, yanks, singapore.It just seems to me like were at the same position pompey were in a couple of seasons ago.And yet, everything in the administrator's statement points towards a CVA, including the fact that each of the bidders also expect to take that route.Interesting that you take the position that a potential liability is a de facto liability with no settlement option.You need to get to work on un-twisting your knickers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCPRANGERS1 2,997 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 liquidation to me should NEVER be an option, it might make perfect business sense but from a purely selfish point of vie i just dont ant it......our club is its history,it's why we all love it and argue about it i dont want to lose that a newco just wouldnt be the same!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sco22y 280 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 losing the league this year is hard, we may well lose it for a couple of years to come which will be even harder, but no way! should we lose our 54 titles where blood, sweat and tears binded us all together to who we are right now. no surrender. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWTC 2,247 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Show me where i said it was the only option.I said its the best option.Everything is mounting up. At a time when were supposed to be upbeat, potential new owners coming in. Instead were made aware of the state of our debts, tax CASES, clubs due money (standard practise, but right now nothing about us is standard). One day TBK bid is punted out, the next theyre back in. Brian Kennedys in then out. Germans, yanks, singapore.It just seems to me like were at the same position pompey were in a couple of seasons ago.You mate, spend far too far too much time listenin to your tim mates.If all else fails, brian kennedy, who was already well aware of the POTENTIAL debts, has stated he will make sure we are not liquidated, and i believe him. Im not hedging my bets on him, or saying he will take us over, im just saying your theory is absolute bollocks because brian kennedy says so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyc06 6,915 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 You mate, spend far too far too much time listenin to your tim mates.If all else fails, brian kennedy, who was already well aware of the POTENTIAL debts, has stated he will make sure we are not liquidated, and i believe him. Im not hedging my bets on him, or saying he will take us over, im just saying your theory is absolute bollocks because brian kennedy says so.And that's the bottom line... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrybutcher 23 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 no way should we give up our great history.Liquidation gets a big NO from me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gersandy 594 Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Can anyone clarify something.IF we were liquidated, what happens to our past honours?Im thinking of someone who knows how to answer that question. No guesses.Ive heard alot of people mention fiorentina and leeds utd. What are the facts surrounding it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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