We have a lean squad but half of the current first team squad need replaced

[JWAC 2,234]

We need 5 or 6 players better than the current first team? It's not a term I've heard from Mark Warburton so far but it was clear as hell at the end of the season we needed backup (it was clear some of them had downed tools too).

It's all great saying we need a lean squad but we couldn't even fill the subs bench at the end of the season. 

Do you think it's possible we'll bring in another say 5 players of first team quality with the rest being used as floating backup?

I said a few month ago Tavernier wasn't good enough and was rounded on for talking pish. I still don't think he's good enough, he is a terrible defender and if he's not able to play effectively as a winger (which is how we have him playing), he's useless for us. I don't think it's a case of him needing a challenge, we just need a better right back.

We need 2 much better central defenders. Barton will bring more solidity to the back line but our current central defence is very poor. 

With Barton and Rossiter IMO Halliday is already backup, he could possibly cover at right back and we've not seen how he'd perform there yet. With how he tackles I don't have high hope.

We need another striker, better than Waghorn and with Miller at the age he is now, do we we also need another striker or will MOH be able to step up?

So far we have brought in Joey Barton, Jordan Rossiter, Josh Windass and Matt Crooks and let some dead wood go who've had a minor influence on our season so far. I reckon only JB and JR contribute to that 5 or 6 first team players. 

I don't want to see us down to minimal numbers again next season, you never know how injuries will play out, so do you think we'll go with a bigger squad next season?

 

 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, jim white's a bear said:

We need 5 or 6 players better than the current first team? It's not a term I've heard from Mark Warburton so far but it was clear as hell at the end of the season we needed backup (it was clear some of them had downed tools too).

It's all great saying we need a lean squad but we couldn't even fill the subs bench at the end of the season. 

Do you think it's possible we'll bring in another say 5 players of first team quality with the rest being used as floating backup?

I said a few month ago Tavernier wasn't good enough and was rounded on for talking pish. I still don't think he's good enough, he is a terrible defender and if he's not able to play effectively as a winger (which is how we have him playing), he's useless for us. I don't think it's a case of him needing a challenge, we just need a better right back.

We need 2 much better central defenders. Barton will bring more solidity to the back line but our current central defence is very poor. 

With Barton and Rossiter IMO Halliday is already backup, he could possibly cover at right back and we've not seen how he'd perform there yet. With how he tackles I don't have high hope.

We need another striker, better than Waghorn and with Miller at the age he is now, do we we also need another striker or will MOH be able to step up?

So far we have brought in Joey Barton, Jordan Rossiter, Josh Windass and Matt Crooks and let some dead wood go who've had a minor influence on our season so far. I reckon only JB and JR contribute to that 5 or 6 first team players. 

I don't want to see us down to minimal numbers again next season, you never know how injuries will play out, so do you think we'll go with a bigger squad next season?

 

 

Is that half the first team that played in the final? I disagree, Mark Warburton is building a side that he will add to; he is not about to dismantle the framework of what he has put in place last season. Give that team a few additions, like Joey Barton, and see how well it does. We will be far stronger next season going by what we are doing in the transfer market so far.

[Ozblue 4,331]

We certainly need more in because apart from the 3 players already released, we have also lost 3 loan players ,so at the moment we are 2 players down from the season just gone. I'm sure Mark Warburton and Frank McParland know what is required and will be working on it already.

[Prso's headband 35,256]

Harsh on Tav he showed just what a good defender he is against cellic. Consistently covered balls over the top the full game, I thought he was excellent and can only improve defensively, he needs a decent back up for competition. 

Barton will walk into the CDM position and Rossiter will shadow him for 1-2years whilst covering if he gets injured, with Crooks also providing cover, although I think he will play as the box to box midfielder. 

I think the defence does need changed a tad although Wilson's experience and play since the turn of the year has been really great whilst Kiernan, bar the cellic game has regressed. It'll be interesting to see how much better they play with a good solid CDM infront, although they also need competition. 

A versatile forward is needed with Miller getting on. Waggy is most effective when he interchanges positions every 10 minutes or so, with him, Forrester who I believe will be crucial next season, Mckay and MoH. 

I don't think we've been lucky with injuries I think it's down to the backroom staff and the training that we very rarely get injuries. We've had two serious ones all season. So I think we will be looking at a squad of 20 maximum. 

[JWAC 2,234]

3 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Is that half the first team that played in the final? I disagree, Mark Warburton is building a side that he will add to; he is not about to dismantle the framework of what he has put in place last season. Give that team a few additions, like Joey Barton, and see how well it does. We will be far stronger next season going by what we are doing in the transfer market so far.

Yes, 3 of the 4 at the back aren't good enough IMO. Halliday isn't strong enough for defensive midfield.

[JWAC 2,234]

3 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

Harsh on Tav he showed just what a good defender he is against cellic. Consistently covered balls over the top the full game, I thought he was excellent and can only improve defensively, he needs a decent back up for competition. 

Barton will walk into the CDM position and Rossiter will shadow him for 1-2years whilst covering if he gets injured, with Crooks also providing cover, although I think he will play as the box to box midfielder. 

I think the defence does need changed a tad although Wilson's experience and play since the turn of the year has been really great whilst Kiernan, bar the cellic game has regressed. It'll be interesting to see how much better they play with a good solid CDM infront, although they also need competition. 

A versatile forward is needed with Miller getting on. Waggy is most effective when he interchanges positions every 10 minutes or so, with him, Forrester who I believe will be crucial next season, Mckay and MoH. 

I don't think we've been lucky with injuries I think it's down to the backroom staff and the training that we very rarely get injuries. We've had two serious ones all season. So I think we will be looking at a squad of 20 maximum. 

Not sure I agree with that, we've not had many injuries but it was to a couple of important players and those 2 injuries changed the way we played significantly. One of those players wasn't even at the club at xmas

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, jim white's a bear said:

Yes, 3 of the 4 at the back aren't good enough IMO. Halliday isn't strong enough for defensive midfield.

With additions they might all do better. I don't think we are in a position to get rid of half our team and replace them; nor am I convinced that Mark Warburton would want to do that anyway. He is building a side, and with a strong midfield; a squad element perhaps added to the defence; and possibly another striker, we could be formidable in challenging for the Title next season.

[Prso's headband 35,256]

2 minutes ago, jim white's a bear said:

Not sure I agree with that, we've not had many injuries but it was to a couple of important players and those 2 injuries changed the way we played significantly. One of those players wasn't even at the club at xmas

Waghorn's didn't affect us that much at all IMO. I thought Miller and then Forrester stepped up to the plate significantly. His injury was an awkward landing on a honking pitch

Forresters injury had a worse impact, I think we missed his drive and technical ability a lot, especially at the weekend. His injury was a very poor tackle so take they two injuries into account any others have been niggles, no long term ones with pulled hamstrings etc, which I think is down to training and the medical staff

[JWAC 2,234]

1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said:

With additions they might all do better. I don't think we are in a position to get rid of half our team and replace them; nor am I convinced that Mark Warburton would want to do that anyway. He is building a side, and with a strong midfield; a squad element perhaps added to the defence; and possibly another striker, we could be formidable in challenging for the Title next season.

That's the point I was trying to make in the OP, I can't see MW having players hanging around as backup but at the same time it's clear we have a terrible central defence.

I lost count of the number of headers we lost against Hibs all season, Saturday's mistakes were not forgivable, the same clueless mistakes we'll see more often in the premiership. 

 

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

For me starters capable for the top tier. Wallace, McKay, Miller, Waghorn, Forrester with Miller more than capable, but I can see him being used more sparingly and being brought on as a sub to change a game. I envisage MOH being used up front, where I think he is much more effective. 

Fod's, Kiernan, Wilson, Tav's, not good enough for starting, unless in Tav's case a place made for him further up the park, because he just aint a right back. Holt and Andy squad players.

I want to hear and see two decent imposing and mobile central defenders and a right back as a priority, otherwise we can forget about challenging the scum.

Then there are further players we need to bring in to add further strength and depth to the squad overall, so again a major rebuilding job to be done in a short time. 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,656]

No offence to the OP but does anybody else feel like the whole "we need to replace half our team" or the "we need players of a higher quality" threads have been done to death? 

Everybody knows we need a higher quality of player, Warburton included, and he's already taken positive steps to address that with plenty more signings likely still to come.

With the number of times its brought up you would think we are going to rest on our laurels and that's clearly not the case.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

I was watching discussion between the commentator and co-commentators from Rangers TV last week, and the issue of O'Halloran came up. It was interesting that there seemed to be a general consensus that he cannot play to our style. The commentator appeared to think he will adapt through pre-season training though. I have my doubts about O'Halloran's ability in our system, but I hope he proves me wrong.

[NeoGeo7 10,367]

This is what's going on, it's a simple first in first out method....

So the first in were those from mccoists reign, they are being shown the door first. Those who were signed first by Warburton will gradually be pushed down the pecking order one by one and then moved on out the club as we continue to improve the overall quality of the team.

lets say out of 100mor squad has an average rating of 65. Well replacing anyone below 65 (Clark, law, templeton, Shiels, bell) with people over 65 (Barton, rossiter etc.) will push the average rating over 65.

if you don't trim the squad players get unhappy and they aren't a close knit unit exhibit A, them. Their squad was way too big and look what happened.

its a tough thing to do especially when you create bonds with players, but it needs to happen

[giffnockger 4,840]

5 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

No offence to the OP but does anybody else feel like the whole "we need to replace half our team" or the "we need players of a higher quality" threads have been done to death? 

Everybody knows we need a higher quality of player, Warburton included, and he's already taken positive steps to address that with plenty more signings likely still to come.

With the number of times its brought up you would think we are going to rest on our laurels and that's clearly not the case.

Couldn't agree more mate, clearly the squad we finished with this season will be diferrent from the one that starts next. Also don't think it's fair to say Tav is rubbish!

[Bad Robot 21,125]

I think having a lean squad at our club is a mistake as we play in to many matches throughout the season.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,656]

1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said:

I was watching discussion between the commentator and co-commentators from Rangers TV last week, and the issue of O'Halloran came up. It was interesting that there seemed to be a general consensus that he cannot play to our style. The commentator appeared to think he will adapt through pre-season training though. I have my doubts about O'Halloran's ability in our system, but I hope he proves me wrong.

I'll give him pre season and some more time next season to see how he develops but I don't think he fits our style of play at all.

He's a player who could be an effective option from the bench if we need to change things up a bit during a game but Warburton doesn't really do that and with his whole "plan b is to do plan a better" approach it's not likely to change either (one of the few things I don't agree with).

I genuinely think Stewart from Dundee Utd would have been a better fit for us than MOH has been but he would have cost a lot more.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

6 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

I'll give him pre season and some more time next season to see how he develops but I don't think he fits our style of play at all.

He's a player who could be an effective option from the bench if we need to change things up a bit during a game but Warburton doesn't really do that and with his whole "plan b is to do plan a better" approach it's not likely to change either (one of the few things I don't agree with).

I genuinely think Stewart from Dundee Utd would have been a better fit for us than MOH has been but he would have cost a lot more.

I noticed it when we played against QTS, but I thought he was just needing to find his feet, but I think it was a Morton match at Ibrox a few weeks later where I saw no difference at all and then had my doubts. He seemed lost on the sideline through the whole match.

[JWAC 2,234]

11 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

No offence to the OP but does anybody else feel like the whole "we need to replace half our team" or the "we need players of a higher quality" threads have been done to death? 

Everybody knows we need a higher quality of player, Warburton included, and he's already taken positive steps to address that with plenty more signings likely still to come.

With the number of times its brought up you would think we are going to rest on our laurels and that's clearly not the case.

I probably didn't express my OP clearly  It's the thing that MW always says about having a lean squad, we won't be able to get rid of those who probably aren't good enough because they're on contracts but I still can't see him having them having around not playing. 

He's been pretty quick to tell players they won't get games (like McGregor).

I didn't even mention Fodderingham

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,656]

9 minutes ago, giffnockger said:

Couldn't agree more mate, clearly the squad we finished with this season will be diferrent from the one that starts next. Also don't think it's fair to say Tav is rubbish!

Tavernier was absolutely rotten on Saturday (he took a knock early on and never really recovered from it) and he needs to work on his defending but I don't think a right back is a priority the same way other people do.

Because of how we play our full backs are always going to be encouraged to attack and for where we are I think we would struggle to find one who is as effective at attacking as Tav has been and I don't think we would have the money to afford a higher calibre full back who is equally as good at attacking and defending.

Loads of people talk about pushing him into midfield but if we did that he would be as ineffective as MOH has been because he wouldn't have the same space to play in that he gets when he comes from full back.

He needs to improve defensively but we have far bigger problems that need to be addressed before we look to replace him.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

We certainly need cover at left and right back - if either injured who steps in? 

Also someone good up front and central! 

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

I know MW has a philosophy of 'defending from the front' and as a team, but we really have to sort our defence out.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Having too many defenders can be a problem, because it's not an area you want to be rotating too much; however, it's a good point about cover and so on. 

[Smile 26,600]

I think come the start of the season our team will have a lot of new faces, we built a team to get us out the championship now we will build a team to win the Spl.

[Ben10 2,254]

Tavernier ? Replaced ? Get a fuckin grip.

[TMB 14,167]

I think MOH will be a dud.  When the ball's at his feet he just doesn't have the ability.