Finally a Sheriff speaks out about the naughty song law!

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,546]

Now I know it features a trial about one of them BUT, the comment from the Sheriff that the Police can't give opinion evidence about the context of songs and that the legislation is badly drafted is of use to us.

Now the Crown are considering an appeal which means the most learned Judges of the land will consider this stupid knee jerk law and may help us further.

If ANY bears you know are facing trial etc under this legislation, make sure they tell their lawyers about this development.

The Sheriff also says that Flower of Scotland falls foul of the law and describes it as "mince" This guy seems to understand where we are coming from.

Watch this space as it may be that the law will get changed one way or another after all!

Oh yeah, and he Blames the Schools too

Crown considers appealing Celtic fan's not guilty verdict over Dundee disorder charge

Crown considers appealing Celtic fan's not guilty verdict over Dundee disorder charge

Prosecutors are considering appealing the not guilty verdict in the trial of a Celtic fan caught singing a pro-terrorist song at Dundee's Dens Park.

Dion McLeish was cleared at Dundee Sheriff Court of inciting public disorder during Dundee's Boxing Day match against Celtic.

Sheriff Richard Davidson said the legislation under which he was being tried was "horribly drafted".

The Crown Office is considering an appeal over the verdict.

Mr McLeish, 20, from Clydebank, was filmed by police officers at Dundee's Dens Park ground on Boxing Day singing the song "Roll of Honour", which celebrates IRA and INLA hunger strikers during the Troubles.

But Sheriff Richard Davidson ruled during the trial last week that police officers could not give "opinion" evidence that the song was linked to proscribed terrorist organisations, and then described the new anti-sectarianism legislation McLeish was tried under as "horribly drafted".

The Crown Office and Scottish government have insisted the laws were "working well" and "taking a hard line on sectarianism".

Denominational schools

The Scottish government said the legislation would be reviewed at the end of the coming football season, with a report to go before the Scottish Parliament by the following summer.

Sheriff Richard Davidson

Prosecutors have asked for reports to be prepared as they consider an appeal against the ruling in Mr McLeish's case, in which the sheriff stated sectarianism should be tackled by abolishing denominational schools.

A Crown Office spokesman said: "The Crown notes the sheriff's decision in this case. Crown counsel has asked the procurator fiscal for a report in order to consider an appeal in light of the sheriff's comments."

Sheriff Davidson, speaking during a legal debate at Mr McLeish's trial, criticised the laws.

He said: "In this context I think that potentially those who attend Murrayfield and sing Flower of Scotland - there might be a problem."

Not concerned

Referring to the legislation, Sheriff Davidson said: "Somehow the word mince comes to mind."

Mr McLeish was one of four fans who had been arrested at the match, with a further supporter reported to the procurator fiscal.

Finding the 20-year-old not guilty, Sheriff Davidson added: "I've been attending football matches since 1957 and there is nothing I've seen in this particular case that would cause me the slightest concern.

"Sectarianism is a blight on Scottish society, but this isn't the way to tackle it. The way to tackle it is to do away with denominational schools.

"If they can proscribe a list of songs which people are banned from singing, they will find the courts are full and the football grounds are empty."

[ianb1547 3,767]

i have to agree with most of what you say...but he didnt quite say Flower of Scotland fell foul of the law - as it is written.

I think his comments sum up what many footy supporters....of all denominations.........actually think.

his best line was about football stadia being empty, whilst law courts would be full.

more power to his elbow.

i dont think many within the newly-formed (anti)establishment will agree with him tho. mores the pity.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,546]

Well you think that but a fair few Glasgow Sheriffs don't like the law much either, no one does.

This particular Sheriff though is not backwards at coming forwards and he is known for saying stuff like this.

The more guys like him on the bench then the sooner we will get fair and just laws for football fans!

Since when did Pie faced Salmond regularly go to the football or MacAskill the destroyer of the Scottish Justice System?

This law was too rushed and had it been properly consulted on, would never have gone through.

If this does go to the Appeal Court and maybe even further then it could be embarrassing for the Scottish Nazi Party and it is already an embarrassment for the cops since they can't give opinion evidence.

The bears needs to know, especially those two guys who got 5 year banning orders in Montrose!

[mason boyne 40]

i have to agree with most of what you say...but he didnt quite say Flower of Scotland fell foul of the law - as it is written.

I think his comments sum up what many footy supporters....of all denominations.........actually think.

his best line was about football stadia being empty, whilst law courts would be full.

more power to his elbow.

i dont think many within the newly-formed (anti)establishment will agree with him tho. mores the pity.

he did actually, he did say all of what the op said, down with the kafflic/muslim schools of hate. and he's a proddy

[Blumhoilann 6,712]

Yes indeed,what of those already jailed/fined?They must have a case for appeal but then again,they're Bears......sorry I've developed a chip.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

he did actually, he did say all of what the op said, down with the kafflic/muslim schools of hate. and he's a proddy

Your posting some rather strange things tonight.

[ianb1547 3,767]

he did actually, he did say all of what the op said, down with the kafflic/muslim schools of hate. and he's a proddy

At risk of appearing pedantic.....he is actually quoted as stating the following:

He said: "In this context I think that potentially those who attend Murrayfield and sing Flower of Scotland - there might be a problem."

Now...whilst the 'bold' on the words highlighted is my doing....he is def not saying that Flower of Scotland is contrary to the law.

but do i want to die in a ditch over this?....not really.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

What about Rangers fans that have been in the papers on the BBC and STV because they have been banned for singing "sectarian songs" There was no outrage at them getting pulled up in court was there?

They were the fannys that complained that much and that is the reason why these laws are here. Now they are getting caught for singing about the IRA and they don't like it.

Fuck the cunt i hope he gets a big fine and banned for life.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,546]

What about Rangers fans that have been in the papers on the BBC and STV because they have been banned for singing "sectarian songs" There was no outrage at them getting pulled up in court was there?

They were the fannys that complained that much and that is the reason why these laws are here. Now they are getting caught for singing about the IRA and they don't like it.

Fuck the cunt i hope he gets a big fine and banned for life.

Depends on what legislation they were tried under and what the line of defence was. Seems that someone had the balls to find a way and a Sheriff had the balls to say what we have all been thinking.

I don't care what happens to the guy but this could help people as I said in my OP.

[WilliamFyfe 1,438]

The laws shite. Waste of tax money.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Feck the common sense of it.

Guy should have been done. They have pushed for the legislation, its not acceptable to sing about terrorists.

They wont rest until they have free reign to sing their terrorist bile, but we get the jail for uttering a mild curse word.

Its too late to back down now. There is no way they can allow certain songs to come back, so we have to make sure these terrorist songs are outlawed.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,546]

Feck the common sense of it.

Guy should have been done. They have pushed for the legislation, its not acceptable to sing about terrorists.

They wont rest until they have free reign to sing their terrorist bile, but we get the jail for uttering a mild curse word.

Its too late to back down now. There is no way they can allow certain songs to come back, so we have to make sure these terrorist songs are outlawed.

That is one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is that the law is "mince" and that fans of ANY team can use this to their advantage and hopefully be acquitted themselves! Maybe even, depending on how far any appeal goes, it could set a precedent which will help people.

I believe that the outcome would have been the same had a Rangers fan been singing about the UVF (I know but you know the cops jump to conclusions and say it is the terrorist organaisation as opposed to the army division) BUT this Sheriff's comments help us!

Try and look at things in a more considered manner instead of looking for the negative all the time.

[Ricky_ 893]

They were the fannys that complained that much and that is the reason why these laws are here. Now they are getting caught for singing about the IRA and they don't like it.

Fuck the cunt i hope he gets a big fine and banned for life.

It's a tricky subject though, if they sing songs of praise for dissident IRA groups then they are promoting terrorism, hate and violence and should absolutely be considered hate speech and illegal.

From what i gather he was signing songs of 'honour' (i think the title of the song?) for the hunger strikers. I find the glorification of murderous fenians as deplorable as the next guy but is that illegal? I'm not sure it is.

Can i sing a song about what a great guy i think Hitler was? Can i wear a Che Guevara T-shirt? I obviously wouldn't do either, but legally i think i probably could.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,638]

Is it just me but how come that after their demo that we are getting this from the law and how come that this is not the first bheggar being let away with this shite while Bears have been lifted and convicted left right and centre!

PS - He made the crucial point about sektarian skools right enough, but will it lead anywhere ?

[koala bear 25]

Unfortunately the sherriff is quoting "the Law", but when has that ever been relevent in Scotland regarding football matters.

Seems that the Sherriff of Notingham is rolled out whenever convenience requires it, he is spot on regarding denominational (sectarian) schools, by the letter of the law as it now stands denominational schools MUST be considered SECTARIAN

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Is it just me but how come that after their demo that we are getting this from the law and how come that this is not the first bheggar being let away with this shite while Bears have been lifted and convicted left right and centre!

PS - He made the crucial point about sektarian skools right enough, but will it lead anywhere ?

I dont agree with the schools, but I would argue that they are not sectarian.

Should still be done away with though.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Unfortunately the sherriff is quoting "the Law", but when has that ever been relevent in Scotland regarding football matters.

Seems that the Sherriff of Notingham is rolled out whenever convenience requires it, he is spot on regarding denominational (sectarian) schools, by the letter of the law as it now stands denominational schools MUST be considered SECTARIAN

Why must they be considered sectarian though?

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,546]

Is it just me but how come that after their demo that we are getting this from the law and how come that this is not the first bheggar being let away with this shite while Bears have been lifted and convicted left right and centre!

PS - He made the crucial point about sektarian skools right enough, but will it lead anywhere ?

Well the case actually happened last week. The thing is Rangers Fans Groups should have protested a long time ago about criminalisiation of football fans.

This is NOT just confined to one set of fans, but it IS disproportionately punishing fans of the Big Glasgow Clubs, therefore those fans ideally should work together on this to change the stupid law!

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,638]

I dont agree with the schools, but I would argue that they are not sectarian.

Should still be done away with though.

Trust me Holyrood the skool is sectarian and so are the rest of them, nests of vipers every one of them !

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Trust me Holyrood the skool is sectarian and so are the rest of them, nests of vipers every one of them !

Haha, thats just not true though! There is not much difference between a catholic school and a non-dom.

Dont agree with any segregation of children though, will only lead to trouble. Faith should be kept out of schools entirely also.

[King Jela 20,360]

Your posting some rather strange things tonight.

It isn't exclusive to tonight.

[koala bear 25]

Why must they be considered sectarian though?

These schools are focused on religous beliefs and those self same beliefs are that "their religion is the only true religion" true bigotry if ever there was and by definition BIGOTRY = SECTARIANISM no matter how it is disguised to suit a particula belief.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,638]

Well the case actually happened last week. The thing is Rangers Fans Groups should have protested a long time ago about criminalisiation of football fans.

This is NOT just confined to one set of fans, but it IS disproportionately punishing fans of the Big Glasgow Clubs, therefore those fans ideally should work together on this to change the stupid law!

Rangers fans should have protested about a lot of things a long time ago but you still can't get them to stand outside hampdump with a couple of banners to demonstrate against a corrupt regime who are demonising and destroying the Club, they just don't turn up. Aye and I can just see us working together with our amigos ǝpɐbıɹq uǝǝɹb ǝɥʇ to fight this stoopid law ! Fuck me !

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,638]

Haha, thats just not true though! There is not much difference between a catholic school and a non-dom.

Dont agree with any segregation of children though, will only lead to trouble. Faith should be kept out of schools entirely also.

How to contradict yourself in jig time ! A fuckin need a shite !

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

These schools are focused on religous beliefs and those self same beliefs are that "their religion is the only true religion" true bigotry if ever there was and by definition BIGOTRY = SECTARIANISM no matter how it is disguised to suit a particula belief.

They dont though. The RC Schools teach about various religions, they focus more on Catholicism, but they do teach about tolerance of others.

To be honest, all religions are pretty daft, so I dont think any of them should be dealt with in a class room.