Zelalem

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, HG5 said:

And they all got goals amongst the sitters to prove why they were worth sticking with.

And persistently came back for more.

Hindsight is 20/20. They'll all have missed sitters early in there career. They didn't have that record to fall back on at 17/18/19. Look at C.Ronaldo. He was written off as a one trick pony when he first came to Man U.

[gmcf 34,093]

Shooting doesn't seem to be his strong point and it's obviously something he needs to work on , so I can understand his reluctance to have a go , instead he does the next best thing by trying to put someone through which against packed defences is a hard thing to do. 

I thought he did ok today , and I did sense at times , that nobody moved enough to give him options. I think his biggest problem is his size and I think he struggles with the physicality of Scottish football. I think Law , being a bit more robust , would maybe have been a wiser choice to start today. 

[HG5 11,082]

3 minutes ago, ThatNightInFlorence said:

He's not in the team to score goals though. That's not his role whereas it is Waghorn's. 

It's any player's duty, if they get in the right position, to try their best to score.

'Not in the team to score goals'

Never heard anything so daft.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

anyway, I'm off to get pished.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,504]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Hutton was a whipping boy until he came back from his leg break.

McKay was 17, went on loan at 18 to the might of Greenock and Raith and toiled.

Which of our youths are we denying a place? From what I've seen we've no young CM who is any where near to a starting place. Robbie Crawford or Andy Murdoch are arguably closest and both are out on loan. After that it's maybe Liam Burt, who's been on the bench a few times.

 

whipping boy or not, he still broke through and not at 21 which was implied in the post i quoted, mckay did go on loan, means nothing given how fucking awful a manager ally was, fact is mckay played 41 times between the ages of 17 and 18, scored his first goal at 17 as well

as for youths being denied a place, andy murdoch could very well argue that he's deserving of a place before zelalem, murdoch didnt do much wrong last year, jordan thompson as well another player we could be utilising thats ours and not someone elses

[HG5 11,082]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

anyway, I'm off to get pished.

Good idea!

Have a good time!???

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 hours ago, AllyMcCoist said:

Personally I think warburton is keen to see him progress so that other clubs see Rangers as an attractive place to send their players on loan

Yup. Me too.

I don't rate the boy at all which might sound harsh as he's young and developing but there is logic in what you say. Law and Holt are our two best central midfielders IMO.

[Inigo 32,526]

Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

whipping boy or not, he still broke through and not at 21 which was implied in the post i quoted, mckay did go on loan, means nothing given how fucking awful a manager ally was, fact is mckay played 41 times between the ages of 17 and 18, scored his first goal at 17 as well

as for youths being denied a place, andy murdoch could very well argue that he's deserving of a place before zelalem, murdoch didnt do much wrong last year, jordan thompson as well another player we could be utilising thats ours and not someone elses

That wasn't implied in the post at all. Zelalem has broken through at 18 by that logic.

The point is that Hutton was not well developed at Zelalem's age either, and didn't become effective till 21, so why should Zelalem be expected to be at that level now? At 18-19 Hutton was ordinary. Very ordinary. 

[ger4life_1872 29,448]

Halliday should have been off before him today , actually thought mw should have left miller on too , imo the double sub on 60 mins is making us a bit predictable and has distrupted our play a cpl of times

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

whipping boy or not, he still broke through and not at 21 which was implied in the post i quoted, mckay did go on loan, means nothing given how fucking awful a manager ally was, fact is mckay played 41 times between the ages of 17 and 18, scored his first goal at 17 as well

as for youths being denied a place, andy murdoch could very well argue that he's deserving of a place before zelalem, murdoch didnt do much wrong last year, jordan thompson as well another player we could be utilising thats ours and not someone elses

Shouldn't players actually earn their place in the team? It seemed to be the call last season. Have we changed that now and should play inferior players simply because they have a longer deal here? Zelalem, regardless of his parent club, is our player until June. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,504]

5 minutes ago, Inigo said:

Ferguson was older under Advocaat, and had played bit parts to gain experience before that. Hutton was very, very ordinary until 21, nearly 22. McKay did very little till 20, this year.

None of them showed any indication of being any better at the same age.

In terms of supporter reaction, he should be supported the same way any young player should, and too often aren't at Ibrox. His playing isn't his fault, whether anyone thinks he should or shouldn't be. The reaction towards him is pretty brainless tbh.

ferguson broke through under walter at the age of 19, arguably he could have done it earlier but going for 9 and then 10iar, hutton still broke through to a premier league challenging and CL competing rangers side at 19, and to ay mckay did very little to this age is a bit harsh given he played 41 times in his first season and had mccoist grew a set of balls back in division 2 we'd have stuck with him and mckay might well be pushing  over 150 games for rangers at this age

zelalem has failed to make any sort of an impact since joining us, we have played part time, full time opposition etc and aside from one early round cup game i cannot think of a game where he was the best midfielder

now granted thats not something he should get dogs abuse for, but given the rep he arrived with, the rep he STILL has (top 30 youngsters in the world blog recently for example), then the fans are rightly wondering where this supposed superstar is, and either the fans take their frustrations out on him or warburton, either way they will get criticism for funnily enough criticising

[writingranger 1,412]

I reckon he's approaching a kind of threshold in his development. He'll either make a big leap forward, or stall a little as his confidence and inconsistency drop off. My personal opinion is that he's about to become a player. t may come that little bit too late, but along with the poor things he does, he does some excellent things which will eventually pay off. Having said that, I don't think he is always the best option and am happy that Warburton plays the squad. I want to see whether Nicky law, Dean Shiels and so on have more to offer. I'd think about giving Waghorn and Miller (both have been fantastic) a bit of a rest and bed Forrester and O'halloran in.

[gmcf 34,093]

1 minute ago, ger4life_1872 said:

Halliday should have been off before him today , actually thought mw should have left miller on too , imo the double sub on 60 mins is making us a bit predictable and has distrupted our play a cpl of times

I thought Miller did well today and would have kept him on. It seems to be a standard MW substitution after 60 minutes . 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,504]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Shouldn't players actually earn their place in the team? It seemed to be the call last season. Have we changed that now and should play inferior players simply because they have a longer deal here? Zelalem, regardless of his parent club, is our player until June. 

if players should earn their place in the team, can you point out exactly what zelalem has contributed to deserve a starting slot?

[ThatNightInFlorence 696]

At the end of the day the day it looks like a lot of people just aren't smart enough to appreciate what Zelalem contributes to the side 

 

 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,504]

5 minutes ago, Inigo said:

That wasn't implied in the post at all. Zelalem has broken through at 18 by that logic.

The point is that Hutton was not well developed at Zelalem's age either, and didn't become effective till 21, so why should Zelalem be expected to be at that level now? At 18-19 Hutton was ordinary. Very ordinary. 

hutton was up against premier league players, full time experienced players, if hutton was ordinary, very ordinary at 18-19 then what is zelalem considering he's barely contributed against inferior opponents than hutton was up against

[ger4life_1872 29,448]

1 minute ago, gmcf said:

I thought Miller did well today and would have kept him on. It seems to be a standard MW substitution after 60 minutes . 

Yeah i thought he was 1 of our best today , especially first half , only player who seemed too want too bring the tempo up and get people moving

[HG5 11,082]

2 minutes ago, ThatNightInFlorence said:

At the end of the day the day it looks like a lot of people just aren't smart enough to appreciate what Zelalem contributes to the side 

 

 

?

[The Dude 20,026]

10 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

if players should earn their place in the team, can you point out exactly what zelalem has contributed to deserve a starting slot?

8 assists from 16 starts. 

[Inigo 32,526]

Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

ferguson broke through under walter at the age of 19, arguably he could have done it earlier but going for 9 and then 10iar, hutton still broke through to a premier league challenging and CL competing rangers side at 19, and to ay mckay did very little to this age is a bit harsh given he played 41 times in his first season and had mccoist grew a set of balls back in division 2 we'd have stuck with him and mckay might well be pushing  over 150 games for rangers at this age

zelalem has failed to make any sort of an impact since joining us, we have played part time, full time opposition etc and aside from one early round cup game i cannot think of a game where he was the best midfielder

now granted thats not something he should get dogs abuse for, but given the rep he arrived with, the rep he STILL has (top 30 youngsters in the world blog recently for example), then the fans are rightly wondering where this supposed superstar is, and either the fans take their frustrations out on him or warburton, either way they will get criticism for funnily enough criticising

Yes, but Ferguson wasn't at any great level at all at 19. Same as Zelalem now. Hutton was very ordinary at the same age, and where you could say it was in a premier team, challenging etc, etc, you could also argue it's easier to be good around better players, yet they weren't particularly. In McKay's 41 games, he did very little.

None of them showed any sign of being more developed that Zelalem at the equivalent age. They simply didn't. Zelalem is making no less of an impact than any of them did. Ferguson, McKay and Hutton were never the best in their area of the team in any game I can recall at that age either, so why should Zelalem be expected to be?  Because we built him up as a superstar? Nobody that matters ever suggested he's a superstar. The 'impact' you say is missing with Zelalem was missing from all of the other players, yet it was less of an issue.

[Inigo 32,526]

7 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

hutton was up against premier league players, full time experienced players, if hutton was ordinary, very ordinary at 18-19 then what is zelalem considering he's barely contributed against inferior opponents than hutton was up against

And he was playing with far better players, which can just as easily be said to make things easier for Hutton. Swings and roundabouts. 

Zelalem is the same. That's the point. He's at an expected level for his age, no worse than any of the others, and people should get off his back.

[HG5 11,082]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

8 assists from 16 starts. 

Thought you were off to get pished?

Really that many?

Can think of 2 against lower tier outfits in the cups & about 4 in the league, at least one of which was a very short, square pass out wide, after which Waggy did all the hard work (I'm giving him the benefit - thousands wouldn't!).

[Drunk and disorderly. 14,356]

1 hour ago, dande101 said:

Fuck sake Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong never set foot on the moon? 

Next you will be telling me that aliens ain't real and the Bible is a fairytale. 

 

Don't be naive mate, this shit goes on all the time and I was present when they walked the moon in the film studio??

You don't seriously think Warburton agreed with Arsen Wenger to take a skinny wee teenage lad on loan and play him every single game no matter how bad he played? 

Wanna buy some magic beans?

 

 

[theclothmonster 1,704]

56 minutes ago, B1872 said:

He had some glimpses today although he's a shitebag when it comes to shooting.

He's an even bigger shitebag when it comes to tackling

[Briton 394]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

Dom Ball has played in as many games we've not won as Zelalem. Funny folk don't jump on him as quickly. The biggest problem with Zelalem is fans were expecting a superstar when he reality is he's a kid just making his first steps in the game. He's a far better player than Law is, even at 19, and contributes more (8 assists compared to two assists from Law)

No, you don't seem to be able to grasp this.   Ball is no superstar but has warranted his place in the team.  I don't think Zelalem has, simple as that.  I don't care if he's just a kid because he's not our kid.  If it was Jordon Thompson I'd make allowances because we would benefit, not some other club.  Saying that, he's not a bad squad player, i just don't think he should be first pick.  (If, or any other player, he is guaranteed a place in any way, it's a scandal).

BTW...those assist figures are bollocks.  He's created a couple of goals.  Giving automatic credit to a player because he was the last player to touch the ball* is misleading and leads to meaningless statistics.  You just demonstrated that. Zelalem has not scored, he's created little given the pitch time he's had, he's not had one MotM (not even been in the frame for one).  He is improving but currently I'd pick Law before him, or even bring McKay into the middle.

*Wallace was given an assist for a simple pass to Barrie McKay 5 yards inside his own half; that's an extreme example but shows why these 'stats' are to be taken with a pinch of salt.