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I think Ally is making steady progress as a manager, he's a much better manager now than he was when we were dropped to 3 div. He doesn't always get things right but what manager does? I can see Ally becoming a great manager in the future with what he has experience over the last 3 years under his belt, Alex Ferguson was an average manager when he first started out, Ally has the same passion as him for consistently looking for improvement.

Yeah coz he should have turned the youth into mini-messi's and brought the cream of the lower divisions into the club and moulded them into a team that could march through the divisions without anyone getting into our half of the pitch. Then he should've ramped up the training and coaching again and won the SPFL at the first time of asking and charged forward into Europe.

Meanwhile, in the real world.....

:anguish:

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GRETNA FC

GRETNA

March 2005 - Win promotion to Second Division ( 32 wins out of 36)

March 2006 - Win promotion to First Division (by 18 points)

May 2006 - Get into Scottish Cup final ( Loss to Hearts )

April 2007 - Win promotion to Scottish Premier League

Cost circa £8million

But hey, £20 million is OK for some.

http://news.bbc.co.u...tna/7406153.stm

Our football costs were over £24m before we kicked a ball in the Championship. Over £12m per year in the bottom two leagues. That's not the managers fault though, the board let him run riot with a blank cheque.

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2 Ramsdens Cups in our trophy cabinet. There is absolutely no excuse for failure in that competition.

Possibly integrated a few more players into the team who will be of use to us outside the lower leagues.

Demanded a wage cut the moment he knew we were going to the bottom tier.

Fought harder for a scouting team. Jon Dalys contract could have paid for a team of scouts. Given the choice, what would you have chosen?

Put a stop to the jobs for the boys illness our club suffers so badly from.

Stopped signing so many mediocre journeymen.

Gave youth more of a chance in the first team.

Hired a proper group of coaches for specialised training rather than his pals to go through the same sessions every single day.

That's just for starters.

Since Godfather liked your post and couldn't answer mine, perhaps you can frame a reasoned answer?

Do YOU think the kids good enough?

If you think they are, what have YOU seen of them to make that judgement?

What more experienced players would YOU have brought in?

How would YOU have identified them?

Where would YOU have brough them from?

How much would YOU pay them?

How would YOU encourage players of the quaility YOU want to play in the bottom two tiers of Scottish football?

What size of squad do YOU think we should have?

How would YOU guarantee the promotions?

Should we be in a position to challenge in the SPFL once we get there?

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Since Godfather liked your post and couldn't answer mine, perhaps you can frame a reasoned answer?

Yes.

Passion, work rate, goals, desire, hunger, skill on occasion too.

Possibly none. Alexander, Wallace, McCulloch, Miller and Boyd is a more than strong enough backbone to get us to the top league. Not ideal, not my choice but those are the cards we have been dealt so far on our journey. The rest were not necessary imo.

As the answer to Q.3 is none there is no answer here.

As above.

No player on our books on the 3 years in the bottom league should have been earning more than £5k per week. That should have been our highest earner and even then that is more than what anyone else in Scotland is earning outside Celtic obviously.

By selling myself, my vision, our club and our ambition to prospective players. Not throwing money at them.

Hard one to answer, a core of 20 maybe with youths promoted on merit when needed.

No one can guarantee anything in football but Rangers gaining consecutive promotions in the lower leagues is about as close as anyone will ever get to a guarantee. No matter how we went about our business, buying titles as we have or doing it right. We were always going up.

Of course, in year one back and every year after.

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Yawn, yes you do still have posters like me because there's posters like you who still live in this fantasy land where you believe we've had the raw material youngsters that could be "developed" into top quality Rangers players (3 - 5 you reckon) capable of challenging at the top of the Scottish game - incidently, it's not something we've ever really been good at, so why do you expect it now?

You also seem to believe we should have been bringing in other players capable of doing similar as we progressed through the leagues. Who are these players, where do they come from, and if they really are around, do you think Rangers (in the bowels of Scottish football) would be the only ones to identify it (with what scouting system??). And how much would we have had to pay to get them to come here if we did...bearing in mind the biggest carrot we had (OF games and European exposure is denied to us for three years...at least). Just what could we offer, except a high wage?? We were never ever going to be able to bring in enough players of the quality required for a Rangers team to challenge at the top.

What we got was what I personally expected, a bunch of average Joe SPL type players on inflated salaries to get us through the divisions; players who would never normally get near us but could be trusted to do a job.

Now, I'm not an Ally fan as a manager, I don't like his style of play and I think he's too loyal to some players. But I recognise the restrictions he's been placed under (from finance to concerted attacks and campaigns trying to trip us up and destroy us at every turn) are like no other Rangers manager in history and, for the moment, he's achieving the number one priority for me, that is back to the top division in the shortest time possible.

Brilliant post. In similar terms as I have said before. Untill all the common denominators return to the club which once made it the great club it once was, then Ally can not be judged on the same playing field as Sir Walter, Big Eck, Souness, Advocat etc. Ally McCoist has had to deal with far more problems than any of them. Untill that happens, I will continue to give Ally my full backing. The cry was No Surrender !!!

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Brilliant post. In similar terms as I have said before. Untill all the common denominators return to the club which once made it the great club it once was, then Ally can not be judged on the same playing field as Sir Walter, Big Eck, Souness, Advocat etc. Ally McCoist has had to deal with far more problems than any of them. Untill that happens, I will continue to give Ally my full backing. The cry was No Surrender !!!

As a small comparison. Walter managed Rangers at a time when the club was being run by an outside force(the bank), the business was running at a loss, was in £30m debt and was up against not only the best clubs in the country but a genuine title rival and had a smaller budget than that club. Ally manages Rangers at a time when the club is very much in our own hands, money is being thrown at him for his team, yes we were running at a loss but debt only stands at £1.5m, we are up against the weakest, poorest and smallest clubs in the country and have had absolutely no title rivals to contend with and no one in any division has had any sort of budget comparable to ours.

Apart from trying to pick 11 players out of a squad of over 30, what problems has he really had to contend with? He has had 3 outstandingly strong squads to work with in his 3 years in the lower leagues compared to the opposition. The off-field negativity just seems to be a convenient excuse for some people.

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Here we go with the same pish as we have heard for more than 3 years now..

"Ye canny judge Ally, he's no hid a fair crack at it"

"He's won the leagues so he hiz"

Ally McCoist has had the easiest job of any Rangers manager in history. He's been given a free run at the job for more than 3 years now despite the following:

-Blowing a 15 point lead in the SPL

-Getting fucked out of Europe twice against poor opposition in the same season!

-Getting pumped by Dundee United at home in the cup in his first season

-Put out by Falkirk in the other cup in his first season.

-Laughed out the Ramsdens cup at home to QoTS

-Put out the cup by Forfar

-Battered by Inverness in the cup

-Scudded against Dundee United for a second time

-Lost a Ramsdens final against Raith Rovers

-Once again put out the cup by United at Ibrox

That's without going into the various embarrasments we have endured in the lower leagues under this dud's management.

"He's no hud a fair crack of it n aw that though"....

Gies peice ffs, he's made an utter cunt of managing this club.

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Thanks for taking the time, some others when you ask such questiongs just bolt...!

I know many of us don't agree on the way things could have been, but my viewpoint has grown from the realisation of the many diffculties we've encountered along the way. I've responded in kind.

Yes.

Passion, work rate, goals, desire, hunger, skill on occasion too.

The issue with the youth primarily is it's unreliability, and in our situation when we started out is most of them were untested at any senior level. I've seen some of these traits in some of the youngsters that came in, but only two (the two that get regular time) show it more consistently. Of the rest, they've flattered on occassion but equally, they've been anonymous as often. The only other one I have high hopes for is Gallacher and I believe he's the youngest (might be wrong) but his time will come. I really don't think we had enough quality youngsters at the start of this journey to get us through. My opinion, but I believe the risk of failure would have been to great.

Possibly none. Alexander, Wallace, McCulloch, Miller and Boyd is a more than strong enough backbone to get us to the top league. Not ideal, not my choice but those are the cards we have been dealt so far on our journey. The rest were not necessary imo.

As the answer to Q.3 is none there is no answer here.

As above.

No player on our books on the 3 years in the bottom league should have been earning more than £5k per week. That should have been our highest earner and even then that is more than what anyone else in Scotland is earning outside Celtic obviously.

Well, based on my belief that our youngsters wouldn't have been ready, then obviously I'd have said we needed to bring in more experience! Problem with that has been identifying it with the lack of a scouting department and once finding it, encouraging it to drop divisions to help our cause. Players are workers and in a short career spending 3 years outside a top division and all the exposure that buys you, you'd run the risk of being overlooked for, perhaps, a move down to even lower English leagues...money talks!

By selling myself, my vision, our club and our ambition to prospective players. Not throwing money at them.

That's admirable and would pull at the heartstrings of many a supporter, but if we're looking for a quality to get us through divisions, then that quality will be in demanded elsewhere. A short career needs paying for and agents are pretty persuasive when they find a club willing to offer to pay a bit more than you are. It is a short career, and for a quality player trying to make the most of it for his own and family financial security, then dropping down divisions in Scotland is not likely to maximise your earning potential, unless we're offering ridiculous money...

Hard one to answer, a core of 20 maybe with youths promoted on merit when needed.

Fair. I'd agree, but it would be loaded more with experience than youth to ensure the promotion. One thing I've disagreed with is the size of the squad, but if the manager is given a budget and accepts it in good faith that he can spend it, then it's difficult to argue if he feels he needs a player or three more.

No one can guarantee anything in football but Rangers gaining consecutive promotions in the lower leagues is about as close as anyone will ever get to a guarantee. No matter how we went about our business, buying titles as we have or doing it right. We were always going up.

Not sure I agree that we were always going up, especially if we hadn't brought in the experience. I just don't believe that would have happened with the course you'd have set us on! It would have been a huge risk and not one I think we should have taken. Again, it's only an opinion, but one based on what I've seen of our youths, but I think we'd likely take a year or two longer to get back to the top. And the problems that would bring us would dwarf where we are now.

Of course, in year one back and every year after.

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Here we go with the same pish as we have heard for more than 3 years now..

"Ye canny judge Ally, he's no hid a fair crack at it"

"He's won the leagues so he hiz"

Ally McCoist has had the easiest job of any Rangers manager in history. He's been given a free run at the job for more than 3 years now despite the following:

-Blowing a 15 point lead in the SPL

-Getting fucked out of Europe twice against poor opposition in the same season!

-Getting pumped by Dundee United at home in the cup in his first season

-Put out by Falkirk in the other cup in his first season.

-Laughed out the Ramsdens cup at home to QoTS

-Put out the cup by Forfar

-Battered by Inverness in the cup

-Scudded against Dundee United for a second time

-Lost a Ramsdens final against Raith Rovers

-Once again put out the cup by United at Ibrox

That's without going into the various embarrasments we have endured in the lower leagues under this dud's management.

"He's no hud a fair crack of it n aw that though"....

Gies peice ffs, he's made an utter cunt of managing this club.

You just mad up a load of stuff without really thinking there. Well done.

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What did I make up there?

Are you trying to say what I typed didn't happen?

:lol:

You're dismissing acual events yourself. Did you know we've been in admin, liquidated, demoted, loads of top players left, been screwed over by all and sundry? That all happened but your biggest beef is the fuckin manager????

Anyway,

Ally McCoist has had the easiest job of any Rangers manager in history. He's been given a free run at the job for more than 3 years now despite the following:

-Blowing a 15 point lead in the SPL

-Getting fucked out of Europe twice against poor opposition in the same season!

-Laughed out the Ramsdens cup at home to QoTS

-Battered by Inverness in the cup

That's without going into the various embarrasments we have endured in the lower leagues under this dud's management.

"Gies peice ffs, he's made an utter cunt of managing this club.

Made up stuff. It's your opinion maybe, but in the context of where we've been it was bloody likely to happen, and more will. Any manager, Mournihno the fuckin lot, would suffer in those circumstances.

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While I agree Ally has been well overpaid the financial problems have nothing to do with him.

SFL div 3 player budget was £6,000,000 the non player budget was £12,000,000. What football club on earth spends double the amount of money on executive pay compared to it's playing staff?

Guessing we've probably spent well over £20,000,000 on bonus money and wages for the boardroom in the last two years.

As for this season the club should have set a budget depending on the amount of income it had projected and stuck to it that's the CEO's job not the football managers.

where did they figures come from?

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Non footballing "staff costs" were not £12 million.

Correct. According to the 120 day review, for the 19 month period it covered it was only £7m, to average it out for an annual cost it's about £4.4m per year. That covers around 200 members of staff and all board members. Several of which have since left the club.

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You're dismissing acual events yourself. Did you know we've been in admin, liquidated, demoted, loads of top players left, been screwed over by all and sundry? That all happened but your biggest beef is the fuckin manager????

Anyway,

Ally McCoist has had the easiest job of any Rangers manager in history. He's been given a free run at the job for more than 3 years now despite the following:

-Blowing a 15 point lead in the SPL

-Getting fucked out of Europe twice against poor opposition in the same season!

-Laughed out the Ramsdens cup at home to QoTS

-Battered by Inverness in the cup

That's without going into the various embarrasments we have endured in the lower leagues under this dud's management.

"Gies peice ffs, he's made an utter cunt of managing this club.

Made up stuff. It's your opinion maybe, but in the context of where we've been it was bloody likely to happen, and more will. Any manager, Mournihno the fuckin lot, would suffer in those circumstances.

No wait a minute here...you said I made stuff up..

What exactly is made up?

Those results happened, nothing has been made up.

So it was likely to happen that a squad made up of SPL players would lose out to QoTS at Ibrox and be turned over in a final by Raith Rovers?

Get a grip ffs. The sooner you end this 'McCoist is my hero' stuff the sooner you might stop embarrassing yourself on here.

:lol:

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Hat doff to Chris Jack a well written article. I agree with what Kris Boyd said in that article, not many managers have had the circumstances he's had Imo, I think Ally is making steady progress as a manager, he's a much better manager now than he was when we were dropped to 3 div. He doesn't always get things right but what manager does? I can see Ally becoming a great manager in the future with what he has experience over the last 3 years under his belt, Alex Ferguson was an average manager when he first started out, Ally has the same passion as him for consistently looking for improvement.

I don't agree with all this 'Ally out' stuff, it was started by the daily record, and grew arms and legs, certain journalists love it when they noise the fans up with that phrase, it sell their papers, enhances their reputation has a writer. They troll through our forums, looking at the responses I don't think the journalist trolls should be fed, they should move over and let non biased writers take their place.

I've never understood this excuse at all. McCoist is in his 50s and has been a disaster since his appointment. He won't get another job in management if he walks or get sacked.

He spent a few years as an assistant to WS at Scotland and Rangers and has learned basically fuck all if you ask me.

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I've never understood this excuse at all. McCoist is in his 50s and has been a disaster since his appointment. He won't get another job in management if he walks or get sacked.

He spent a few years coaching with WS at Scotland and Rangers and has learned basically fuck all if you ask me.

(tu)

He's just not a manager at all, everyone can see it but him.

His mistakes are ones you expect young guys in their 30's to make in management.

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Thanks for taking the time, some others when you ask such questiongs just bolt...!

I know many of us don't agree on the way things could have been, but my viewpoint has grown from the realisation of the many diffculties we've encountered along the way. I've responded in kind.

Are youth any less reliable than the over paid experienced guys who have let us down so badly? I don't believe there was ever any risk of failure in the 3rd division, i still believe to this day our Under 20's team who took a very strong Celtic side to the last day of the league title last year, would have won that league comfortably. Added to that the experience of the few who tupe'd over. There was no need for the Blacks, Sandazas, Kyles, Argyrious etc etc. We should have embraced the signing ban and used it as a positive to breath a youthful life into our team. We chose to throw money at mercenaries.

We could have brought in more experience without paying them between £7k and £10k a week though. Guys who would have run through bricks walls for a chance to play for Rangers unlike those we got.

We didn't need quality to get us through the divisions, that has been proven. We have been extremely mediocre yet spent a fortune for the privilege, that is, i think, what annoys fans. It certainly pisses me off.

Agreed, the budget is given by the board, the manager then does what he thinks is right with that budget. I don't think Ally has done things right. We have far too many players, especially for certain positions. Central defence and centre midfield the 2 obvious ones.

As i said, i believe we already had enough experience, Alexander, Wallace, McCulloch. 3 experienced internationals, compliment them with our best of youth and i believe we would have walked the bottom 2 leagues easily. It would also have gave fans something worth buying into, our future.

As an aside, i really do rate some of our youths very highly, i am gutted i haven't seen more of them and they haven't been trusted more.

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Do YOU think the kids good enough?

an example of our kids, what did emilson cribari bring to our 2 seasons of promotions that luca gasparotto couldnt have brought himself, what did argyriou bring to our division 3 campaign that a young right back couldnt have offered, what did kevin kyle bring that kane hemmings wouldnt have brought, and what did sandaza bring at all

thats 4 signings that i have highlighted that we did not need one bit, then you could add dean shiels, stevie smith, all wages wasted on players that we do not need and never did to get to where we are just now

If you think they are, what have YOU seen of them to make that judgement?

the standard of opposition in the previous two years, the absolute piss poor performances by a lot of allys signings in that same time, 2 things that easily confirm that we could have signed less players and still made it up 2 divisions

What more experienced players would YOU have brought in?

fuck all, id have kept the money, if we really needed more experienced players we should have paid buttons in wages for guys that actually played these divisions, guys from the likes of falkirk, QotS, etc, aye they arent the signings the fans flock to see, but they would have been cheap and more than capable of climbing the divisions as they have already done it

How would YOU have identified them?

considering most of our games are different times from others in scotland, why cant even one of our management 3 go to various other games and have a fucking look, its not hard to spot standout players in these games, spot one, highlight him and watch him again and again, if he stays stand out then thats a start

Where would YOU have brought them from?

answered above, other successful teams in the SFL at the time, QotS cantered league 1 like we did, they done it with a 10th of the budget we used

How much would YOU pay them?

offer them double or treble what they were getting at their old clubs, still under the wages we gave cribari, sandaza etc

How would YOU encourage players of the quaility YOU want to play in the bottom two tiers of Scottish football?

answered above

What size of squad do YOU think we should have?

about the size we have just now, only with more integrated youth, less expensive seat warmers like shiels, smith etc

How would YOU guarantee the promotions?

did you see the shite we faced in the last 2 years, we just cuffed clyde recently big time, we managed over 100 points last season and way over 100 goals, more games would have been tighter, but we'd still have won both leagues with games to spare

Should we be in a position to challenge in the SPFL once we get there?

no but financially we wouldnt be rock bottom again with the prospect of having to find a whole new squad for the premiership, we might have had a fair few million left to recruit decent bosmans to at least settle in the division, we might have had some decent youth that people wish to bid on, or decent youth that could maybe hold their own in the premiership,

the fact is even if we survive financially this season, we might end up going into the premiership with a squad that is worse than the squad ally started division 3 with, purely because our clubs thinking, and this is a lot to do with ally, was for the next 12 months and no further

an absolute shambles, ally takes a massive portion of blame for our on field state

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I've never understood this excuse at all. McCoist is in his 50s and has been a disaster since his appointment. He won't get another job in management if he walks or get sacked.

He spent a few years as an assistant to WS at Scotland and Rangers and has learned basically fuck all if you ask me.

10 years in coaching and management and has shown absolutely no signs of development or improvement. I think 99% of Rangers fans have now accepted that this is not his game and he will be moved on whenever we have a board of directors and shareholders befitting our club. Right now, Alistair is the perfect scapegoat and sideshow for them. That and the fact they cannot afford to sack him.

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It's worrying that some people still defend McCoist by stating "look at all the problems he's had to face". What problems? We lost our best players, certainly, but we were demoted to the bottom league facing players inferior to those we still had.

It was Annan we were up against, not Arsenal.

So I'll ask again, what problems on the pitch relative to the divisions we were in, has McCoist had to endure over the last two seasons?

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As a small comparison. Walter managed Rangers at a time when the club was being run by an outside force(the bank), the business was running at a loss, was in £30m debt and was up against not only the best clubs in the country but a genuine title rival and had a smaller budget than that club. Ally manages Rangers at a time when the club is very much in our own hands, money is being thrown at him for his team, yes we were running at a loss but debt only stands at £1.5m, we are up against the weakest, poorest and smallest clubs in the country and have had absolutely no title rivals to contend with and no one in any division has had any sort of budget comparable to ours.

Apart from trying to pick 11 players out of a squad of over 30, what problems has he really had to contend with? He has had 3 outstandingly strong squads to work with in his 3 years in the lower leagues compared to the opposition. The off-field negativity just seems to be a convenient excuse for some people.

That's all fair enough but have a look back at team that Walter inherited from Souness in his first stint and PLG in his second. Ok Ally has had no tittle contenders over the last 2 seasons, but i believe he has one in the shape of Hearts this term. Walter had one title contender in some seasons but looking at the state of some of the previous Celtic teams, he had none. Walter had genuine quality with some now plying their trade in the EPL. Further to this, as far as I am aware, all the important positions that define any club were occupied my individuals who had the necessary experience and knew the drill at Rangers. The CEO, scouting network etc.

Ally was acting as our CEO for many months and deserves credit for that. McCoist had to start from scratch almost when £40m worth of talent walked out and therefore we had no players, little money, no scouting network, no preseason in the 3rd division and more importantly very little time. McCoist simply went with players he could trust to get the job done. The team can only beat what is in front of them and one thing almost all our opponents had was stability which after 2 and bit seasons we still cant get. That coupled with the fact that in nay case, at Rangers we need a better class of player than the opposition simply because every team tries harder against Rangers and the tims. I dont think anyone can say deny that McCoist has more off field trials than any other Rangers manager. Its not an excuse, its fact. I don't think he has anything to answer for reference the budger for transfers. Every manager asks what budget he has to work with and works within that remit. If the budget is sanctioned by the CEO, how is it Ally's fault. Yes there is the argument that some of his signings are questionable, panic buys maybe but the objective was to deliver back to back promotions which he done with plenty to spare. An odd cup would have been nice though but it wasnt to be. The players are as equally cupable as the Manager for that.

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