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legalbeagle

Oldco / Newco - What's the difference?

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To everyone involved in this whole saga, and that includes us bluenoses too.

Could someone make a definitive decision on what the difference is between the oldco and newco?

We have some who believe the link to the past has been broken. (False)

We have some who believe that nothing has changed

Some who believe that we are free from debts and old responsibilities

Others who believe that we still must be punished

So, let's have a definitive status on it.

If we are the same, then we will be looking at sanctions for past crimes, if we are not, then what is the difference, and where does it start and end. Also, if we are the same, why on earth have we been put into Division 3, and why can't we just have our old SFA membership?

Too many people want to have their cake and eat it, mostly our enemies but a few of us who change our argument to suit ourselves as well.

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We're a newco when it suits the taigs and mhedia who bash us about lost history and being a new 'club' and that we've broken the link between old and new so therefore, 'new' Rangers.. However when it comes to the SFA, SPL, we're still very much connected to the oldco for the purposes of fucking us over with draconian punishments... These aresholes have a bone now and they won't let it go

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The oldco signed papes.

The newco doesn't

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Apparently starting at the bottom isn't a punishment just what a newco has to do so that being the case there can be no sanctions for a newco :sherlock:

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The media keep saying "newco Rangers" but still want to punish us for what the oldco done.

So there is no difference really.

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The paperazzi hated the oldco and they detest the newco.

So to sum up its a slightly different spelling but the same fucking hassle.

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It really is as simple as that.

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The Newco will be recognised with the Oldco's history, so I see no difference.

If it wears blue and plays home games at Ibrox, it's Rangers to me.

I was brought up to support the badge, not the PLC.

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No difference.

Honours

Main article: List of Rangers F.C. records and statistics#Honours

Domestic honours

1891,[175] 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1918, 1920, 1921, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1935, 1937, 1939, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2011

  • Scottish Cup: 33
1894, 1897, 1898, 1903, 1928, 1930, 1932, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1960, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1966, 1973, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1992, 1993, 1996,1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2009

1947, 1949, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997, 1999, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2008, 2010, 2011

European honours

1972

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If we legitimately want to say we are the same club as we always have been, we can't differentiate between newco/oldco when it suits. If it turns out we are guilty of the EBT nonsense, and the rules are followed to the letter, we will get titles stripped. This is just how I see it. Any titles stripped are the fault of David Murray, not the arseholes at the SFA. i may be missing something glaringly obvious, but otherwise, I expect (due to a deep hatred for David Murray more than any knowledge of tax law) we will lose some titles.

However..........I also expect us to be the 1st club to win 50 titles (again).

Remember, we will start in Division 3, so be prepared for a long war, with snipers having a pop at every opportunity, which we will also need to deal with, via better PR & media savvy.

Also, don't expect to win any Ramsdens Cup, even if we do manage to get past Brechin, we will not be equipped to take on Division 1 teams in later rounds.

Peterhead will probably beat us on the opening day.

None of this is said with any pleasure, but I feel we should prepare for a few shocks on the pitch before we have anything that resembles a settled team, or formation.

That said, it'll be character building, and we'll see what people are made of. I reckon we'll be fine, but expect to see a young team take a few defeats early on.

We just need to get behind them.

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The Rangers company is a newco.

The Rangers club is still the same and still scotlands biggest and most successful club.

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If we legitimately want to say we are the same club as we always have been, we can't differentiate between newco/oldco when it suits. If it turns out we are guilty of the EBT nonsense, and the rules are followed to the letter, we will get titles stripped. This is just how I see it. Any titles stripped are the fault of David Murray, not the arseholes at the SFA. i may be missing something glaringly obvious, but otherwise, I expect (due to a deep hatred for David Murray more than any knowledge of tax law) we will lose some titles.

However..........I also expect us to be the 1st club to win 50 titles (again).

Remember, we will start in Division 3, so be prepared for a long war, with snipers having a pop at every opportunity, which we will also need to deal with, via better PR & media savvy.

Also, don't expect to win any Ramsdens Cup, even if we do manage to get past Brechin, we will not be equipped to take on Division 1 teams in later rounds.

Peterhead will probably beat us on the opening day.

None of this is said with any pleasure, but I feel we should prepare for a few shocks on the pitch before we have anything that resembles a settled team, or formation.

That said, it'll be character building, and we'll see what people are made of. I reckon we'll be fine, but expect to see a young team take a few defeats early on.

We just need to get behind them.

EBT's did NOT provide us with a sporting advantage, they were used as a sort of player bonus type scheme.. giving guys like Ostantad 30 grand tax free cash didn't win us any titles

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EBT's did NOT provide us with a sporting advantage, they were used as a sort of player bonus type scheme.. giving guys like Ostantad 30 grand tax free cash didn't win us any titles

Exactly. And who could argue that these players didn't deserve bonuses for all the success they achieved on the pitch.

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If we legitimately want to say we are the same club as we always have been, we can't differentiate between newco/oldco when it suits. If it turns out we are guilty of the EBT nonsense, and the rules are followed to the letter, we will get titles stripped. This is just how I see it. Any titles stripped are the fault of David Murray, not the arseholes at the SFA. i may be missing something glaringly obvious, but otherwise, I expect (due to a deep hatred for David Murray more than any knowledge of tax law) we will lose some titles.

However..........I also expect us to be the 1st club to win 50 titles (again).

Remember, we will start in Division 3, so be prepared for a long war, with snipers having a pop at every opportunity, which we will also need to deal with, via better PR & media savvy.

Also, don't expect to win any Ramsdens Cup, even if we do manage to get past Brechin, we will not be equipped to take on Division 1 teams in later rounds.

Peterhead will probably beat us on the opening day.

None of this is said with any pleasure, but I feel we should prepare for a few shocks on the pitch before we have anything that resembles a settled team, or formation.

That said, it'll be character building, and we'll see what people are made of. I reckon we'll be fine, but expect to see a young team take a few defeats early on.

We just need to get behind them.

In the 10 year period the EBT scheme was in use, we only won 4 titles which hardly constitutes domination. (There are no accounts for last year so can't see anything about EBT payments) EBTs are not illegal. The scheme wasn't hidden from anyone as can be seen in the Club's audited annual accounts. The amounts paid through EBTs were only fractions of wages. Over the 10 years the average percentage of the money paid through EBTs was less than 16% of all wages, etc. Not every player went with the scheme and it should really be the players who owe any tax (if it is ever found to be due). RFC is being held accountable by HMRC for not deducting the tax from the players. Not all the EBTs were paid to players some payments were made to non-footballing employees and directors. The actual amount claimed by HMRC is approx £19m or £1.9m per year on average. (The rest of the HMRC claim is interest and penalties). To suggest for a minute that Rangers achieved some miraculous benefit from the operation of the EBT scheme is bordering on fantasy. The only people to benefit were the employees, players and staff, who joined the scheme. Perhaps that is why they gave it the very appropriately named EMPLOYEE BENEFIT Scheme. The clue was in the name. I also believe that we provide the SPL and SFA copies of our accounts on an annual basis and if that is correct then why did these bodies not bring this up at the outset? Where is the enquiry into the other lot for using EBTs?

I have no doubt that the SPL and SFA will try to remove our titles at the behest of our jealous enemies but as far as I and every other real Rangers fan is concerned, we will never remove these from our records. They were won fairly on the park. Nobody was bribed.

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To everyone involved in this whole saga, and that includes us bluenoses too.

Could someone make a definitive decision on what the difference is between the oldco and newco?

We have some who believe the link to the past has been broken. (False)

We have some who believe that nothing has changed

Some who believe that we are free from debts and old responsibilities

Others who believe that we still must be punished

So, let's have a definitive status on it.

If we are the same, then we will be looking at sanctions for past crimes, if we are not, then what is the difference, and where does it start and end. Also, if we are the same, why on earth have we been put into Division 3, and why can't we just have our old SFA membership?

Too many people want to have their cake and eat it, mostly our enemies but a few of us who change our argument to suit ourselves as well.

What past crimes?

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What past crimes?

Breaking timmys heart.

We are repeat offenders. :D

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Apart from diffrent reg no at companys house and new trading accounts the new company is the same as the old company. The problem the mhedia are having is that they misunderstand (usualy deliberetly) the diffrence between a football club formed in 1872 and a plc formed in 1899 which itself has gone through many changes, the last being when Whyte took over. Rangers Football Club has a proud and trophy laden history that wouldnt change even if a thousand new companys had been set up.

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In the 10 year period the EBT scheme was in use, we only won 4 titles which hardly constitutes domination. (There are no accounts for last year so can't see anything about EBT payments) EBTs are not illegal. The scheme wasn't hidden from anyone as can be seen in the Club's audited annual accounts. The amounts paid through EBTs were only fractions of wages. Over the 10 years the average percentage of the money paid through EBTs was less than 16% of all wages, etc. Not every player went with the scheme and it should really be the players who owe any tax (if it is ever found to be due). RFC is being held accountable by HMRC for not deducting the tax from the players. Not all the EBTs were paid to players some payments were made to non-footballing employees and directors. The actual amount claimed by HMRC is approx £19m or £1.9m per year on average. (The rest of the HMRC claim is interest and penalties). To suggest for a minute that Rangers achieved some miraculous benefit from the operation of the EBT scheme is bordering on fantasy. The only people to benefit were the employees, players and staff, who joined the scheme. Perhaps that is why they gave it the very appropriately named EMPLOYEE BENEFIT Scheme. The clue was in the name. I also believe that we provide the SPL and SFA copies of our accounts on an annual basis and if that is correct then why did these bodies not bring this up at the outset? Where is the enquiry into the other lot for using EBTs?

I have no doubt that the SPL and SFA will try to remove our titles at the behest of our jealous enemies but as far as I and every other real Rangers fan is concerned, we will never remove these from our records. They were won fairly on the park. Nobody was bribed.

very well put my friend

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The oldco signed papes.

The newco doesn't

The policy is back! (tu)

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What I don't get is Charles Green saying he wants fans to own up to fifty percent of the club (John Brown wants fan ownership too). If we are to buy shares in the club and not the company then why don't the shares carry over, a lot of bears lost out when the company went into administration.

If Green want us to buy into his company and our shares are dependent on the company remaining solvent then tell us, don't say we are buying a stake in the club.

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EBT's did NOT provide us with a sporting advantage, they were used as a sort of player bonus type scheme.. giving guys like Ostantad 30 grand tax free cash didn't win us any titles

Exactly

If found guilty(prob will since the charge of paying players out with contracts is pretty conclusive) then their is a whole list of punishments that's on offer to the SFA.

Now is paying players through a legal scheme which was fully covered in our accounts really enough to hit us with probably the 2nd most severe punishment on offer to them?

I'd say the logical punishment would be a fine, but then again we are in Scotland 2012

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EBT's did NOT provide us with a sporting advantage, they were used as a sort of player bonus type scheme.. giving guys like Ostantad 30 grand tax free cash didn't win us any titles

Your 100% right but this is the rhepublic of Scotland we are talking about, where normal fines and punishments do not apply where we are concerned.

It should have been the individuals concerned that broke the laws that should be feeling the pain of fines and punishments.

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What past crimes?

Well, at the moment, we have been found guilty of Bringing the Game into disrepute, but I believe the SFA asked that we took the rap for anything else that arose from/during the previous regimes. Believe me, I am not saying we are guilty of anything, and the bringing the game into disrepute thing is a crock.

It is more the point that we can't say 'that was the oldco, not us', yet, in other ways they treat us as a new entity, i.e. havoing to start in Division 3.

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Effectively we ran out of time to apply as a new club, even if we'd wanted to.

We need the SFA membership held by oldco, and that comes with the EBT case to answer and the disrepute penalty.

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