Celtic Employees & Tax Avoidance

[forlanssister 157]

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=218234&st=0&p=1059984607entry1059984607

[Professor_Chang 1,055]

Another Celtic thread. Super.

[Mckay 146]

Another Celtic thread. Super.

Its a thread based upon how corrupt they have been over the years, not glorifying the mhanky cunts in the slightest.

[Smile 26,600]

Not incredible at all, It doesn't fit the Agenda.

One of the Forum Taigs(trueblue 64) didn't like this comment.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

One of the Forum Taigs(trueblue 64) didn't like this comment.

trueblue64

[babybearinoz 10]

you are making the same mistake as all the reporters about this case!

I am sorry but if you re read my post you will see that the BTC and the S F A case(likely) hase got fk all to do with having an EBT scheme and everything about administration of the scheme or dual contracts!

if you fail to see what the issue is - then you will go down the road of thinking others are getting away with some thing.

also for what it's worth I think the BTC will bevfiund in our favour and that the SFA will not be able to prove dual contracts!

You have still failed to see the point so I'm guessing you didn't understand my comment or chose not to take it on board ...

Out of an entire page long article which generally is highlighting the bigoted moral response toward Rangers and the media bias in reporting toward Rangers.

quote from my post 'the inequality within scottish football regarding the moral stance taken over tax schemes and the media electing to and pursuing of issues in a bias manner.'

You

have failed to comment on any of the positive points regarding the article and have elected to focus wholly on one minor questionable point - quote from the original article 'given that the moral argument that the Celtic support has been made redundant, will the moral judges of Scottish Football apply some balance and pursue Celtic for answers on EBTs, and possible dual contracts?'

The point about the EBT use really is irrelevant in the grand central theme of the article, it looks to me that the article is designed to show the inequality and bias in scotland, as I said the central theme of the article was not to compare Rangers EBT use and dual contracts with tax schemes used by others.

You have a way of trying to invalidate any justification of wrong doing toward Rangers that posters come up with by tying their comments up in semantics.

For someone who is, as one poster so eloquently put it on previous occasion 'such a politician' you really cannot be that ignorant, surely.

Your time would be best spent focusing more on the positives that can defend Rangers and the unfounded indignities the bigots in scotland are trying to inflict rather than trying to dismantle the good others that 'care' for the club are trying to do.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

You have still failed to see the point so I'm guessing you didn't understand my comment or chose not to take it on board ...

Out of an entire page long article which generally is highlighting the bigoted moral response toward Rangers and the media bias in reporting toward Rangers.

quote from my post 'the inequality within scottish football regarding the moral stance taken over tax schemes and the media electing to and pursuing of issues in a bias manner.'

You

have failed to comment on any of the positive points regarding the article and have elected to focus wholly on one minor questionable point - quote from the original article 'given that the moral argument that the Celtic support has been made redundant, will the moral judges of Scottish Football apply some balance and pursue Celtic for answers on EBTs, and possible dual contracts?'

The point about the EBT use really is irrelevant in the grand central theme of the article, it looks to me that the article is designed to show the inequality and bias in scotland, as I said the central theme of the article was not to compare Rangers EBT use and dual contracts with tax schemes used by others.

You have a way of trying to invalidate any justification of wrong doing toward Rangers that posters come up with by tying their comments up in semantics.

For someone who is, as one poster so eloquently put it on previous occasion 'such a politician' you really cannot be that ignorant, surely.

Your time would be best spent focusing more on the positives that can defend Rangers and the unfounded indignities the bigots in scotland are trying to inflict rather than trying to dismantle the good others that 'care' for the club are trying to do.

FFS - my post has a go at the scottish press who have got it wrong about EBTs and Dual contracts - there is NO point whining on that Celtic also had EBT's IF they are NOT illegal.

The press are wrong on EBT's - the OP is wrong on EBTs - arguing about how things are positioned when the basis is wrongis just perverse. No one can do 'GOOD' if that good is based on a false premise.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Oh that's what it is, here was me thinking it was because you are a deluded irritant cunt !

As you know Something you probably don'y know - Cunts - are quite useful - and I quite like them myself!

[Guardian 4,281]

I would expect that the SPL will know that any attempt to strip titles will immediately prompt legal action AND shine a light into these murky dealings.

This time round it won't be a simple case of form a tribunal, announce Rangers guilty and start a kicking competition.

They'll be getting it back now. In spades.

We'll dig, and dig until we have a hole deep enough to drop the SPL and the SFA into, then fill it in forever.

[AlBear. 8,499]

This is ridiculous! The scum don't avoid tax. They give 50% of their wages to the tax man like all morally upstanding citezans. They then give 40% of their wages to the catholic church and give away the remaining 10% to republican political groups. They then spend the rest of their time robbing, stealing, encouraging paedophilia and generally being a fuckin nuisance to society until they have enough change scraped together to afford a bottle of bucky and a pack of rothmans. But they don't avoid tax, coz they have integrity

[Getstiffed 8,863]

This is ridiculous! The scum don't avoid tax. They give 50% of their wages to the tax man like all morally upstanding citezans. They then give 40% of their wages to the catholic church and give away the remaining 10% to republican political groups. They then spend the rest of their time robbing, stealing, encouraging paedophilia and generally being a fuckin nuisance to society until they have enough change scraped together to afford a bottle of bucky and a pack of rothmans. But they don't avoid tax, coz they have integrity

Post of the month.

[Smile 26,600]

I think you are peeing in the wind a bit. I've read something similar somewhere else - the individuals are Directors not Sellick the Club - mores the pity.

Quinn spoke to Murray about the dangers of EBTs and it was Middlesborough who were paying it and they informed the Tax folk apparently. They've covered their bases unfortunately.

As for the Keane thing - is there anything illegal in it? I doubt it.

I've accepted what's happened at our club and feel the need to get on with it. Murray to me is to blame and pointing the finger at them won't make what's happened to us any better.

If they've done anything they would have been caught by now????

Obsessed.

[Adoniram 1,919]

The media have no agenda you say?

They have had this information for quite a while now.

Ask yourself why NO ONE has thus far penned an article on this information asking the question why they are moralising to us when they did something similar.

[allcinaye 336]

On 9/9/2012 at 4:55 PM, AllyLesBleus said:

I think you are peeing in the wind a bit. I've read something similar somewhere else - the individuals are Directors not Sellick the Club - mores the pity.

Quinn spoke to Murray about the dangers of EBTs and it was Middlesborough who were paying it and they informed the Tax folk apparently. They've covered their bases unfortunately.

As for the Keane thing - is there anything illegal in it? I doubt it.

I've accepted what's happened at our club and feel the need to get on with it. Murray to me is to blame and pointing the finger at them won't make what's happened to us any better.

If they've done anything they would have been caught by now????

The truth is an inevitable fact that usually emerges with the passage of time.

Tic toc, 

[thehost 11,061]

lets be clear about this. these schemes weren't avoidance they were evasion

[kplfishtank 4,656]

How did this get bumped lol. 

[allcinaye 336]

12 minutes ago, kplfishtank said:

How did this get bumped lol. 

Just thought that this could be regarded as a topical subject due to recent events involving some of the people mentioned in the original post 

[Helicopter Sundae 5,977]

WOw thought I was having deja vu there, till I checked the date.

[RangersMedia 35,961]

The whole thing with secondary payments, is the rule exists - in spirit - for something that doesn't really apply to us.

The thing we got done for by the SFA, was a rule designed to stop small, part time, clubs from paying players with a small contract and big "brown envelope" payment - thus protecting the player should it go tits up (ie - we cant afford this, oh what contract is that you speak of, sir? The one that didn't officially exist?)

It annoys me how it is portrayed.

[toad 320]

Wonder if Lawwwell's pal at the SFA was a member of any such scheme!

 

[TED E BEAR 4]

On 9/9/2012 at 2:09 PM, Mckay said:

Rangers use of EBTs from 2001 to 2010 not only placed the club in great danger, but has allowed enemies of the club to moralise to all who will listen over “tax avoidance”

Despite the EBT scheme being a perfectly legal one used widely in England, the interpretations of it in Scotland by tax sponging student bloggers, and lazy biased journalists have been uniformly inaccurate.

Let’s be absolutely clear, the use of EBTs was legal, and could have been used by any other club in Scotland, and was in fact used by Celtic for one season.

When former Bank Of England Chief Brian Quinn took over the reins as Chairman, he stopped the Celtic using the facility directly.

That, however, does not ensure that both Celtic as a club and an employer can be completely excluded from questions on how payments are made to players and staff.

Bear in mind that the amnesty period for the SPL’s request for full information on player remuneration, since the SPL began has passed.

The questions over the remuneration for some players who have played for Celtic have largely not been asked, and those that have asked have met a wall of silence

Among them is Robbie Keane. The deal for Celtic to take him on loan was widely reported as being fully funded not by Celtic, but by majority shareholder Dermot Desmond

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Tottenham-striker-Robbie-Keane-completes-sensational-105k-a-week-deadline-day-Celtic-switch-article308999.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/01/robbie-keane-celtic-loan-tottenham

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/celtic-pull-off-shock-as-dermot-desmond-funds-deal-to-take-robbie-keane-on-loan-from-spurs-1-788793

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/2855014/This-is-galling.html?print=yes

It is also widely speculated that Juninho received an EBT while at the club. Was it declared to the SFA and SPL?

Other high earning stars such as Thomas Graveson Craig Bellamy and Roy Keane earned sums far higher than most of their team mates.

Did they have dual contracts? Why are the media not asking these questions?

Of course, these questions relate directly to the day to day business and management of Celtic the club, but what of employees of Celtic?

While Rangers have been in the depths of despair, the lack of sympathy from Celtic has been unsurprising, with some comment from Neil Lennon being uncalled for, but the depth of hatred and vindictiveness from their support has been on a scale even streetwise bears are taken aback by.

With blogs set up purely to highlight Rangers finances, and other Celtic blogs spending most of their time on the subject of Rangers, the common theme is that tax avoidance is wrong, and that perpetrators should be punished in the strongest terms.

Of course, as a tax payer myself I concur, except that I believe that all should be treated equally.

Equally, it should be noted that self-employed website owners, fanzine business owners, T shirt salesmen, and non UK Citizens are probably not the best people to lecture on tax avoidance, unless it’s from their experience of how to get away with it, or how they were made bankrupt.

So, while the agenda to punish Rangers has been apparently about morals, and about “doing the right thing”, those same hypocrites have completely ignored the direct questions to Celtic as a football club, and ignored the emerging news of Celtic Players and Directors participating in tax avoidance schemes.

What, you ask? Celtic players and staff avoiding tax?

Well it’s true.

Last week the Daily Mail reported on one such tax scheme, with one of the few names mentioned being the Celtic Manager Neil Lennon, who invested in the scheme while a player at Celtic

“Innovator One designed the plans so that if investors put in £20,000, they could get back £40,000 in tax relief immediately as a result of the partnerships they joined paying large sums for technology using loans from the bank.

But the taxman decided that since the loan money went round in a circle, being put on deposit with the bank that had originally made the loan, investors were eligible only for relief on the sums they had actually contributed.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-2153726/High-Court-rejects-100m-claim-tax-schemes-used-sportsmen.html#ixzz1wqMvnV3z

Following recent moves by HMRC to tighten up loopholes on Tax avoidance schemes the Independent reported that one such scheme called Eclipse 35 was now illegal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/exposed-the-hundreds-of-city-millionaires-in-film-tax-loophole-7676028.html

There are numerous other similar investment vehicles that do the same thing, with such schemes including “Inside Track 3 LLP”, and “Ingenious Film Partners 2 LLP”

A number of Celtic players and employees were named on another Daily Mail article on tax avoidance in relation to these schemes

Director Searches on Lennon, Mjallby, Bellamy, Petta, Hartson and Sylla are interesting

Other members of Inside Track 3 include Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell and Celtic Financial Director Eric Riley

http://www.cdrex.com/peter-thomas-lawwell/598617.html

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/900009258

The full board for this scheme is below.

http://www.cdrex.com/inside-track-3-llp/board-2388241.html

So, at the time of joining, none of the people involved appear to have done anything illegal.

Now, though, after the Eclipse 35 ruling, they will have to withdraw from these schemes.

Now, given that the moral argument that the Celtic support has been made redundant, will the moral judges of Scottish Football apply some balance and pursue Celtic for answers on EBTs, and possible dual contracts?

Will they then condemn the practices of senior Celtic staff and players for participating in tax avoidance schemes?

If not, are they just hypocrites?

What of the SFA and SPL boards, standing in judgement on Rangers, while board members Lawwell and Riley themselves utilise tax avoidance schemes

Will said Directors resign from the respective boards in shame?

Sauce: http://williampoole.wordpress.com/2012/06/04/celtic-employees-tax-avoidance/

Sorry if already posted, couldn't find it before.

PZJ, the football tax havens and numerous others have been highlighting this for ages,along with exposing Dermot Desmond's iffy business practices.  

[centenarystand 2,227]

There is not much in the EBTs and what this mob are up to yet the media have no interest.

Just shows the actual damage that BBC Scotland programme done to Rangers.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

On 11/11/2016 at 6:29 PM, allcinaye said:

The truth is an inevitable fact that usually emerges with the passage of time.

Tic toc, 

As Don Sutherland says in JFK "people are suckers for the truth" so let's hope that's the case in Scotland  

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

1 hour ago, Thermopylae said:

As Don Sutherland says in JFK "people are suckers for the truth" so let's hope that's the case in Scotland  

Disagree with that mate - the scandal over Jim Torbett and big jock not reporting it would have been outed by now - at least by those victims, or those victims mothers. Surely they must know.

[Rangersfansmediawatch 1,055]

1 hour ago, WATP-FOREVER said:

Disagree with that mate - the scandal over Jim Torbett and big jock not reporting it would have been outed by now - at least by those victims, or those victims mothers. Surely they must know.

Torbett was sent to prison,Billy McNeil said it was an open secret what was going on and the meeting in the car park between Stein and a Celtc director telling Stein to keep the good name of Celtc out of it is widely known.

Do you really think victims mothers would go running to the media over what happened to their sons ?

The ones who haven't been named are no doubt wanting to just get on with their lifes and trying to put what happened behind them,I would imagine it wouldn't be an easy thing for a grown man to say he had been abused over and over by another grown man,Especially one who was in a position of trust.

Can you imagine the living hell that person would go through if they came out and made accusations against those at Celtc or Stein for that matter.. Think how difficult it must be for anyone to come forward who has been abused not just by Torbett but anyone who has suffered child abuse.

This nonsense of using people who were abused to point score needs to stop,Those hoping that the SFA punish Celtc are best advised not to hold their breath as it will never happen.

Another point which Celtc fans like to point out is also nonsense... They claim that it was nothing to do with Celtc,If it was nothing to do with Celtc then Stein wouldn't have been able to throw Torbett out as according to the unwashed Celtc boys club were nothing to do with Celtc.

The thing that has never sat right with me over all this has been the fact Torbett was thrown out by Stein because of what was going on,Stein then left and they allowed a known predator back in to carry on what he was doing previous and then awarded a contract to a company(The Trophy centre) Torbett was involved with.

The Kelly's have a lot more to answer for than Stein or anyone else.