markybear 136 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere already. I'm unsureIf whyte loses his appeal v Ticketus and the court still states he must pay back the money, does he actually have to pay it?This is a civil case, It's not like its it's hmrc who are chasing him, it's a private company. Can they have him declared bankrupt, or jailed for blatant fraud (not disclosing his directorship ban)?What steps can they take? He clearly couldn't pay them, we all know that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergi1980 311 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Id imagine he'd be jailed even if he can pay it for fraud Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 It's a loan. Nothing can happen to him if he's in Scotland. Am sure you can get the jail in England for it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogzy 31,195 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 His company that underwrote the loan, wavetower was a london based company IIRC.I would imagine this might help with the whole him being jailed thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Id imagine he'd be jailed even if he can pay it for fraudI don't know how many times I need to say this, but here goes again. Getting a loan in your own name isn't fraud. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markybear 136 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 I don't know how many times I need to say this, but here goes again. Getting a loan in your own name isn't fraud.Surely not disclosing his director ban to ticketus is though? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephants stoned 2,994 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 As is morgaging season tickets you dont yet own to fund buying the club who do own the season tickets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott12003 710 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 If whyte don't pay via the guarantees he gave to ticketus .I would expect ticketus to then report it as a crime.Obtaining loan fraudulently or something.Obviously they want their money before he's banged up!so giving whytey boy the chance to pay.(no chance) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornabear 6,201 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 The only difference between Criminal and Civil courts is that Criminal Courts have presidence in being heard. Civil Courts have to wait until there is a free date in the calendar to be heard. I think (may be wrong) any major sentencing has to be passed to Criminal Court. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchieshearercaldow 22,123 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 If the loan was made to Whyte personally or Whyte and any of his associates under a company name the they would be liable, I pressume they could freeze the directors assets to try and reclaim something but I'd imagine a good businessman makes sure he has no personal assets.Whyte will walk away branded as a fraudster and a liar but he'll still have a good life and of course he still wants his nose in the Rangers money pot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markybear 136 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 If the loan was made to Whyte personally or Whyte and any of his associates under a company name the they would be liable, I pressume they could freeze the directors assets to try and reclaim something but I'd imagine a good businessman makes sure he has no personal assets.Whyte will walk away branded as a fraudster and a liar but he'll still have a good life and of course he still wants his nose in the Rangers money pot.Does this then bring ticketus back to rangers?Ie whytes claim that he owns the assets, would ticketus look at it as a potential asset for whyte meaning they could lay claim to it. It just gets worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markybear 136 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 As is morgaging season tickets you dont yet own to fund buying the club who do own the season tickets.Legally speaking, whyte mortgaged ST's as working capital, he bought rangers for a quid.He didn't mortgage them to buy the club, ie the club didn't cost him £18mill. That's his workaround Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephants stoned 2,994 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Legally speaking, whyte mortgaged ST's as working capital, he bought rangers for a quid.He didn't mortgage them to buy the club, ie the club didn't cost him £18mill. That's his workaroundSemantics really but still he morgaged something he didnt yet own, that cant be legal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Surely not disclosing his director ban to ticketus is though?that's what credit checks are for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 It's a loan.Nothing can happen to him if he's in Scotland.Am sure you can get the jail in England for it though.He's not in Scotland though, if he's going anywhere in Britain it's always London. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchieshearercaldow 22,123 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Does this then bring ticketus back to rangers?Ie whytes claim that he owns the assets, would ticketus look at it as a potential asset for whyte meaning they could lay claim to it. It just gets worse.Yes I presume it could if Whyte can prove he has any ownership then it's part of his assets, that's why he's put the shit up everyone....basturd Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Semantics really but still he morgaged something he didnt yet own, that cant be legal?it's ticketus fault for not credit checking hin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markybear 136 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Semantics really but still he morgaged something he didnt yet own, that cant be legal?Using a companies assets to buy said company is highly illegal (there's a legal term for it)Whyte mortgaged ST's to pay lloyds.That in itself isn't illegal, although lying to ticketus on the loan application form is Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markybear 136 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 that's what credit checks are for.There was no record if his ban. This was whytes argument in court (this can be found on Internet etc) the judge said info wasn't available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,810 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Legally speaking, whyte mortgaged ST's as working capital, he bought rangers for a quid.He didn't mortgage them to buy the club, ie the club didn't cost him £18mill. That's his workaroundI think the legality of the deal will hinge on Whyte only getting the Club for the nominal £1 if he cleared the Lloyds debt with his own money. He could not have bought RFC for £1 without having the £18m to clear the debt. That he fraudulently borrowed the money from Ticketus is now confirmed in law. The deal to obtain the Club was also therefore fraudulent as he deliberately misled all the shareholders (Myself, David Murray, etc) about the financial aspect of the takeover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 He's not in Scotland though, if he's going anywhere in Britain it's always London.they can send him court papers with a court date in England. If he goes, he can get ccj's, no such thing in Scotland. 5 yrars (6 maybe? ?) On the credit register. Nothong can happen to him in Scotland, England can possibly jail I for ccj's though Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephants stoned 2,994 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Using a companies assets to buy said company is highly illegal (there's a legal term for it)Whyte mortgaged ST's to pay lloyds.That in itself isn't illegal, although lying to ticketus on the loan application form isWell its clear that ticketus and whyte are two like minded peas in a pod, to me they both deserved hammered by the law. Whyte lied but ticketus must of realised something was not quite right with this deal yet they went ahead anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_1974 204 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Fundamentals of fraud.PretenceInducementReward Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana100 335 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Who cares if he can pay our not. Hope he get the nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassaaaa 11,406 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Theres a reason he's not in jail , he knows the shady side of business inside out and has been doing it for years .I bet the guy sleeps like a rock too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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