League Reconstruction - what you think?

[Westy 0]

This was sent to me by a friend:

Here’s Davie Ross’s suggestions for league reconstruction: (the 16-10-18 option had been quoted)

Seems a crazy set-up to me and one the SPL will never accept, given there needs to be an 11-1 vote in favour. All manner of nutty suggestions seem to be out there, including a three-way split. Including the OF reserve teams is just plain wrong. Yes, other countries include second elevens in their set-ups but not just those of the two biggest clubs. This will though be attractive to clubs in the lowest tier who can expect matches against OF reserves to provide their biggest crowds and certainly far in excess of anything which would be attained by the addition of two new clubs to the league.

That doesn’t mean it’s right.

We still don’t know what the 16-team proposal means. Presumably not just 30 games a season. Too easy, too simple and too logical for those dreaming up these proposals. I imagine there will be some kind of a split involved. 8-6, 7-7, or 6-8- The lowest level would only play each other twice as that would entail 34 games but presumably the middle division sides would still have to meet four times a season to achieve a reasonable number of games.

So we would have a top division where sides met either three or four times a season, a middle one where they met four times and a bottom one where they met twice. Crazy. Then again this is the league that brought you lopsided home and away games, 20 for some, 19 for others, for almost two decades. And it is being opposed by a league which will give some teams 18 home games and others 20 and can’t publish a fixture list for the season, not even along the lines of Team 1 v Team 6, or Team 7 v Team 12 for the post-split fixtures.

FWIW I for one have no objections to three divisions though I think two national leagues with regional structures below them is more logical. But I would make it two divisions of 16, as existed in the first decade after WW2 when, perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not, the game was at its most competitive in Scotland.

An imaginary set-up for 2015-16 along those lines could be as follows. For 2014-15 no relegation from the SPL and automatic promotion for the top two from the 1st division. Play-offs between sides 3rd-6th for the two remaining top flight places. The six remaining 1st division sides all to enter level 2 in 2015-16. The top eight in the current 2nd plus the 3rd division champions to enter level 3 with play-offs between the bottom two in the 2nd and sides 2-3 in the 3rd for the remaining level 3 place. The ten unsuccessful sides, including play-off losers, to be redistributed to regional leagues.

Here’s the hard part. Deciding what is a region, how many clubs and how to establish a pyramid. There is one obvious feeder league and that’s the Highland League. I suggest two others, East & North, & West & South. Assuming that The Rangers have managed to climb up the leagues by then and imagining the current 3rd division plus bottom of 2nd comprises the ten clubs excluded from the national structures then redistribution would go as follows:

Elgin City & Peterhead return to the Highland League

Stranraer, Annan Athletic Queen’s Park, Clyde to W&S

Montrose, Berwick Rangers, East Stirlingshire, Stirling Albion to E&N

The required quota for a feeder league would be a minimum of 16 for a 30 game season. The Highland League would now have 20, more than enough.

How then do you make up the numbers for the other regions? I suggest adding both senior and junior sides. I realise many junior teams are happy where they are but some will want to test themselves at a higher level. The only fair way to do it is to award equal status to senior and junior non-leagues.

Looking at last season’s tables as a guide and assuming every eligible club would want to enter the pyramid and have facilities capable of doing so we would add to the E&N region as follows:

EoSL: Stirling University, Spartans, Whitehill Welfare, Edinburgh University, Edinburgh City, Gretna 2008

East Juniors: Bonnyrigg Rose, Hill of Beath Hawthorn, Linlithgow Rose

North Juniors: Hermes, Stonehaven, Dyce

I have allocated six senior & six junior despite the anomalies such as Gretna and what I think most people would see as the stronger of the two junior leagues (east in case you were wondering) only having the same representation as the weaker one. But I can’t think of any other way to do it. When regional leagues were in existence in England between the 1920s-1950s the Southern was generally regarded as much stronger than the Northern and there were many geographical anomalies but promotion and relegation remained equal.

In the west the additional clubs would be easier to allocate. Six from the SoSL & 6 six from the West Juniors.

SoSL: Dalbeattie Star, Threave Rovers, Heston Rovers, St Cuthbert Wanderers, Newton Stewart, Mid-Annandale

West Juniors: Irvine Meadow, Petershill, Auchinleck Talbot, Clydebank, Beith, Ashfield

Again, there is an obvious disparity with the juniors apparently stronger. However these things generally sort themselves out over time. How many former Tayside teams in the East Juniors Premier today as compared to the start?

How would it work from 2015-16 onwards?

First, the return of the League Cup to sections. But based on geography, thus ensuring derby matches for local rivals not in the same division (St Mirren & Morton, Kilmarnock & Ayr United) and also giving TV companies their precious four OF games per season. It would – or should – also guarantee four Edinburgh & Dundee derbies per season as well.

This should make the idea of returning to playing each other just twice in the league more palatable for the bigger clubs. Except Aberdeen, and screw them as they seem to be behaving like Rangers proxy SPL vote at the moment.

So, a 30 game top division. Bottom two automatically relegated. Top two in Level 2 automatically promoted. Third last in Level 1 to play-off against teams 3-5 in Level 2. Bottom three in Level 2 automatically relegated. Winners of regional leagues automatically promoted. Fourth last in Level 2 to play-off against runners-up in regional leagues.

Composition of regional leagues to be amended as necessary at the end of the each season. Remaining senior & junior leagues to merge/split as appropriate so as to form own part of pyramid.

Simples, eh?

[JM1872 3,705]

Jesus Christ, read half way through that then decided I have other things to get on with.

However, what I will contribute is that Scottish Football has to change. The SPL has to go, the SFA has to go. We do not need 2/3 governing bodies. Merge them all into one, get Rhegan and Dhoncaster to fuck, English people (no disrespect) running the Scottish game? Not logical for me.

We need people, non-biased Scottish people at that, because let's not kid ourselves on the game is stinking with it, who know what their doing and have great ideas for the game to come in and revitalise the nations football.

I don't care where we play in it. By all means, restructure and keep us where we are come reorganising time whether it be the top flight or the "Championship" or whatever it will be called.

A bigger top flight and regional lower leagues to encourage fans to travel and see their team play. Lower ticket prices to bring in more fans as well - some teams would make more money by lowering their prices and bringing in more fans than they currently do.

There needs to be an unbiased look at restructuring because the current people in charge are too narrow minded to say: "Hiy, this needs to change for the long term benefit" and are too busy looking after their current position.

I don't care about other teams, or what they will or won't get out of restructuring the game. If nothing changes though, there is a chance they won't be here shortly.

So aye, bigger top flight, sort out the lower leagues. Just sort it all out. It's now or never in my opinion. Like I said, don't care where we play in the new set-up whether it be top flight or where we competitively should be (going by promotions) but just change it.

[Big Al 55 9,241]

Yeah got fed up half way through as well.

The 16 team league suggestion from the SFL included a new cup competition to make up the number of games, no split as far as I'm aware.

I worry about the quality of the clubs which would make the top league up to 16. However I still think its the way ahead, just be torture until those clubs earn a bit more money and can improve their standard.

[Blueshoff 11,750]

Change the leasgues and numbers any way you want.

The TV (where the money is generated) want as many OF games as possible so that will be a driver for the top league.

But the area to be most concerned about is the cabal who are running the game - Liewell, Rhegan and Dumbcaster. This is the part that needs an overhaul.

[JM1872 3,705]

Yeah got fed up half way through as well.

The 16 team league suggestion from the SFL included a new cup competition to make up the number of games, no split as far as I'm aware.

I worry about the quality of the clubs which would make the top league up to 16. However I still think its the way ahead, just be torture until those clubs earn a bit more money and can improve their standard.

For a top flight, without us, I'd say you would be looking at:

Sheep FC

Saville FC

Dundee

Scumdee United

Hearts

Hivs

Inverness

Kilmarnock

Motherwell

Ross County

St. Midden

St. Johnstone

Dunfermline

Partick Thistle

Hamilton

Raith Rovers?

Then bla bla bla and so on.

I wouldn't be fooled by the quality these teams coming up possess, they are all very well capable of competing with the current top flight teams.

I'm also all for giving a fairer distribution of TV revenue. Us and Scumtic have enough resources to make up for it and giving the other Club's some more money would allow them to pay more money for players wages etc, thus increasing gradually the quality.

When we get back in Sky will be there with the millions and Scottish football, in my opinion, will be better again.

No matter what anyone says, it has to be changed!

[bluenosebrad 452]

But the area to be most concerned about is the cabal who are running the game - Liewell, Rhegan and Dumbcaster. This is the part that needs an overhaul.

I think the quality of teams will not be an issue as the 1st division is the best at the mo in my opinion, its always difficult to tell who will win it.

Totally agree with the above get these clowns OUT and move Scottish football forward and lets put Thomson back in his little box again

P.s I would have Morton that group as they away carry a decent crowd

[Big Al 55 9,241]

For a top flight, without us, I'd say you would be looking at:

Sheep FC

Saville FC

Dundee

Scumdee United

Hearts

Hivs

Inverness

Kilmarnock

Motherwell

Ross County

St. Midden

St. Johnstone

Dunfermline

Partick Thistle

Hamilton

Raith Rovers?

Then bla bla bla and so on.

I wouldn't be fooled by the quality these teams coming up possess, they are all very well capable of competing with the current top flight teams.

I'm also all for giving a fairer distribution of TV revenue. Us and Scumtic have enough resources to make up for it and giving the other Club's some more money would allow them to pay more money for players wages etc, thus increasing gradually the quality.

When we get back in Sky will be there with the millions and Scottish football, in my opinion, will be better again.

No matter what anyone says, it has to be changed!

Who says Sky will be interested with only 2 OF games?

But I agree change is required desperately, there are no more chances though. The format has to be correct.

[AlBear. 8,499]

The 11-1 vote is irrelevent. If the spl teams don't want to be apart of Scottish Football reconstruction then fuck them. Take the SFL teams and promote the best of the rest and reconstruct the new SFL.

If the spl teams are happy to stagnate and die one at a time, hoping they're not the next one, then that suits me.

[JM1872 3,705]

Who says Sky will be interested with only 2 OF games?

But I agree change is required desperately, there are no more chances though. The format has to be correct.

I think Sky will be happy to settle with 2 OF games from league fixtures, considering if money improves and quality improves they would be feisty affairs and be more important in the title race. If there is a split of some sort then 3 possibly... and when we return to the top Scottish Cup finals etc. It all depends on how it is going to be worked. As much as I hate it, us and them are the selling point of Scottish football... I'd rather we weren't placed side by side with them but that's the way it is.

Also, if the quality improves all round Hibs & Hearts etc could be entertaining for neutrals and what not.

The problem is, too many people look at their own interests when in actual fact, it's the fans that should be the focus. Getting full stadiums around the country as much as possible should be high on the list and, like German football, the rest should take care of itself with any luck

No matter what happens, us and them will always be top of the pile but it's all about making it more entertaining to the fans and getting them back in the stadiums.

[loyalfollower 1,543]

I think we should focus on winning this league at a canter and re branding our football philosophy. Green and Walter will deal with the parasites from SPL and sfa and im sure they won't sell us short

[Madina 3,802]

Scottish football is in the doldrums, it would still be if there was a league reconstruction IMO. The phrase "you cant polish a turd" springs to mind

[Sea Bear 283]

From the official site, also looking at sections for the League Cup.

THE MEMBER clubs of The Scottish Football League unanimously backed proposals for a wide-ranging restructure of league football in a 16-10-16 format and a change to the League Cup.

The plan, revealed by Chief Executive David Longmuir and discussed at a meeting at Hampden today, will involve more play-offs for promotion and relegation and would mean an amalgamation with the SPL.

The format will introduce a 16-team top flight which has two automatic relegation places and a further relegation place for the loser of a play-off between the 13th and 14th placed teams. Each side will play 30 games in the standard season.

The second tier, called the Championship, comprises 10 sides, two of which will be automatically promoted and a third side will go up after a play-off between the third and fourth placed teams.

There are two automatic relegation places and the eighth placed team faces a play-off with the third, fourth and fifth placed side from the third tier.

The bottom side in the three leagues would play the best side from a pyramid structure to keep their league status.

A winter break for the Premier Division is incorporated into the proposal.

The League Cup is also to be revamped with sections coming back into play for the first time since the 1983/84 season, although this time the format would be different.

The bottom 20 clubs would play a knockout round with the winners joining the 22 other clubs in eight sections of four.

These sections would seeded and teams would play each other once with the 16 higher ranked clubs playing two home games and one away with gate receipts for all matches shared.

The top two from each section would qualify to the last 16 and the knockout stage to the final.

[AlBear. 8,499]

The format will introduce a 16-team top flight which has two automatic relegation places and a further relegation place for the loser of a play-off between the 13th and 14th placed teams. Each side will play 30 games in the standard season.

The second tier, called the Championship, comprises 10 sides, two of which will be automatically promoted and a third side will go up after a play-off between the third and fourth placed teams.

There are two automatic relegation places and the eighth placed team faces a play-off with the third, fourth and fifth placed side from the third tier.

The bottom side in the three leagues would play the best side from a pyramid structure to keep their league status.

A winter break for the Premier Division is incorporated into the proposal.

That means a 10 team league could be changing 6 teams each season weird but I think I like that. Definitely not dull.

[fyfe 19]

The new proposal annoys me purely because of the ridiculous names. "Premier League", "Championship" and "First Division". Aren't they all the same thing? "Premier division" and "first division" literally mean the same thing. Stupid.

[Sea Bear 283]

There is more to follow I believe.

But yes some interesting thoughts, as you say big shake up for the "championship"

[Ricky_ 893]

the writing is on the wall. There's too many clubs. The only way we could come close to having a reasonable Premier League would be if clubs joined up, to make bigger clubs. Like Kilmarnock, Ayr, & any other team from Ayrshire. Rather than having a bunch of tiny wee pishy teams from Ayrshire, the whole of Ayrhisre needs to get behind 1 team in order for it to be of appropriate size for a premier league. But as it stands, they all hate each other & the majority of Ayrshire support Rangers. Same with the likes of St. Midden & Partick thistle. Glasgow already has 2 huge clubs, no room for any other jokers like those 2.

[Hilly86 701]

Scottish football is in the doldrums, it would still be if there was a league reconstruction IMO. The phrase "you cant polish a turd" springs to mind

Precisely - or, "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic" was another. How exactly does moving lots of shite teams with players who can't play football improve things?

[Ricky_ 893]

Precisely - or, "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic" was another. How exactly does moving lots of shite teams with players who can't play football improve things?

[8watp8 254]

Longmuirs suggestion is top notch, i actually want hearts to join us in sfl as then we could just say fuck the spl and create our own league structure, the sfl would have all the power and soon the spl will be pleading to be part of longmuirs leagues.

[Gaffbear 4,096]

Yes Scottish football needs sorting out but instead of just rearranging the leagues we need to do what the Germans did.

We need Football academies at all major clubs and have 2 national ones so good players can filter through the leagues.

Cut prices for games so we have full houses every week contributing to atmosphere and revenue and making it more attractive to TV.

Stop all the bureaucracy that stops fans singing and dancing and waking flags

Get standing areas back

Allow beer to be sold 1 hour prior to kick off and at half time.Needs to be policed properly.

Bring back the winter break

Then sort the size of the leagues out.

[Jelavic191 4,398]

the writing is on the wall. There's too many clubs. The only way we could come close to having a reasonable Premier League would be if clubs joined up, to make bigger clubs. Like Kilmarnock, Ayr, & any other team from Ayrshire. Rather than having a bunch of tiny wee pishy teams from Ayrshire, the whole of Ayrhisre needs to get behind 1 team in order for it to be of appropriate size for a premier league. But as it stands, they all hate each other & the majority of Ayrshire support Rangers. Same with the likes of St. Midden & Partick thistle. Glasgow already has 2 huge clubs, no room for any other jokers like those 2.

I said this months ago!!

There could be a league of 16 or so teams which have merged and played in a similar style to the MLS or something!

Who's to say that if the two Dundee teams merged then they couldn't become a decent outfit which could attract better players, attract crowds of 15,000 and actually challenge for the league?

or a team from Lanarkshire where Motherwell, Hamilton, Clyde, Airdrie and Albion Rovers are all close together.

Something more radical than just pyramid and bigger leagues is needed!!

[Dietspam 733]

I said this months ago!!

There could be a league of 16 or so teams which have merged and played in a similar style to the MLS or something!

Who's to say that if the two Dundee teams merged then they couldn't become a decent outfit which could attract better players, attract crowds of 15,000 and actually challenge for the league?

or a team from Lanarkshire where Motherwell, Hamilton, Clyde, Airdrie and Albion Rovers are all close together.

Something more radical than just pyramid and bigger leagues is needed!!

All very well for us to say that, but you'd be merging rival teams and they would no longer exist. Think of their history, however little that maybe. It's like saying merge Rangers and Celtic to mount a serious Champions league challenge . I'd like to see these smaller teams merge, but there is no way it is going to happen.

[Dutchy 1,200]

The plans I read about on the Rangers site proposed by Longmuir sound really good to me.

The best thing about it is there will be a pyramind system in place and that should get rid of a lot of the dross from the bottom. The multiple play offs also add to the excitement as teams will have something to fight for right to the end of the season.

Consideering sky ae investing money in Scottish football, not a lot admittedly, without any OF game at the moment shouldn't stop them if there is just 2 a season. It wasn't that long ago there were 7 OF games and that just proved to be battle ground for religious bigotry.

BTW, has lemon ever told us what Ally whispered in his ear? He told us all he would after they won the title, but I can't remember any great revelation, other than the media telling us how intelligent he was. lol lol lol

[Columbo 588]

30 games a season seems too little and if we had a split following the 30 games a split of 8-8 or 9-7 whatever it would still result in Celtic/Rangers playing each other an odd number of times meaning either we'd have to go to their ground twice in a season or they'd have to come to Ibrox twice which would hardly do much for the so called 'sporting integrity' everyone keeps harping on about

[DAVIE8CH 296]

why not a take over of the sfa and then ask the diddy teams in the sphell to re-apply to join us in the sfl run scottish football leagues obviously starting in the bottom tier