K.A.I 36,183 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 minute ago, CoplandStandBear said: The club don't give a fuck about guilty or not guilty, they aren't a court of law. If you are up in court you're guilty by association and they'll take their ticket off you and sell it to someone on the waiting list. It's their club and they can refuse entry to whoever they like. Totally understand but it's still immoral hence the whole point of this thread, which you've missed Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDak 786 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 21 minutes ago, K.A.I said: See people should take note - I don't agree with your narrative at the end but you can tell from that your a decent guy and putting a different point of view across and opening up debate I respect that you've not used the snifey buzz words others have used - that's the key IMO Cheers, mate. As I say, I don't think the guys were necessarily wrong in what they did (if you run the length of a pitch to antagonise a man you need to understand you're likely to get slapped). But in the eyes of the law I don't think they've got much of a leg to stand on. The bar is so high to comply with the self-defence defence that you've practically got to be cornered and literally have no other option than to fight. Whether the Club is right to ban the guys is another question. As some have said, given the courts will probably ban anyone found guilty anyway it does seem a bit unnecessary, and especially after the statement that was released, but then on the other hand if the fella is banned by the court then the Club ban could just be a way of saying "look, we've done something" to the arseholes in the SFA, or whoever. The thing is there's so much politicising involved with this the Club might no have the option. The guys at the top aren't like us, working class guys, and I imagine they have to make decisions based not on what we think but politics - as shit as that sounds. What if they were told that if they weren't seen to be doing something this "strict liability" nonsense was one step closer? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Corky True Legend said: 1. UEFA nipped the trouble in the bud. No need for further action. 2. Don't know what you are talking about. I have no interest whatsoever in English League football. 3. Do you want Bears banned? You seem to have ignored that part. There was no more trouble inside stadiums however there was more trouble outside which UEFA ignored claiming it wasn't their responsibility. Milwall fans charged Barnsley fans inside Wembley at the end of the playoff final. Players were also pelted with coins and other stuff thrown from the stands. The FA and EFL are still investigating and to date have yet to follow through on charges for Milwall. This happened the same weekend as the Scottish Cup final Iirc. I couldn't give a shit less if bears are banned or not. If the club feel they have been sufficient reason to ban them then that's up to them. As I said at the time of the final I simply don't buy the "our fans were all noble defenders of the club" line. Some were. Others were pissed up arseholes who saw an opportunity for a scrap and jumped on it. If they are banned then tough titty tbh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 42 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said: That's a badge of honour! Brenda likes this Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky True Legend 2,682 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 5 minutes ago, The Dude said: There was no more trouble inside stadiums however there was more trouble outside which UEFA ignored claiming it wasn't their responsibility. Milwall fans charged Barnsley fans inside Wembley at the end of the playoff final. Players were also pelted with coins and other stuff thrown from the stands. The FA and EFL are still investigating and to date have yet to follow through on charges for Milwall. This happened the same weekend as the Scottish Cup final Iirc. I couldn't give a shit less if bears are banned or not. If the club feel they have been sufficient reason to ban them then that's up to them. As I said at the time of the final I simply don't buy the "our fans were all noble defenders of the club" line. Some were. Others were pissed up arseholes who saw an opportunity for a scrap and jumped on it. If they are banned then tough titty tbh. Wouldn't like to share a trench with you, then. bombaybadboy08 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.A.I 36,183 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 7 minutes ago, BigDak said: Cheers, mate. As I say, I don't think the guys were necessarily wrong in what they did (if you run the length of a pitch to antagonise a man you need to understand you're likely to get slapped). But in the eyes of the law I don't think they've got much of a leg to stand on. The bar is so high to comply with the self-defence defence that you've practically got to be cornered and literally have no other option than to fight. Whether the Club is right to ban the guys is another question. As some have said, given the courts will probably ban anyone found guilty anyway it does seem a bit unnecessary, and especially after the statement that was released, but then on the other hand if the fella is banned by the court then the Club ban could just be a way of saying "look, we've done something" to the arseholes in the SFA, or whoever. The thing is there's so much politicising involved with this the Club might no have the option. The guys at the top aren't like us, working class guys, and I imagine they have to make decisions based not on what we think but politics - as shit as that sounds. What if they were told that if they weren't seen to be doing something this "strict liability" nonsense was one step closer? Mate that's perfect what you say - a wee opinion difference but you can put it across well and objectively Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoplandStandBear 995 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 10 minutes ago, K.A.I said: Totally understand but it's still immoral hence the whole point of this thread, which you've missed It says so on the tickets: 3.3 The Season Ticket will remain the property of the Club at all times and must be produced together with evidence of your identity if required to do so by any official, steward or employee of the Club or any police officer. The Club reserves the right to require the immediate return of the Season Ticket at any time. 5.3 The Holder shall be responsible for compliance and observance by the Holder with these Conditions and any ground regulations governing persons entering, present at or leaving the Stadium as may be specified by the Club from time to time. Misconduct by the Holder and/or failure to adhere to these Conditions or the Ground Regulations or the Holder acting in a manner which the Club considers is detrimental to its interests or is likely in the reasonable opinion of the Club, to bring football or the Club into disrepute shall permit the Club to confiscate or forfeit (in each case without compensation) this Card and/or ban the Holder from attending future matches or other events at the Stadium for such period of time as the Club deems appropriate. If folk don't like it then they don't need to buy a ticket, but you can't say you weren't warned. Being up in court for it even if you plead not guilty will fall under 'detrimental to the interests of Rangers' or bringing the club into disrepute. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.A.I 36,183 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, CoplandStandBear said: It says so on the tickets: 3.3 The Season Ticket will remain the property of the Club at all times and must be produced together with evidence of your identity if required to do so by any official, steward or employee of the Club or any police officer. The Club reserves the right to require the immediate return of the Season Ticket at any time. 5.3 The Holder shall be responsible for compliance and observance by the Holder with these Conditions and any ground regulations governing persons entering, present at or leaving the Stadium as may be specified by the Club from time to time. Misconduct by the Holder and/or failure to adhere to these Conditions or the Ground Regulations or the Holder acting in a manner which the Club considers is detrimental to its interests or is likely in the reasonable opinion of the Club, to bring football or the Club into disrepute shall permit the Club to confiscate or forfeit (in each case without compensation) this Card and/or ban the Holder from attending future matches or other events at the Stadium for such period of time as the Club deems appropriate. If folk don't like it then they don't need to buy a ticket, but you can't say you weren't warned. Being up in court for it even if you plead not guilty will fall under 'detrimental to the interests of Rangers' or bringing the club into disrepute. Hey that's fine in that case - not read what you've provided - but Rangers are being wanks in the extreme if they follow that through and deserve to have zero season ticket holders next season then Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombaybadboy08 15,660 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 minute ago, CoplandStandBear said: It says so on the tickets: 3.3 The Season Ticket will remain the property of the Club at all times and must be produced together with evidence of your identity if required to do so by any official, steward or employee of the Club or any police officer. The Club reserves the right to require the immediate return of the Season Ticket at any time. 5.3 The Holder shall be responsible for compliance and observance by the Holder with these Conditions and any ground regulations governing persons entering, present at or leaving the Stadium as may be specified by the Club from time to time. Misconduct by the Holder and/or failure to adhere to these Conditions or the Ground Regulations or the Holder acting in a manner which the Club considers is detrimental to its interests or is likely in the reasonable opinion of the Club, to bring football or the Club into disrepute shall permit the Club to confiscate or forfeit (in each case without compensation) this Card and/or ban the Holder from attending future matches or other events at the Stadium for such period of time as the Club deems appropriate. If folk don't like it then they don't need to buy a ticket, but you can't say you weren't warned. Being up in court for it even if you plead not guilty will fall under 'detrimental to the interests of Rangers'. It's not like they went out and started fighing on the streets in Rangers name, it was inside the stadium and the club are well aware of the circumstances surrounding these guys and again if Hibs fans hadn't entered the field to attack our players then the Rangers supporters would have stayed in the stands. Some people can claim they were just looking for any excuse to fight but if that's the case why do we not invade the park more often? They shouldn't have taken the payment if they already knew who these lads were and as I said - the fans took to the field to defend their own, something the cowards in the boardroom would do well to learn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,241 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 7 minutes ago, CoplandStandBear said: It says so on the tickets: 3.3 The Season Ticket will remain the property of the Club at all times and must be produced together with evidence of your identity if required to do so by any official, steward or employee of the Club or any police officer. The Club reserves the right to require the immediate return of the Season Ticket at any time. 5.3 The Holder shall be responsible for compliance and observance by the Holder with these Conditions and any ground regulations governing persons entering, present at or leaving the Stadium as may be specified by the Club from time to time. Misconduct by the Holder and/or failure to adhere to these Conditions or the Ground Regulations or the Holder acting in a manner which the Club considers is detrimental to its interests or is likely in the reasonable opinion of the Club, to bring football or the Club into disrepute shall permit the Club to confiscate or forfeit (in each case without compensation) this Card and/or ban the Holder from attending future matches or other events at the Stadium for such period of time as the Club deems appropriate. If folk don't like it then they don't need to buy a ticket, but you can't say you weren't warned. Being up in court for it even if you plead not guilty will fall under 'detrimental to the interests of Rangers' or bringing the club into disrepute. What do you think about club taking money for STs knowing they were going to ban the fans? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 10 minutes ago, Corky True Legend said: Wouldn't like to share a trench with you, then. That's the thing. We aren't in trenches. We're supporting a football team. tannerall 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getstiffed 8,863 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I could have been convicted of a crime, served time (even a so called "life sentence") but I could buy a season right now no problems. I'm accused of a crime and I'm banned. Whether you think anyone should have been on the park or not is irrelevant, surely any of you see that to ban someone who hasnt even been found guilty is crazy. John, I hope everything works out for you mate Copland bear, K.A.I and dougie76 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeIsBlue 66,595 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Has arseface apologized yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir David G 0 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 24 minutes ago, bombaybadboy08 said: It's not like they went out and started fighing on the streets in Rangers name, it was inside the stadium and the club are well aware of the circumstances surrounding these guys and again if Hibs fans hadn't entered the field to attack our players then the Rangers supporters would have stayed in the stands. Some people can claim they were just looking for any excuse to fight but if that's the case why do we not invade the park more often? They shouldn't have taken the payment if they already knew who these lads were and as I said - the fans took to the field to defend their own, something the cowards in the boardroom would do well to learn. The pitch invaders must have had some eyesight to claim to have seen any players getting attacked I mean they must have been about 80 yards away? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky True Legend 2,682 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 23 minutes ago, The Dude said: That's the thing. We aren't in trenches. We're supporting a football team. And most of us support each other as well. And as far as Scottish football is concerned, we ARE in the trenches. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chineseboy 1,563 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Sir David G said: The pitch invaders must have had some eyesight to claim to have seen any players getting attacked I mean they must have been about 80 yards away? Admin..we have one here! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.A.I 36,183 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 40 minutes ago, Corky True Legend said: Wouldn't like to share a trench with you, then. He's let himself down with that - was sticking up For hi earlier - he's went way down in my estimation Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir David G 0 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 The attempted child abduction can hardly be classed as self defence either ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky True Legend 2,682 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Just now, Sir David G said: The attempted child abduction can hardly be classed as self defence either ! We sure do have one here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir David G 0 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 5 minutes ago, Chineseboy said: Admin..we have one here! No need to grass me up to admin - let me guess your favourite player is lee Wallace ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.A.I 36,183 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Sir David G said: The attempted child abduction can hardly be classed as self defence either ! @gogzy mon mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,364 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Sir David G said: The attempted child abduction can hardly be classed as self defence either ! Papish face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.A.I 36,183 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 minute ago, Corky True Legend said: We sure do have one here. There's a few rangers fans on here that agree with him that's who id look at mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger4life_1872 29,445 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 minute ago, Sir David G said: No need to grass me up to admin - let me guess your favourite player is lee Wallace ? Fenian bastard Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three stripes 411 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 5 minutes ago, Sir David G said: The attempted child abduction can hardly be classed as self defence either ! The dad of that wee boy should be done with child neglect,trying it on with rangers fans when your boy is next to you. Well done to the Rangers fan trying to get him out the way. dougie76 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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