Challenging the Tweeters

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

When In Doubt – Make Stuff Up

Since the withdrawal of the McColl/Murray lead requisition to hold an EGM to remove Craig Mather, Brian Stockbridge and Brian Smart as directors of RFC I’ve seen a noticeable change in tack from certain members of the Rangers online community.

I’m not going to name names or start a war of words but lets just say they have been historically and consistently anti-board and by virtue of that pro-McColl group. Now that’s fine every bear is entitled to their own opinion however I must take exception when this spills over into unbalanced vitriol and trying to mislead fellow supporters.

So I’ll simply address some of the things that have irked me.

Brian Stockbridge “lied” to fans about releasing the accounts.

It’s being said by some that Brian Stockbridge promised the fans (at a fans meeting at Ibrox) the clubs accounts by a certain date and that because these accounts have not been released yet he is a liar.

There is no wiggle room here he is flat-out a complete liar who lied to the fans. Now that’s a fairly hefty accusation to level at a director of Rangers and borderline defamation.

But what did Brian Stockbridge actually say at this fans meeting?

“Audited accounts will be out in mid-September and they will show that we have £10 million in the account.”

That is a direct quote and he also reportedly said that he was trying to bring the audited results forward to the end of August.

Now the people branding Stockbridge a liar have no interest in giving him the benefit of the doubt but it’s clear that he didn’t actually promise anything to anyone. He’s reported to have said he was “trying” to bring the accounts forward but quoted directly that they’d be out mid-September.

It’s now the 25th of September, past the mid-September he claimed so do I think Stockbridge is a liar? To be honest I think I’d really have to really dislike the guy to want to brand him a liar because the accounts for a multi-million pound business signed off by Deloitte arrive a few weeks after he said they would.

If there are no sign of the accounts this time next month then I might be a bit concerned yes. It must also be noted that the hullabaloo surrounding the McColl groups requisition may have factored into the late delivery of the accounts.

The board voted against Walter Smith to bring back Green and he left because of this.

I’ve seen this one quite a few times over the past few weeks and most recently today in a blog on the CoplandRoad.org site.

Funnily enough though this completely contradicts the article mentioned above (also from the CoplandRoad.org site) where it says:

“It was acknowledged by those present that the board has unanimously approved Green’s appointment as a consultant”

Now it would be rather easy to jump straight to the conclusion that those present were lying and the vote was not unanimous however it also it not backed up with the events that transpired.

Walter Smith resigned his position as chairman of Rangers on the 5th of August (although the story broke late on Sunday 4th). Charles Green was appointed on the 2nd of August so you’d think if Walter Smith was so incensed by Green’s return and being voted against that he would have left immediately. Instead he resigned 2 days later coincidently after his protégé suffered one of the worst defeats in Rangers history being knocked out of the League Cup in the 2nd round.

Of course Walter himself could just have told us this himself that he left because he was outvoted over Green but did not mention it in his leaving statement.

Personally I think it’s very likely that Walter approved Green’s return but on some proviso that he was kept on a leash. After appearing in the papers having a pop at Ally McCoist I think that would have been the last straw for Walter.

However only Walter himself can confirm or deny any of this so until he does I’ll go with what was said, the vote to bring Green back was unanimous.

The board “lied” about why Charles Green was brought back

I’ve seen quite a few times it referenced that the board said Charles Green was brought back to liaise with investors then that changed to Charles Green was brought back to raise money for the club. That somehow the directors have chopped and changed their story and couldn’t get their “lies” straight.

From the same article mentioned above:

Hart said that Green was brought in to liaise with the investors and that he felt that he would assist with bringing in further investment.

Now I don’t think that leaves any room for doubt and it speaks for itself. It shows no duplicity or change of story on the part of the board.

Mather is a liar because he promised us a “mini-report” on Jack Irvine’s comments.

Let’s examine what Mather actually said in an interview with the Herald:

I do not know anything about that but I have asked people to go digging on that and come back with a mini-report so I can judge that accordingly. But as that stands, I do not have enough information to comment further.

As it stands all Craig Mather “promised” to do was to have people look into the email in question and then he’d make a judgement. He did not promise that he’d make any of that information public or that the possible consequence of that report was the removal of Jack Irvine.

Now we’ve got no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Ibrox, we don’t know if this report ever happened or if it did happen what the consequences were if any.

Personally I think it was a very easy stick to beat Craig Mather over the head with but in all honesty if someone ever pulled me up for writing that someone was “thick” in an email I’d written years ago then I’d probably tell them to grow up and stop wasting my time. I see worse things written about Ally McCoist after every match on Twitter and this is from Rangers fans.

The bottom line is people are allowed their opinion and they are allowed not to like people. Some wanted to trump this up to be some heinous crime committed against John Grieg, I mean honestly, take a bit of time and think about it.

Making Stuff Up

I’m slightly concerned at the feeding frenzy I see every day on Twitter regarding the current board. Objectivity and balance have long since departed and in its place lies and misinformation.

I can only see this getting worse as the AGM draws near and Paul Murray’s desperation deepens and his supporters respond with even more nonsense on his behalf.

By all means someone tell us what’s going on and why we should back Paul Murray, but until you actually provide any real information please stop lying and twisting the truth. After all you seem to be quite against Jack Irvine doing the same on behalf of the Rangers board, I wouldn’t want you to be hypocrites.

http://thedailyranger.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/when-in-doubt-make-stuff-up/

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I know I am the wrong source for you to listen to but if you look at my signature I explain FUD ... And the FUD factor is being cranked up all over the place and yet, even for me, it has worked - for I know not whom to trust - if I had the decision I would 'back the board' as despite some errors ( green and irvine) they seem to be doing ok -bBUT the lack of a communicated plan on the future is my main concern - I hope the commentary to the accounts, at least from the side of the board, addresses this.

[smartypants 4,427]

To me, this whole Jack Irvine debacle is a huge red herring. I'd never heard of the guy until a few weeks ago and when all this comes to pass, will never hear of him again.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

I know I am the wrong source for you to listen to but if you look at my signature I explain FUD ... And the FUD factor is being cranked up all over the place and yet, even for me, it has worked - for I know not whom to trust - if I had the decision I would 'back the board' as despite some errors ( green and irvine) they seem to be doing ok -bBUT the lack of a communicated plan on the future is my main concern - I hope the commentary to the accounts, at least from the side of the board, addresses this.

Can't see your signature on the phone so that is a WHOOSH moment

[The Beast 9,182]

Brilliant post Swally. It really bugs me that these guys (and we all know who they are) continue to push these untruths in tweets and blogs and forum posts. They also have the temerity to paint themselves as the "good guys" who only want the best for the club.

In reality they are quite the opposite.

The only liars are them.

Once all of this is over and their wee poster boy has disappeared (hopefully) forever from the Rangers scene then I suspect there will be revisionism aplenty from these anti-fans.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Can't see your signature on the phone so that is a WHOOSH moment

Ok FUD is a well known PR / marketing technique called Fear Uncertainty and doubt - it's a spoiling tactic and was first attributed to IBM to smother lower priced competition when they started a verbal viral campaign in late 80's 'no one ever got fired for buying IBM' - it is the main tactic getting employed by PM ( and by the b'better together ' campaign) it is highly effective for smears delays and confusion - IMHO both sides are using it and as we can see in our community there is a lot of Fear uncertainty and doubt - my sig explains that and says beware of it!

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Excellent post in that it puts the board in a context sadly lacking with many today.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Not a fan of Stockbridge in the slightest but these bloggers and agenda pushers are flat out scum in my eyes

Don't care if they are Rangers fans. That doesn't get you a free pass in life

Destructive agenda pushing wankers who are full of their own importance when all they have is an opinion like any of us but want to be heard loudest

[big dave mcpherson 95]

When In Doubt – Make Stuff Up

Since the withdrawal of the McColl/Murray lead requisition to hold an EGM to remove Craig Mather, Brian Stockbridge and Brian Smart as directors of RFC I've seen a noticeable change in tack from certain members of the Rangers online community.

I'm not going to name names or start a war of words but lets just say they have been historically and consistently anti-board and by virtue of that pro-McColl group. Now that's fine every bear is entitled to their own opinion however I must take exception when this spills over into unbalanced vitriol and trying to mislead fellow supporters.

So I'll simply address some of the things that have irked me.

Brian Stockbridge "lied" to fans about releasing the accounts.

It's being said by some that Brian Stockbridge promised the fans (at a fans meeting at Ibrox) the clubs accounts by a certain date and that because these accounts have not been released yet he is a liar.

There is no wiggle room here he is flat-out a complete liar who lied to the fans. Now that's a fairly hefty accusation to level at a director of Rangers and borderline defamation.

But what did Brian Stockbridge actually say at this fans meeting?

"Audited accounts will be out in mid-September and they will show that we have £10 million in the account."

That is a direct quote and he also reportedly said that he was trying to bring the audited results forward to the end of August.

Now the people branding Stockbridge a liar have no interest in giving him the benefit of the doubt but it's clear that he didn't actually promise anything to anyone. He's reported to have said he was "trying" to bring the accounts forward but quoted directly that they'd be out mid-September.

It's now the 25th of September, past the mid-September he claimed so do I think Stockbridge is a liar? To be honest I think I'd really have to really dislike the guy to want to brand him a liar because the accounts for a multi-million pound business signed off by Deloitte arrive a few weeks after he said they would.

If there are no sign of the accounts this time next month then I might be a bit concerned yes. It must also be noted that the hullabaloo surrounding the McColl groups requisition may have factored into the late delivery of the accounts.

The board voted against Walter Smith to bring back Green and he left because of this.

I've seen this one quite a few times over the past few weeks and most recently today in a blog on the CoplandRoad.org site.

Funnily enough though this completely contradicts the article mentioned above (also from the CoplandRoad.org site) where it says:

"It was acknowledged by those present that the board has unanimously approved Green's appointment as a consultant"

Now it would be rather easy to jump straight to the conclusion that those present were lying and the vote was not unanimous however it also it not backed up with the events that transpired.

Walter Smith resigned his position as chairman of Rangers on the 5th of August (although the story broke late on Sunday 4th). Charles Green was appointed on the 2nd of August so you'd think if Walter Smith was so incensed by Green's return and being voted against that he would have left immediately. Instead he resigned 2 days later coincidently after his protégé suffered one of the worst defeats in Rangers history being knocked out of the League Cup in the 2nd round.

Of course Walter himself could just have told us this himself that he left because he was outvoted over Green but did not mention it in his leaving statement.

Personally I think it's very likely that Walter approved Green's return but on some proviso that he was kept on a leash. After appearing in the papers having a pop at Ally McCoist I think that would have been the last straw for Walter.

However only Walter himself can confirm or deny any of this so until he does I'll go with what was said, the vote to bring Green back was unanimous.

The board "lied" about why Charles Green was brought back

I've seen quite a few times it referenced that the board said Charles Green was brought back to liaise with investors then that changed to Charles Green was brought back to raise money for the club. That somehow the directors have chopped and changed their story and couldn't get their "lies" straight.

From the same article mentioned above:

Hart said that Green was brought in to liaise with the investors and that he felt that he would assist with bringing in further investment.

Now I don't think that leaves any room for doubt and it speaks for itself. It shows no duplicity or change of story on the part of the board.

Mather is a liar because he promised us a "mini-report" on Jack Irvine's comments.

Let's examine what Mather actually said in an interview with the Herald:

I do not know anything about that but I have asked people to go digging on that and come back with a mini-report so I can judge that accordingly. But as that stands, I do not have enough information to comment further.

As it stands all Craig Mather "promised" to do was to have people look into the email in question and then he'd make a judgement. He did not promise that he'd make any of that information public or that the possible consequence of that report was the removal of Jack Irvine.

Now we've got no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Ibrox, we don't know if this report ever happened or if it did happen what the consequences were if any.

Personally I think it was a very easy stick to beat Craig Mather over the head with but in all honesty if someone ever pulled me up for writing that someone was "thick" in an email I'd written years ago then I'd probably tell them to grow up and stop wasting my time. I see worse things written about Ally McCoist after every match on Twitter and this is from Rangers fans.

The bottom line is people are allowed their opinion and they are allowed not to like people. Some wanted to trump this up to be some heinous crime committed against John Grieg, I mean honestly, take a bit of time and think about it.

Making Stuff Up

I'm slightly concerned at the feeding frenzy I see every day on Twitter regarding the current board. Objectivity and balance have long since departed and in its place lies and misinformation.

I can only see this getting worse as the AGM draws near and Paul Murray's desperation deepens and his supporters respond with even more nonsense on his behalf.

By all means someone tell us what's going on and why we should back Paul Murray, but until you actually provide any real information please stop lying and twisting the truth. After all you seem to be quite against Jack Irvine doing the same on behalf of the Rangers board, I wouldn't want you to be hypocrites.

http://thedailyrange...-make-stuff-up/

fair doos but why dont you mention the GOOD things Stockbridge, Mather etc have done.....might make a better case. I aint sure about Paul Murray etc although I do feel he is a guy that wouldnt hurt us or steal from the club (give himself large unwarranted bonus, inflated wages etc.)

I dont know. Is there anyone in the camp that still lauds mr charlie green............i dont think so.....and the current board are greens guys.

i think murray just wants to look under the hood and find out where all our money is been syphoned away too.

If the answer is that it hasnt been syphoned away and indeed is all accounted for then thats fine tho.

[big dave mcpherson 95]

Not a fan of Stockbridge in the slightest but these bloggers and agenda pushers are flat out scum in my eyes

Don't care if they are Rangers fans. That doesn't get you a free pass in life

Destructive agenda pushing wankers who are full of their own importance when all they have is an opinion like any of us but want to be heard loudest

would you call it a destructive agenda if it became apparent that murray only wanted to make sure there wasnt any dodgy deals going on whereby the clubs money was being drained infront of our eyes? You can call people who have this view all the names under the sun but at the end of the day its just an opinion like yours.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Your being far too generous to mini when you say he simply wants to look under the hood IMO

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Not a fan of Stockbridge in the slightest but these bloggers and agenda pushers are flat out scum in my eyes

Don't care if they are Rangers fans. That doesn't get you a free pass in life

Destructive agenda pushing wankers who are full of their own importance when all they have is an opinion like any of us but want to be heard loudest

It's difficult to tell the difference between them and Phil 3 names

They are all gnawing away at the club like a cancer

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

would you call it a destructive agenda if it became apparent that murray only wanted to make sure there wasnt any dodgy deals going on whereby the clubs money was being drained infront of our eyes? You can call people who have this view all the names under the sun but at the end of the day its just an opinion like yours.

But it's not just about having a view tho

It's about spreading lies, smear, destructive agendas and loads of other things

Again your being way too kind to mini again when you say he just wants to make sure there's no dodgy deals going on

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

It's difficult to tell the difference between them and Phil 3 names

They are all gnawing away at the club like a cancer

I agree

[North Rd 2,860]

I agree

I would hope this does not come back and bite you in the ass, nothing wrong in questioning the Board's payments imo, if the accounts show us looking good, then Pro Murray campaigners will be left with their tails between their legs...........

but, if they are proved correct about this Board, I can see alot of Humble pie.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

I would hope this does not come back and bite you in the ass, nothing wrong in questioning the Board's payments imo, if the accounts show us looking good, then Pro Murray campaigners will be left with their tails between their legs...........

but, if they are proved correct about this Board, I can see alot of Humble pie.

Anyone with half a brain and decent memory can get some sort of idea if they take time go back and do the sums

Think about purchases, investments, bringing projects in house, player pay offs, repaying the investors for the start up costs with the generous interest that was well documented

IMO the only thing that's wrong is the 100% bonuses, the wage bill for moving us up the leagues and the 1.5 million annually for the most clueless management team we've ever had

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

I would hope this does not come back and bite you in the ass, nothing wrong in questioning the Board's payments imo, if the accounts show us looking good, then Pro Murray campaigners will be left with their tails between their legs...........

but, if they are proved correct about this Board, I can see alot of Humble pie.

There's no excuse for lies,

malicious misinformation and smears

On either side if the argument

It helps no one

[californiadreamin52 339]

Sweep sweep

[North Rd 2,860]

There's no excuse for lies,

malicious misinformation and smears

On either side if the argument

It helps no one

I agree with that Swally, and hopefully that is all it has been,I just dont trust Imran and Stockbridge.

[Adoniram 1,919]

Let's assume then that Murray gets his seat on the board and realises our expenditure far outweighs our income....what then?

Will he sack McCoist or force him and his assistants to accept drastic pay cuts?

Will he do the same to the players and insist some of the prize assets are sold in January?

Will he make other staff redundant or close Auchenhowie to save money?

It's all very well him bumping from the sidelines about wanting to see where the money has gone but what is his solution if he does find it has gone?

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

I agree with that Swally, and hopefully that is all it has been,I just dont trust Imran and Stockbridge.

I trust them as much as I trust the Tweetwankers and bloggers

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

The OP has used the KISS principle.

Well said.

[sonofbear 398]

Great post Swally. The usual suspects must still be receiving their orders for the day from their minister for propaganda.

[iang2911 423]

When In Doubt – Make Stuff Up

Well said swally, cant disagree with it at all. The information is out there if anyone cares to go find it.

I think the cynical decision to cancel the first requisition for an EGM at the end of the summer only to do it once season tickets had been sold says a lot also, especially when the club were required to hold an AGM at this time anyway.

Everyone should really wait and see what happens with the accounts and at the AGM, as far as I am concerned the board, once Mather took over, has done very little wrong and has been put under immense and unnecessary pressure from people outside the club. The real damage though, long term, will be within the support.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Great post Swally. The usual suspects must still be receiving their orders for the day from their minister for propaganda.

It wasn't my article mate

The link is at the bottom if you want to read more of their stuff