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Can we start being honest about where we are now


K.A.I

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15 minutes ago, Moody Blue Legend said:

5 or 6 players that are a good bit better than we have atm.  Progress is being made but we're not close yet.

For the first time today, I'm beginning to have doubts about the plan A, no plan B philosophy the boss has. Its great to watch (until the final third) but I'm just not convinced this is going to make us champions of Scotland. Will probably work well in Europe but first and foremost we're in the business of winning titles and cups. Walter was fantastic domestically but overall disappointing in Europe, the question is can we achieve both.

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5 minutes ago, Alec87 said:

For the first time today, I'm beginning to have doubts about the plan A, no plan B philosophy the boss has. Its great to watch (until the final third) but I'm just not convinced this is going to make us champions of Scotland. Will probably work well in Europe but first and foremost we're in the business of winning titles and cups. Walter was fantastic domestically but overall disappointing in Europe, the question is can we achieve both.

we have scored 65 goals in 23 games. Its great to watch BECAUSE of the final 3rd. It didn't happen today and we do need to make sure we dont try and pass our way into the net with every move but this is the way to play football and with better players playing the way we do i think plan A will be just fine.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

1- Plenty of here have said we would do fine next season with this lot. Loads.

2- Everyone, myself included has acknowledged we are on the right track and the progress Warburton has made. I said it in my OP.

3- O'Halloran and King will get a chance. I know they didn't play today - but do you think they would have made a difference? I don't.

There's no evidence to show we won't be successful next season with this lot,  we are as dominant in the these cup games as we have been in the league. St Johnstone game I think we came in over confident especially the way we had been smashing teams back then and we were punished for that in the first 47 minutes.  since then I think we have been the far dominant team in that game and the killie game, , but the last third have not been clinical enough plus a touch of bad luck.

 

point 2 I never disputed , i just think some got ahead of themselves the way the season started.  The rebuild job at Rangers is massive, what did Mcoist and the old board actually leave  for the new board and Warburton to work with and build on, nothing but a mess.

Point 3 u just cant say they would not make a difference, we will never know.  Did King not make a difference last week.  Which team was better killie or Falkirk.  Ohallaron is a higher calibre spl player and could easy make a difference against a bottom spl team

 

 

 

 

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Last season can not be used as a benchmark as to where we are now imoa. Last season was a abysmal and best forgot about. Games like today are when best to judge where we are as a team and the op is right in , the team is on the up but improving the first team is necessary if we are to compete next season.

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3 minutes ago, broxi51 said:

There's no evidence to show we won't be successful next season with this lot,  we are as dominant in the these cup games as we have been in the league. St Johnstone game I think we came in over confident especially the way we had been smashing teams back then and we were punished for that in the first 47 minutes.  since then I think we have been the far dominant team in that game and the killie game, , but the last third have not been clinical enough plus a touch of bad luck.

 

point 2 I never disputed , i just think some got ahead of themselves the way the season started.  The rebuild job at Rangers is massive, what did Mcoist and the old board actually leave  for the new board and Warburton to work with and build on, nothing but a mess.

Point 3 u just cant say they would not make a difference, we will never know.  Did King not make a difference last week.  Which team was better killie or Falkirk.  Ohallaron is a higher calibre spl player and could easy make a difference against a bottom spl team

 

 

 

 

It's all a matter of opinion. Every point there. You sound to me like you don't think we need to do much for next season?

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3 minutes ago, murzo said:

Last season can not be used as a benchmark as to where we are now imoa. Last season was a abysmal and best forgot about. Games like today are when best to judge where we are as a team and the op is right in , the team is on the up but improving the first team is necessary if we are to compete next season.

neither should it be forgotten the strides the manager and the  team have made in the last 9 months.

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I agree wholeheartedly, it's not a slight on the current squad or Warburton either. This current squad lest we forget has been assembled in a short period of time made up of mostly inexperienced and younger players, people comparing their shortcomings to Ally's side need especially to remember that as they have shown more progress and played vastly better Football in their short time than Ally's experienced side in three seasons. 

Whilst the Mhanky Mhob are far from the team they were when we were playing them in the League last they still are several steps ahead of the teams we have been playing and that's even with an utterly inept Manager. I would say though that outwith the top four or so in the Premiership there isn't a big difference between the top Championship sides and the lower to mid table Premiership sides. Killie were no better than the likes of Morton, St Mirren and Livi and on another day we could have pumped them.

If we want to be challenging the Sheep Shaggers and Tarriers next season we need at least four proven quality players, we need investment for that and can't just chance it on loan deals or bosmans.

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52 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

I'm in no way slating the team. We were the better team today and played alright (not great but alright - seen us play worse)

But IMO we were the better team against St Johnstone too and didn't beat them, either.

The point is we are still a long way off where we want to be. It's not a criticism, it's an honest observation. I see people on here all the time saying because Celtic are shite we don't need to do much for next season and we would easily challenge etc. I face palm every time.

Teams like St Johnstone and Kilmarnock are the bread and butter you expect to see off every week before playing one of the bigger games.

Dave King is 100% correct. We need 5 or 6 players to compete and get back to where we want to be. Obviously the levels of spending to do it is up for debate but signing guys like Forrester, King, O'Halloran simply won't do it.

I'll stress again, it's not me criticising the team. We played alright today and in general for the level we are at we are going great but some serious work and thought/planning is required to take us to the next level. We have to make some big choices when it comes to our next rebuild job which will be in the summer. If not, forget it.

 

 

captain_obvious.jpg

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No shit. We do need to improve. Right now I don't fully expect us to easily defeat premiership teams. Well, of course I want us to but I'm just trying to be realistic unlike a lot of people on here. I would love nothing more for us to go up next season and give that lot a right good challenge for the title but I'll just be happy if we can finish mid table and avoid being relegated back into the championship. It's gonna be a couple more seasons before we're fully ready I think.

Some people are just setting themselves up for disappointment by expecting us to go up there and finish 1st, 2nd or even 3rd. Again, I would like us to win our 55th title next season but we are still rebuilding. Our fanbase rightfully expects us to be winning every game and winning every possible title we can but getting back into the premiership is only the first major step. King/Board & Warburton have A LOT of work yet to do and it's gonna take time.

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Just now, one55 said:

No shit. We do need to improve. Right now I don't fully expect us to easily defeat premiership teams. Well, of course I want us to but I'm just trying to be realistic unlike a lot of people on here. I would love nothing more for us to go up next season and give that lot a right good challenge for the title but I'll just be happy if we can finish mid table and avoid being relegated back into the championship. It's gonna be a couple more seasons before we're fully ready I think.

Some people are just setting themselves up for disappointment by expecting us to go up there and finish 1st, 2nd or even 3rd. Again, I would like us to win our 55th title next season but we are still rebuilding. Our fanbase rightfully expects us to be winning every game and winning every possible title we can but getting back into the premiership is only the first major step. King/Board & Warburton have A LOT of work yet to do and it's gonna take time.

Fucking hell..

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The manager has already stated he needs a good few more players in.

We seem to dominate some games and make plenty of chances but hardly threaten the goal.

Too many shots don't hit the target. We need someone who doesn't mess around in the oppositions penalty box and makes the keeper work.

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We're  a work in progress but still heading in the right direction with a team built from scratch only about 8 months ago .

The manager will know where to strengthen to make the progression to challenge in the top flight if we're there so whilst I'm frustrated we didn't win today realistically I'm happy with the progress this season given the omnishambles of last season.

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For a team that has had under a year playing together I think we are in ok shape.

 

Yes we need additional quality that is not even an arguement and one that the manager has stated time and again, the need to continue improving.

 

We have recently signed O'Halloran, Crooks and Windass on 4 year deals so the wheels are in motion already.

 

You then look at the players on loan and with contracts coming to an end added to the managers comments and I have no doubt we will strengthen.

 

Hibs have performed fairly well against SPL opposition this season but you can bet they don't have sides parking the bus against them.

 

I think we all know we have to add quality but it's not something I'm panicked by.

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32 minutes ago, sandyinroyalblue said:

We're  a work in progress but still heading in the right direction with a team built from scratch only about 8 months ago .

The manager will know where to strengthen to make the progression to challenge in the top flight if we're there so whilst I'm frustrated we didn't win today realistically I'm happy with the progress this season given the omnishambles of last season.

Pretty much sums up how I've thought for a couple of months.

What we'll need when we go up is to be far more clinical in our play. Obvious stating the obvious but that means we need better players, up front, in midfield and at the back.

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Beating teams in a cup means absolutely nothing over wether we'd match them over 36 games.  Hibs have beaten a side joint top of the premier division this year but we've bossed hibs this year. So what does that mean?   Teams have and will continue to raise their game against Rangers.  If not for lack of concentration we'd have won this game at a canter and then these threads would be non existent.

not disputing we need a finisher (I mean a 1 chance finisher) but aside from that I can't see how we'd improve unless we started spunking 4-5 million on English championship players.

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We are where we are but wind the clock back a year to the darkest on/off the field mess, and all but the most optimistic were wondering if we were going to survive as a club never thinking a year later here we are at the top of the league with a top management team playing decent stuff, a solid  board sifting their way through the previous regimes clusterfuck to get us on track.

I for one am delighted with the huge strides we have made, of course we have a fair bit to go but we have a fighting chance that's for sure.

Every day a year ago and more seemed to bring another drama delivered with glee to pile us deeper into the doom, some have short memories.

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1 hour ago, K.A.I said:

I'm in no way slating the team. We were the better team today and played alright (not great but alright - seen us play worse)

But IMO we were the better team against St Johnstone too and didn't beat them, either.

The point is we are still a long way off where we want to be. It's not a criticism, it's an honest observation. I see people on here all the time saying because Celtic are shite we don't need to do much for next season and we would easily challenge etc. I face palm every time.

Teams like St Johnstone and Kilmarnock are the bread and butter you expect to see off every week before playing one of the bigger games.

Dave King is 100% correct. We need 5 or 6 players to compete and get back to where we want to be. Obviously the levels of spending to do it is up for debate but signing guys like Forrester, King, O'Halloran simply won't do it.

I'll stress again, it's not me criticising the team. We played alright today and in general for the level we are at we are going great but some serious work and thought/planning is required to take us to the next level. We have to make some big choices when it comes to our next rebuild job which will be in the summer. If not, forget it.

 

Spot on.

Whenever I hear/read things like "they fear us coming back" I'm a bit embarrassed because we have a long way to go yet.

We're making steady progress for sure and I'm delighted with our style of play, just not getting carried away with it.

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Learned nothing from today's game that I didn't already know.  Fans and pundits will  to draw conclusions from it being Kilmarnock from the league above but there was little difference in game compared with last week's game against Falkirk, other than we sneaked a late goal to win last week.  The quality of the opposition was much the same IMO.

We havent played great the last couple of games.  However, like every other team in the world we will blow hot and cold with our form throughout the season.  Taking a balanced view, we are easily good enough to win our league (which is all that really matters this year).  Once we get promoted, we will have the opportunity to improve the quality of player in our squad which we will need to do.  I'm sure MW is well aware of the progression we need to make to compete and win in the higher league and hopefully Europe.

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Missing a finish today that is all

 

look at the stats, nothing much more could have been done today, 19 shots, most of the possession

All that was missing was a goal, what more out of our play do you want? But you already knew that didn't you, just couldn't wait to start a thread on it

 

:sleep1:

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