KeyserSoze 14,438 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I posted this in the transfer forum thought I'd start a thread in here for a bit of discussion. MW was explicit in his views taking the club forward when he arrived. (talking about the board) "if we go there with short term fixes, that is never going to be the right thing to do. I want young, hungry players who really want to be here, supplemented by one or two senior players" over half his recent additions have been early to mid thirties "senior players" I'm not complaining btw I'm just making the point - has MW changed his vision for our club? I have noticed our style of play has also changed, more long balls, less short corners, less pressing after losing possession and the quick passing we loved last year appears to have been adapted to suit. I trust the gaffer btw. I'm just starting to think he has changed his mind quite a bit. Of course he can do this as he sets us up for the challenge ahead, but I hope he doesn't compromise too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtyard Bear 41,357 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 You can only play with the cards your dealt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said: I posted this in the transfer forum thought I'd start a thread in here for a bit of discussion. MW was explicit in his views taking the club forward when he arrived. (talking about the board) "if we go there with short term fixes, that is never going to be the right thing to do. I want young, hungry players who really want to be here, supplemented by one or two senior players" over half his recent additions have been early to mid thirties "senior players" I'm not complaining btw I'm just making the point - has MW changed his vision for our club? I have noticed our style of play has also changed, more long balls, less short corners, less pressing after losing possession and the quick passing we loved last year appears to have been adapted to suit. I trust the gaffer btw. I'm just starting to think he has changed his mind quite a bit. Of course he can do this as he sets us up for the challenge ahead, but I hope he doesn't compromise too much. 4 of nine signings is less than half (Hill, Gilks, Kranjcar, Barton). It looks like he has tweaked the style a little but I don't think he's ever said that wouldn't happen. There were times last season where there were small, but noticeable, tweaks to the tactics; both full backs going forward at the same time so often, a second cm sitting a little bit deeper, more rotation between the front three during games. It's still the same 'base' style with slight tweaks to adjust to the different players at our disposal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I dont think his signings are too far removed from what he publically stated he wants. However, I do think both Barton and Krancjar have actually slowed us down in midfield which i dont like at all.. I also think Barton sits too deep and therefore either he or the other defenders then have no options for a short pass - so go long. At the moment I dont think Krancjar and Barton should be starting together, as we then lack pace and energy in midfield. Playing these players at the right time and in the right position doesn't compromise his style whatsover. However, playing them together makes us considerably weaker. I dont think MW knows his best starting 11 which is an issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Nothing wrong with a bit of pragmatism - if we were the type of fans that would give him a couple of more seasons to build a team I suspect we would see more youth - but given we can't even draw a game without the wolves howling he is supplementing the squad with more experience to deliver the only thing we accept - winning - so this pragmatism helps buy him the time to keep moving the squad forward - and we are still pretty pleasing on the eye! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I'm sure he can see just fine, mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Deacon 54,676 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said: I'm sure he can see just fine, mate Sure I've seen him with glasses on before actually Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy cox 664 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Plenty wanted a CDM to protect the back four he delivers in Barton and Rossiter,Plenty wanted more experience and better quality he has/is delivering,Plenty wanted a Plan B he delivers. He is still bringing young guys to the club who hopefully will play a future part along with the young guys he brought last season.All in all I think he is delivering pretty much what most wanted for on many occasions last season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladimirWeiss69 791 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Tbf as long as they are quality I dont care about the age, but I wouldnt want too many senior players within the squad if you know what I mean, I think we have the right balance now as inexperience and lack of leadership could have been seen as something we were significantly lacking last season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz52 11,837 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Foderingham - 25 Gilks - 34 Tavernier - 24 Kiernan - 25 Wilson - 24 Wallace - 29 Hill - 37 Hodson - 24 Halliday - 24 Holt - 23 Barton - 33 Kranjcar - 32 Rossiter - 19 Windass - 22 Crooks - 22 Forrester - 25 O'Halloran - 25 Miller - 36 McKay - 21 Waghorn - 26 Dodoo - 21 -------------- Potentially; Garner (28), Lescott (34), Senderos (31). I know there's youngsters etc making the squad but that group of players are more or less the ones we'll see most of this season. It's still a very young squad with their best years ahead of them really, they say a footballer peaks around 28-30 don't they? I don't think his vision has changed at all, I think he's just signing players because they're a good fit for us. Centre backs tend to have a longer shelf life than midfielders/attackers as well Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosebrad 452 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 The average age of the squad including the 3 potentially is just over 26 years of age, I think that pretty decent Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_4 33,998 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Last year our young and dynamic squad needed some steel and experience. We've brought that in, I'm largely happy with it. You forget how young (or inexperienced) some of our team are. Our average is is mid 20s, which is great, and experience is passed on from the older guys. No issue with that at all. Krancjar is this biggest question mark for me. Hugely talented, but is he counter productive to our fast paced, pressing style? Good problem for the gaffer to have IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace 3,556 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 The Op has raised a very valid point, however, for me, our signings are a mixture of old heads & young hearts. There is no doubt that with a step up in class that the Premiership will bring (and it will .. have no doubt) there were clear signs from last season that we required some more "experienced" players who knew when to drive forward & when to pass back to retain possession. However, that experience is counter balanced by the youthful signings made, players with pace & energy who can make the runs that our older heads may not be able to make but can utilise while in possession. I think we now have a mixture of youth AND experience and that gives the manager options, something that is vital for our success Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy 1,200 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 You have to be able to tweek and change the team's methodology from time to time. That's what makes successful teams in my opinion. Also, there were many on here crying out for the demise of the short corners, me amongst them. With the introduction of Garner, I hope we see more balls into the box. I've not seen too much of us this year but the same old problems appear to be continuing, particularly in defence. I still think we're good enough for this league, easy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harlands plater 16,933 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I think the tactics have to be a bit fluid on a game by game basis, our opponents all have their own way of playing so we must be adaptable to a certain extent. Ideally we would always play the way we started last season as that was the most pleasing on the eye, but needs must. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyalfollower 1,543 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 How can 30 be old? I'm 31 you cheeky bastards Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyc06 6,902 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I can see your point, when Barton & Kranjcar play in the middle of the park it suddenly becomes a bit slower. There's good quality there right enough but the play does seem to slow down at times. With the two defenders we're currently looking at, both are past the 30 mark so real long term value there. I think the gaffer has made a mistake with bringing in Hill and knows it, hence why we are now looking at another experienced defender. Should Lescott sign, I would be very surprised to see Senderos also sign. Although i personally dont rate Lescott anymore, he has played at a very high level and his experience could be valuable if playing alongside Wilson/Keirnan (take your pick). Other than Kenny Miller, who for me should be used as a sub this year, our front line is full of youth which is perfect. Especially as so many can rotate and play a number of positions going forward. Overall, I dont think the mixture is too bad however do agree that when Barton & Kranjcar play together in the middle of the park we dont seem as sharp in creating openings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prso's headband 34,990 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 We needed the experience and that bit of magic in the midfield, we have that with Barton and Krancjar. We needed the experience hugely in defence, if Lescott signs that's that covered. We needed a striker who can put away that one chance that could win us a game, if Garner signs we have that. I think the experienced players we have brought in has been vital. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lloyd72 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 What we've done is actually brilliant team management when you think about it. We've brought in a Spine of the team that is full of youth and a Spine full of experience and both will compliment the other with the youthful ones being able to take the pressure off players like Barton and Niko using their pace and Energy making them better, the experienced ones can then help them improve while also leading them on the pitch and helping them through the game as a calming influence which is something we really could have done with last season in the cup final, I don't think the vision for the club has changed I think the gaffer has just noticed weaknesses in the side mentally and wanted to address it by bringing in experienced heads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffbear 4,095 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Given the shite we've watched for a few years and the mess we were in then right now he could sign methusela and I'd agree with the decision.. Niko..Barton. .Lescott ..senderos..yes in their 30s but players most of us thought we'd never see again at Ibrox ..mix that with exciting talent like Rossiter. Mckay . Waghorn . Garner . Windass and Forester and we've the making of a very very good side capable of winning this league . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianferguson 2,619 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 There will only ever be one vision or philosophy at Ibrox and that's WINNING EVERY game. Pretty, expansive football with a young hungry squad means absolutely nothing while points are being spilled and Warburton has quickly realised that. I think with a couple of exceptions that he's got a squad capable of challenging the tims (Hill looks done and sadly the brilliant Kranjcar seems to have lost all mobiliy) and the signing of Lescott would be the best bit of business we've done imo, and vital to our challenge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderbear 150 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Our squad was majorly on the young side last year the average age was about 23/24. The old adage you can't win anything with kids does tend to be true bar the odd exception and we've added a spine of experience to the team. Our first 11 will now likely be split roughly 50-50 between older 28+ and younger hungry players. You could also say that all the older players he has signed tick the hungry category, in that they haven't won much (or in Lescott/ Senderos much recently) and will want to add trophies to their careers with retirement looming. On the shift to a slightly more direct style of play, you could argue that football as a whole has changed a fair bit in the last year. Leicester winning the league, and a fairly tight defensive Euros the shift in a move away from tiki-taki to either a counter attacking style or the German style of more direct possession based stuff where the CHs sit deeper to make counter attacking styles less effective. Scottish teams were already going to try hit us on the counter and hope for success at the set-piece, so we have to adapt. I'd much rather have that than a stubborn Wenger type who plays the same attacking way almost out of principle despite the same issues occurring week in week out at the other end. Winning the league is all about consistency and as our years of success under Walter Smith proved that comes from being solid at the back first and foremost. We'll still play the high tempo silky stuff in their half, just expect more direct play from our GK, Defence, and DM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
whytes3 254 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I think the signing of more "senior" players is as a result of a number of factors. Firstly, I think in reviewing last season, the lack of experienced heads in the team meant that on occasion we were looking for leaders in the dressing room when things weren't going so well. Bringing guys like Barton, Hill, Krancjar in has added that dynamic. Secondly, the manager has spoken a number of times recently about the current transfer market and the sums being spent down south and this will have had a significantly limiting effect on who we can bring in within our budget. We need battle-ready players to come in for our 1st season back in the top flight and our financial ability dictates that this will come form guys who are right at the start of their career (1st team career anyway) such as Rossiter and Jordan Thompson or players moving towards the latter stages of their career (Barton, etc). Thirdly (and linked to the above), the expectation is that we are back in the top flight and will be challenging for the title. To do that we need players desperate to win titles. Guys like Barton, Krancjar have enjoyed high profile careers but have a pretty much empty drawer at home where the medals to reflect their career should be. This is a last chance for them to add some major trophies to their career record. Fourthly, and again linked back to number 2, in signing older, high profile players we are further raising the profile of the club as a place where younger, hungry players will want to go if they are seeing guys like Barton going instead of playing in the EPL. Fifthly, the manger will also be looking at what has worked in the SPL in recent times and the clubs we are up against. The likes of the Sheep have filled their squad with experienced journeymen which has seen them do well in the last couple of years and it would be foolish to ignore that. Some youngers players struggled with the physicality last season (Odouwa as an example) so it may be he feels the need to have more experience in the squad to protect younger players. Personally, I think the balance is just about right within the squad in terms of the age range of players for the stage we are at. Over time I would absolutely like to see us in a position where we are producing our own younger players (or buying in younger players) but the aim just now is to make sure we come back with a bang and then look to kick on from there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wearethepeople72 1,844 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Barton I can totally understand, we needed a holding and someone who can add a bit of steel and leadership in the midfield. I have no doubt that he'll provide that and I'm confident he will be a successful signing looking at how well he played with Burnley last season. Krancjar I'm not so sure about. He definitely has quality but he looks unfit and hasn't played alot of football recently. He's a luxury player and will do the job against the lesser teams if we can get him fit. Don't understand the signing of Hill whatsoever. Since we're in for another experienced midfielder, I doubt Hill will play many games. Gilks is just a second goalkeeper which we required so I have no problems with that signing. That's just my first impressions, only time will tell though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 9 hours ago, Courtyard Bear said: You can only play with the cards your dealt. No if you're not playing cards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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