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Brentford Manager Sacked


TheLawMan

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Brentford owner believes in some weird mathematical based way of deciding the best make up of a team and would only support signing players who fitted into this mathematical system. Something which has been developed in the US and Warburton publicly said was a load of bollocks and would not stay at Brentford if he had to use that system to decide on signings so he and the owner agreed to part company but he would stay until end of season to allow Brentford opprtunity to get new manager.

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Brentford owner believes in some weird mathematical based way of deciding the best make up of a team and would only support signing players who fitted into this mathematical system. Something which has been developed in the US and Warburton publicly said was a load of bollocks and would not stay at Brentford if he had to use that system to decide on signings so he and the owner agreed to part company but he would stay until end of season to allow Brentford opprtunity to get new manager.

Nothing to do with maths buddy.

Their owner wants to use Football Manager as their main scout basically. The game gives you a player potential on every player and for the most part its actually fairly accurate but warburton didnt want to go down the route of trusting a computer game for his recruitment and thats why they came to a disagreement.

Can see Warburtons point when he has just signed Tavernier who on football manager has poor potential, when in reality he's playing unbelievable.

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I've been a Brentford fan for around 50yrs. Mark Warburton gave us the best and most entertaining football i'd ever seen at Brentford. He and DW conducted themselves in exemplary fashion during their last few months , no doubt that was noted at Rangers.Everyone was stunned when we heard he was leaving and i don't think we'll ever find out the real reason until Warbs writes a book. Meantime he's the type to keep his opinions on the matter to himself. Unsettling and not a little confusing at the time but I have faith in Mathew Benham and we'll now get behind Lee Carsley 100% and hopefully he'll get us back to mid table at least. That said, Warburton looks to have been given a clean slate at Rangers to apply his philosophy and develop the footballing side of the club as he wants (which he apparently wouldn't have been allowed to do at Brentford). I'd say he was pretty lucky to get that kind of opportunity at such a massive club, as such, magic hats off to the Rangers board for having the balls to take a chance on him and DW. The fans and everyone associated with Rangers are now reaping the rewards and fully deserve to. Rangers are a pleasure to watch these days and will continue to improve. Match made in heaven in my opinion.

Martin Samuel wrote a good piece in the D Mail about this.

Couldn't help but remember halfway through 1st half of Petrofac game against Hibs. Brentford fan came on the official thread saying that he thought the owner was right to move MW along. He didn't say much in the 2nd half.

Oh well hope they do well but surely the whole stats thing needs to be toned down just a tad.

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Nothing to do with maths buddy.

Their owner wants to use Football Manager as their main scout basically. The game gives you a player potential on every player and for the most part its actually fairly accurate but warburton didnt want to go down the route of trusting a computer game for his recruitment and thats why they came to a disagreement.

Can see Warburtons point when he has just signed Tavernier who on football manager has poor potential, when in reality he's playing unbelievable.

The owner doesn't 'want to use football manager' :lol:

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Was Warburton sacked? I thought he left because the Brentford owner wanted the Team to be run in a different manner to the way Warburton wanted and that led to a parting of the ways.

More fool him.

He was sacked aye; In February, Warburton held discussions with Brentford's owner, and he told Warburton that he wanted to pursue this "stats" thing. Warburton didn't want to be a part of it, so was told he'd be out of a job at the end of the season.

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Nothing to do with maths buddy.

Their owner wants to use Football Manager as their main scout basically. The game gives you a player potential on every player and for the most part its actually fairly accurate but warburton didnt want to go down the route of trusting a computer game for his recruitment and thats why they came to a disagreement.

Can see Warburtons point when he has just signed Tavernier who on football manager has poor potential, when in reality he's playing unbelievable.

What? :lol: this couldn't be less true
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HaHa football manager, owner wanted to use an American style stats system, the Americans are obsessed with stats, if you listen to any of their games they pull out stats for everything.

If it was the "Moneyball" system used in baseball then it was shown to work - for Baseball!! :) The make up of players skills worked out on a numbers basis looked pretty sound as it was for individuals with areas that could be quantified. Football has too many variables plus the team being the main issue as how they worked together couldn't be measured.

Personally I'm really glad the Brentford chairman went down this route as it brought someone to the club who, going by his start and methods, could be one of the great managers in not just Scottish, but UK football. If he gets the time and the backing from the board in cash terms, I can only see great things for our club both this season and in the future. Must admit I have not felt so positive and hopeful for a good few years. Been watching the club for over 50 years and the only manager that got my hopes and excitement up like this so early into his career was Souness. We are on the way back without a doubt and all the rest know and fear it.

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To be fair, I think there's a lot of merit in the use of statistics etc. that Brentford want to pursue (eg. Mydtjylland's success in Denmark) but it shouldn't be at the expense / considered over-and-above clear leadership in the football dept.

I wonder if Brentford have fallen into an easy way of thinking about how to use these type of stats when, in practice, they should be used to help a good manager do his job, select players, training etc. rather than be a proxy for a good manager. I've watched Brentford a couple of times this season, and they look like a group of players without confidence or defined shape, and lacking clear leadership.

I think Warburton uses a lot of this type of info with us, but uses the stats to build the players' confidence, motivation, short- and medium-term targets for the season, players' positioning, and selection etc. Which is how it should be.

I was delighted when Warburton was first mentioned for the job for us, as I've followed the English lower leagues for a while and really enjoyed watching Brentford last season in particular, but I've been absolutely delighted with how he's got things working.

I reckon his man-management is outstanding and can really get the players working hard to benefit the team and for their own careers. I guess he's able to bring a lot of his experience working in London, managing a group of traders (iirc), to the environment of a football team to get everyone focussed etc. Plus, his knowledge of the game to bring in players: Big Tav, Waghorn, Halliday, Holt, Oduwa, and Zelalam are outstanding, and McKay, Shiels, Law, and Wallace look like different players altogether. Especially McKay and Wallace.

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I don't really care for Chairmen who bring in people to do a job and when they are successful decide they know better and then try to install a system over their heads, some Managers have too much integrity to accept that. I give you Mark Warburton and David Weir.

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If it was the "Moneyball" system used in baseball then it was shown to work - for Baseball!! :) The make up of players skills worked out on a numbers basis looked pretty sound as it was for individuals with areas that could be quantified. Football has too many variables plus the team being the main issue as how they worked together couldn't be measured.

Personally I'm really glad the Brentford chairman went down this route as it brought someone to the club who, going by his start and methods, could be one of the great managers in not just Scottish, but UK football. If he gets the time and the backing from the board in cash terms, I can only see great things for our club both this season and in the future. Must admit I have not felt so positive and hopeful for a good few years. Been watching the club for over 50 years and the only manager that got my hopes and excitement up like this so early into his career was Souness. We are on the way back without a doubt and all the rest know and fear it.

Do you have figures on how many baseball teams have won the world series using this system?

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As the Brentford lad said... he was not given the freedom to do what he is doing at Rangers... to be honest I don't think he would have been given this freedom here either had we ben in the top flight.

MW was a gamble and thankfully it paid off, but I do feel for the Brentford fans. Watching horrendous football is not cheap or fun.

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Do you have figures on how many baseball teams have won the world series using this system?

Boston Red Sox three times and St. Louis Cardinals twice. The New York Yankees also use the system, which is odd, as the whole point of it was to analyse non-traditional statistics to allow smaller teams to compete with the big, rich teams. The Yankees have won one World Series since starting to use it.

Since the system became relatively well-known and utilised, about half of the World Series' have been won by teams using it.

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Boston Red Sox three times and St. Louis Cardinals twice. The New York Yankees also use the system, which is odd, as the whole point of it was to analyse non-traditional statistics to allow smaller teams to compete with the big, rich teams. The Yankees have won one World Series since starting to use it.

Since the system became relatively well-known and utilised, about half of the World Series' have been won by teams using it.

That's not bad. It has some value for baseball at least. Is it implemented as heavily in any other team sports?

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That's not bad. It has some value for baseball at least. Is it implemented as heavily in any other team sports?

Don't think so. I think the reason it works in baseball but struggles in other sports, is baseball is effectively a series of set plays. Although multiple players can be involved in each play, it is hugely influenced by a series of 1-2-1s between pitchers and hitters.

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Do you have figures on how many baseball teams have won the world series using this system?

Can't really see where I said any team would win the World Series using that system. It is based more on getting more results for less money as with the A's over a season. Once you reach the playoffs it doesn't apply as much. Very good balanced article showing both sides of the theory here.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/116510-moneyball-review-does-it-work

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To be fair, I think there's a lot of merit in the use of statistics etc. that Brentford want to pursue (eg. Mydtjylland's success in Denmark) but it shouldn't be at the expense / considered over-and-above clear leadership in the football dept.

I wonder if Brentford have fallen into an easy way of thinking about how to use these type of stats when, in practice, they should be used to help a good manager do his job, select players, training etc. rather than be a proxy for a good manager. I've watched Brentford a couple of times this season, and they look like a group of players without confidence or defined shape, and lacking clear leadership.

I think Warburton uses a lot of this type of info with us, but uses the stats to build the players' confidence, motivation, short- and medium-term targets for the season, players' positioning, and selection etc. Which is how it should be.

I was delighted when Warburton was first mentioned for the job for us, as I've followed the English lower leagues for a while and really enjoyed watching Brentford last season in particular, but I've been absolutely delighted with how he's got things working.

I reckon his man-management is outstanding and can really get the players working hard to benefit the team and for their own careers. I guess he's able to bring a lot of his experience working in London, managing a group of traders (iirc), to the environment of a football team to get everyone focussed etc. Plus, his knowledge of the game to bring in players: Big Tav, Waghorn, Halliday, Holt, Oduwa, and Zelalam are outstanding, and McKay, Shiels, Law, and Wallace look like different players altogether. Especially McKay and Wallace.

I believe the Brentford chairman has an interest in Mydtjylland. Their success prompted the same move at Brentford. There was no sacking just a mutual parrying of the ways. I believe MWs contract ended and Mark felt he couldn't work effectively in the new set up. AFAIK theyou remain on very good terms.

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That's not bad. It has some value for baseball at least. Is it implemented as heavily in any other team sports?

The writing website where Brentfords 'stat guy' started up (was actually his site to begin with)

There is alot of good football work on this site. it's not like baseball though, it seems the stats with football are alot more complicated due to the nature of the game

http://statsbomb.com/

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Can't really see where I said any team would win the World Series using that system. It is based more on getting more results for less money as with the A's over a season. Once you reach the playoffs it doesn't apply as much. Very good balanced article showing both sides of the theory here.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/116510-moneyball-review-does-it-work

Wasn't having a go mate, just interested to see how successful it has been (tu)

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I believe the Brentford chairman has an interest in Mydtjylland. Their success prompted the same move at Brentford. There was no sacking just a mutual parrying of the ways. I believe MWs contract ended and Mark felt he couldn't work effectively in the new set up. AFAIK theyou remain on very good terms.

Aye man, that's how I understood things. The chairman of Brentford presented his plans to Warburton for the next season, and Warburton didn't fancy having that type of restriction on his management / decision-making so mutually decided to go on their own ways.

I get the impression Warburton and Brentford agree about using these stats in selection, but Warburton would argue that it shouldn't be at the expense of a manager having outright control, which (if I understand) is the case with Brentford's plans just now.

Anyway, cannae get in the way of the magic hat, ffs :)

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The problem with the Moneyball system, As Adrian Durham was saying the other day, is that the system doesn't take into account the opposition, or if a player is feeling a bit leggy has problems at home etc,

last year at Xmas it said that Brentford should have been in 11th place when in fact there were 6th, and it had the same positions for the end of the system, So Warbs was actually doing better than the system wanted him too. lol

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