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Can we start being honest about where we are now


K.A.I

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I'm in no way slating the team. We were the better team today and played alright (not great but alright - seen us play worse)

But IMO we were the better team against St Johnstone too and didn't beat them, either.

The point is we are still a long way off where we want to be. It's not a criticism, it's an honest observation. I see people on here all the time saying because Celtic are shite we don't need to do much for next season and we would easily challenge etc. I face palm every time.

Teams like St Johnstone and Kilmarnock are the bread and butter you expect to see off every week before playing one of the bigger games.

Dave King is 100% correct. We need 5 or 6 players to compete and get back to where we want to be. Obviously the levels of spending to do it is up for debate but signing guys like Forrester, King, O'Halloran simply won't do it.

I'll stress again, it's not me criticising the team. We played alright today and in general for the level we are at we are going great but some serious work and thought/planning is required to take us to the next level. We have to make some big choices when it comes to our next rebuild job which will be in the summer. If not, forget it.

 

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3 minutes ago, kaiser1041 said:

No one has stated otherwise though I prefer to compare to where we were last season.progress is being made and will be made again on the summer

Loads have stated otherwise mate, but I agree with you it's a good way to look at it by comparing where we were last year. In general the standard is night and day, but I'll say it before someone else does (AlBear or The Dude) - we beat St Johnstone and Kilmarnock last season in the cups with McCoist in charge.

Not that I want they days back, just saying.

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we have got a way to go and if you looked at it negatively we have played two Prem teams at home and came away with a point. Doing that next season will not be good enough. However we are learning - 1-3 to St Johnstone is now 0-0 to Kilmarnock  and totally dominating in the 2nd half - with Killie saying they are delighted. The progress is there to see for anybody that wants to look - but we need to strengthen - and MW has kind of called DK out in that respect with saying he needs 6 players.

To be honest though - I dont want us to take the eye of the ball with regard to promotion. i want us to win this league first and foremost - then lets see what happens in the next transfer window.

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I think we are where we need to be right now. Take the next step for the (anti-Rangers) SPFL in the summer. If that goes to plan and we get european football for the following season, then some major investment will be needed to compete at that level. We just need to be patient and take each step as it comes. All in all, we're on the right path.

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No One has ever said we are the finished article, but there no point spending money just for the sake of it.

Warburton came in and the club was a mess off field and on field, it was never going to be quick fix. He has to change the entire club from coaching staff and methods and the scouting network aswell as having bare bone squad at the start of the season.  

We have come a long way in a short time, the only thing we need to do is get promoted this season. Once we know that, I think the board and Warburton will have a better understanding of what is required for the next stage of progression.

U also have to give ohallaron and king a chance, they didn't even play today.  

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Celtic are shite along with most of the SPL but it doesn't mean we'll waltz into the league and win it.

Teams wised up to us pretty quickly this year and we need to be better in the final third. Some of that will come from the players we have getting better, gelling as a team but ultimately we will need to strengthen.

I have no doubt Warburton has targets in mind that he feels would only have been interested in a move to us if we were in the top league, hence we aren't making moves now.

On another day we'd have put 3-4 past kilmarnock but thats just it. A championship winning side will win when they play bad but more importantly they'll win when they are on top of a game, regardless of how many men the opposition put behind the ball.

It's weird as I defended Walter Smiths tactics on our run to Europe, we knew the other teams were better and we counteracted that by playing "anti-football". Now the shoe is on the other foot and its infuriating. If we get better players in over the summer we'll unlock the teams that just defend and when they push to get an equalizer we'll punish them more often.

OP is right, and many have said it all season, we are light years ahead of where we were last year but much more work is required before we can talk about winning the top league or cups.

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Very much a work in progress and what huge progress it's been. Different teams/seasons but the 2nd bottom team in the league above took 6 off us across two games less than a season ago. Was anyone impressed with Kilmarnock today?  Not at all. Few shrewd buys here and there and we will be just fine. However, I'd take defeat in the replay if it means we win the league. Promotion is paramount. 

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I think games like today are useful benchmarks.   As much for where we still need to improve as opposed to demonstrating how far we have improved from last season.  Its a lot in both cases - a massive improvement from last season but a fair way to go to be where we'd like to be in a SPFL.   In that sense we learned nothing really new from the game today.    Sure Killy got turned over big time recently by Dundee Utd.  But they have also had decent results against bigger teams in the SPFL.    Like every team we face week in and week out the opposition tries harder against Rangers because they are playing Rangers.    So nothing new there either.

Important game though today was - and important though the competition is with (I think) an entry route to Europe if we won the competition - it is nowhere near as important as winning the league this season.   The actual reality right now is (imo) that this season we need to be the best in the Championship - with 'best' meaning we win the league.  From that point onwards assessments can be made about where the Club is in footballing terms for next season.   For now it seems to me that its still first thing first and it is as simple as this - press on to win the league.  If that does not happen then apart from the meltdown among the Support and possibly among the Board who will have sunk a lot of money into the venture this season - where we would be would be a place none of us will want to talk much about.

I agree there is no point in slating the team today.  Rather they experienced another example of teams parking the bus determined not to lose and a fearing a risk of being turned over for quite a few goals.   In a way its a compliment.   But in the learning process MW and the squad must find a way to learn how to uproot parked buses and find the way to scoring goals to reward the possession and quality of chances that are being created.    Learning needs to be turned into 'we've learned'.  If we learn and do it every game to the end of the season by winning the league then and only then will we truly be 'in the good place' that MW often states we are in.   And at that point we can candidly assess where we are and close the chapter in the march through the divisions back to the top.   

 

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7 minutes ago, broxi51 said:

No One has ever said we are the finished article, but there no point spending money just for the sake of it.

Warburton came in and the club was a mess off field and on field, it was never going to be quick fix. He has to change the entire club from coaching staff and methods and the scouting network aswell as having bare bone squad at the start of the season.  

We have come a long way in a short time, the only thing we need to do is get promoted this season. Once we know that, I think the board and Warburton will have a better understanding of what is required for the next stage of progression.

U also have to give ohallaron and king a chance, they didn't even play today.  

1- Plenty of here have said we would do fine next season with this lot. Loads.

2- Everyone, myself included has acknowledged we are on the right track and the progress Warburton has made. I said it in my OP.

3- O'Halloran and King will get a chance. I know they didn't play today - but do you think they would have made a difference? I don't.

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4 minutes ago, Moody Blue said:

Very much a work in progress and what huge progress it's been. Different teams/seasons but the 2nd bottom team in the league above took 6 off us across two games less than a season ago. Was anyone impressed with Kilmarnock today?  Not at all. Few shrewd buys here and there and we will be just fine. However, I'd take defeat in the replay if it means we win the league. Promotion is paramount. 

Never, ever accept defeat.

NO SURRENDER FFS :crabflute:

:p20:

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Lets be honest if we were dropped into the SPL from next week we would struggle, anybody who thinks different is looking at it through Blur Tinted Glasses(my favorite position by the way). I think we have to give the management team some credit, they have been spot on so far. I also think we have to be realistic, cup games are a different kettle of fish from the league and can go totally against the form book.

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Agree with OP.

 

I'm sure we all agree that we are better than we were this time last year but it's worrying that we've not beat SPFL opposition in two games at Ibrox and list both our toughest away games.

 

Also worrying that some of the players we depend on struggle in such games as well..

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2 minutes ago, allgers said:

Lets be honest if we were dropped into the SPL from next week we would struggle, anybody who thinks different is looking at it through Blur Tinted Glasses(my favorite position by the way). I think we have to give the management team some credit, they have been spot on so far. I also think we have to be realistic, cup games are a different kettle of fish from the league and can go totally against the form book.

Like these?

 

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