We need to sort this.

[RFCRobertson 11,777]

4 hours ago, K.A.I said:

I've read 4 match reports now across the internet and not one mention of it being offside. I'd like to see a clip of it.

It's up on RTV in the match archive. 

22:32 it's at, he's just past Wilson as the ball is passed to him.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, RFCRobertson said:

It's up on RTV in the match archive. 

22:32 it's at, he's just past Wilson as the ball is passed to him.

Watched it on Sky Sports News there. Didn't look off-side tbh. Would like a better view/camera angle to be sure.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

4 minutes ago, RFCRobertson said:

If that's the case then Mark could be going for a plan B or at least a change of formation. 

Either way, I think he plans to have the wingers and midfield feed into Garner or something like that. But too have Garner rotate to the wings would be a really strange move. 

I think we'd master the 4-3-3 system but everything has to be in sync for it to work. I would have a flat back of three with a Sweeper in behind the line for support or cover. The midfield I would have one in holding and two in front of him. this will help the defensive line  I would have one striker behind and two in front. Play wide and make sure our shape is maintained and play man to man marking so everyone knows what they are doing.

[RFCRobertson 11,777]

Just now, K.A.I said:

Watched it on Sky Sports News there. Didn't look off-side tbh. Would like a better view/camera angle tbh.

The folk I talked to at the game and my own view, it was very obvious but due to the angle of the camera it looks tighter. Everyone i've spoke to about it, that was in CF said it was a clear yard or 2. 

[RFCRobertson 11,777]

1 minute ago, Sweetheart said:

I think we'd master the 4-3-3 system but everything has to be in sync for it to work. I would have a flat back of three with a Sweeper in behind the line for support or cover. The midfield I would have one in holding and two in front of him. this will help the defensive line  I would have one striker behind and two in front. Play wide and make sure our shape is maintained and play man to man marking so everyone knows what they are doing.

Completely agree, the two wingers and two attacking mids should rotate but the back should remain solid. With Tav/Hodson/Wallace commicating their runs. 

We must do zonal marking due to the way we switch players about, which i'm not keen on but due to our style of play it forces our hand. We do have a solid playstyle that is aggressive but we slow it down when we get up front. But that's always due to lack of targets in the box. So a out n out striker like garner should be a good boost. 

[HG5 11,112]

2 minutes ago, Sweetheart said:

I think we'd master the 4-3-3 system but everything has to be in sync for it to work. I would have a flat back of three with a Sweeper in behind the line for support or cover. The midfield I would have one in holding and two in front of him. this will help the defensive line  I would have one striker behind and two in front. Play wide and make sure our shape is maintained and play man to man marking so everyone knows what they are doing.

Good point about everything needing to be in synch for it to work.

Good players can pull off things like rotation - it may be asking a lot of players who've been playing in the divisions we've been pulling them from.

[ForeverAndEver 71,460]

11 minutes ago, RFCRobertson said:

It's up on RTV in the match archive. 

22:32 it's at, he's just past Wilson as the ball is passed to him.

Think Tav's playing him onside.

[RFCRobertson 11,777]

Just now, ForeverAndEver said:

Think Tav's playing him onside.

Wish my pc was working, could've done us up with a gif for it  

I was focusing mainly on Mcdonald being on the shoulder of Wilson in the replay, in real life it looked like he was between Wes and the goals 

[MasterD 7,435]

100% onside

[SwallowsHisOwnSpunk 7,798]

'Not being thickle'

Aye right half of the posters on this forum are as thickle as it gets! ask the majority on here about Tav only two or three months ago and he was completely pish and needing replaced now he is a great fullback, ask about McKay last week and he was our best player now this week he has been shite all season and needing dropped, Kiernan after the Celic game was a quality CB with great potential and Wilson was atrocious a few months later and Kiernan is totally pish while Wilson is a solid CB.

 

Our fans need to wake up, look past more than two or three games at a time, they need to realise that it's a long season and players are bound to have dips in form, if they didn't have dips in form they would be playing at a higher level than the SPL, numerous posters are making themselves look like fucking idiots.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

7 hours ago, HG5 said:

Good point about everything needing to be in synch for it to work.

Good players can pull off things like rotation - it may be asking a lot of players who've been playing in the divisions we've been pulling them from.

I think if we did this as a 4-3-3 training exercise it would help with synchronisation. It would help the team to get the feel of the 4-3-3 formation and where they need to be in positioned.

 

[Sweetheart 8,458]

This video is worth a look. It explains how Cogi training and Sense ball training works. I think this type of training would help the team master 4-3-3.

 

[gsa 3,906]

16 hours ago, K.A.I said:

If the 3/4 usual guys could reply nice and early with their wee speeches regarding alleged "over-reactions/we won, what more you want?" etc then that would be fantastic.

A few things for me :

Like Dundee last week I am delighted with the 3 points but that wasn't pretty. We need to keep learning lessons even when we win, like today and last week.

Of course 2 wins is 2 wins and you don't get any more points for playing well. Yup, Totally understood, that's not lost on me. I promise.

These 3 inter-changable forwards for me need to be addressed. I appreciate it's Warburton's ethos so not changed, but altered.

We have Dodoo who can't trap a bag of sand if we are honest but got a couple of positive comments from me in other games because he was a presence in the box but when he's out on the wings trying to work magic and the odd time he got a ball inside (and it actually got past a Motherwell defender) there was no-one there as usual.

I don't even think Garner will make much difference in that regard. He might be a good player but I don't think this system works in games against the better teams in Scotland.

We made the changes a bit quicker this week. Was it 60 minutes instead of 70 this week? the changes should have been made at half-time and gave us maximum time to get the 2 goals we needed and been able to breathe a bit easier.

Barton has done absolutely nothing of note so far - all he does is run is mouth off. Some of it is quite funny and I enjoy it, but it renders a lot of what he says when he doesn't back anything up on the pitch. Nico slightly better in regards to him making a couple of good probing balls when he came on. It was something a bit different and actually asked a couple of questions of the Motherwell defence.

First half was really flat and predictable. We all seen the team selection at the start and knew our midfield would be devoid of ideas and pace/urgency,

I won't finish the OP without mentioning some of the positives.

Miller again - for all his legs are done, he's popped up with another really important goal. Which he is capable of, but he is only capable if he's in positions like and the position he took up in the box against Dundee last week. He's still an asset to us doing that, but not in the inter-changable 3 man forward line Warburton likes. It harps back to me first point about tweaking it somehow.

Character - IMO we didn't really start playing until the last half an hour with it all to do, but we still managed it. We kept going right until the end which is something I've praised Celtic for the last 20-odd years. You've got to be proud of the way we went about that.

Rossiter - Again, I think he was the best player we had on the park. I'd be looking to build a team around him instead of Halliday (which Warburton seems to do)

A mixture of good and bad. Warburton is a fantastic manager and I like his style but he really does need to learn to change things and develop a decent plan B at times. I'm not letting the wins against Dundee and Motherwell today hide the fact. It's a dangerous road to go down. Provided you are honest and constructive there's no reason you can't improve (even when you win)

One more small favour, if anyone wants to come on, quote me and just say bollocks/bull shit/rubbish please tell me what parts and debate it instead of the super fan attitude as these aren't fickle/knee-jerk reactions. Take a look in the match day thread and see the frustration in real time. Every comment is totally justified and a last minute winner doesn't change the issues we need to iron out.

 

"Develop a decent plan B at times"

^

Totally brainless. What does it even mean? Just a cringey phrase that supporters are copying from pundits in an effort to sound knowledgeable. It didn't even exist in football terms 5 years ago. 

 

Do you think teams say to each other at a given point in the match, "right lads the style of football that suits our personel, our physical attributes, that we train to implement every single day hasn't worked yet and we're on 65 mins, let's get Crouchy on and we'l start lobbing it in the box"?

[.Williamson. 82,144]

We're weak. 

We don't go out to kill teams off. We need to go out to take teams apart and kill them off. Like a big fucking wanker of a machine we need to dismantle everybody.

[.Williamson. 82,144]

I'm pished

[gsa 3,906]

Just now, .Williamson. said:

We're weak. 

We don't go out to kill teams off. We need to go out to take teams apart and kill them off. Like a big fucking wanker of a machine we need to dismantle everybody.

Agree. We lack bit of edge/nastiness/ruthlessness or whatever you want to call it, in either box. 

[Big Al 55 9,248]

1 hour ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Really don't buy into this media driven myth about a 'step up'

We smashed Dundee last season, beat Kilmarnock and the scum. There is not a huge gap between both leagues, as evident by half the teams in the league cup QFs being outwith the top division.

We've played Hamilton, Dundee and Motherwell. Those are hardly superior or a step up to Hivs, Falkirk, Raith, Morton etc.

@SwallowsHisOwnSpunk - Players are bound to have dips in form, but we shouldn't have a few players per game playing poorly in the first three matches of the season.

A different level of consistency and concentration is required, mistakes and lapses we may have got away with last season will be punished more often.  Its not about the one off games.

[gmcf 34,138]

Not enough people in the box is the biggest issue for me . 

A lot of our play is geared to get someone to the byline and cut the ball back but all too often there's only one person there , heavily outnumbered by the defense .

Have we got too many wingers in the team at the cost of putting bodies in the box ? I don't know , to me , we have too many players hanging around the edges of it , and not enough in it . 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

16 minutes ago, gmcf said:

Not enough people in the box is the biggest issue for me . 

A lot of our play is geared to get someone to the byline and cut the ball back but all too often there's only one person there , heavily outnumbered by the defense .

Have we got too many wingers in the team at the cost of putting bodies in the box ? I don't know , to me , we have too many players hanging around the edges of it , and not enough in it . 

No the problem is lack of positional discipline. 

First half Miller was anywhere bar the CF position. Right mid. Check. Left back. Check.

The only contribution from the 9 role was a God awful miss from clear through.

Second half Dodoo held central, and Miller and MOH stayed wide either side. 

Millers goal came because he was at the back post where he should be if the ball breaks across from the other side. Good positioning, great finish.

Miller or whoever needs to stay central if that's their positioning and the wingers need to come in at the back post for balls coming from the other side.

Many problems to resolve but up front that should be the basics whatever the personnel.

[ScotBear 144]

I feel this summer Warburton has been buying players because he feels they are the best available, in terms of individual ability, but not necessarily the right players for the system he wants to play.

Clint Hill is/was a good defender. But he's not a player you want exposed if you play a high line, high pressing, full backs bombing forward, type of game.

Joey Barton and Nico Kranjcar are two very talented midfield players......but due to age and pace they are not suited to a high tempo, high pressing game off the ball. Think how we played in the Old Firm win, we harassed Celtic in midfield off the ball but those two couldn't do that. Yet they both started our first game of the season because they are our two most 'talented' midfield players but not best suited. I think he's learnt from the first game and I think we'll rarely see both in the same side, certainly not both as part of a midfield 3.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 hour ago, gsa said:

"Develop a decent plan B at times"

^

Totally brainless. What does it even mean? Just a cringey phrase that supporters are copying from pundits in an effort to sound knowledgeable. It didn't even exist in football terms 5 years ago. 

 

Do you think teams say to each other at a given point in the match, "right lads the style of football that suits our personel, our physical attributes, that we train to implement every single day hasn't worked yet and we're on 65 mins, let's get Crouchy on and we'l start lobbing it in the box"?

You should get your facts right because it's a Warburton coined catchphrase himself he says his plan b is to do plan a better 

[JRodgA2k8 542]

It's the blind leading the blind if you think Rossiter played well yesterday, he was rotten, as was Haliday (again).

Barton responded in the 2nd half and played better than both aforementioned players.

Kranjcar was a miss yesterday until he came on, Haliday in no way should be playing in a more advanced role ahead of him.

The thing is we have another group of new players who are trying to gel but there is some amount of loyalty being shown to players who just haven't performed either.

Wallace doesn't get a mention when defensively he's been all over the shop this season, I genuinely think he's stopped possibly 1 ball coming into the box. 

McKay has appeared to be well off form also and our front three ironically looked more dangerous when he was hooked and Miller, Dodoo and Forester were on.

Forester however is not a winger and should be playing behind the front three.

There seems to be a general hard on for MOH right now also but again yesterday he was poor when he came on.  

He doesn't seem to get into space readily enough for the pass and when we does he makes the wrong decision s.  At 2-1 yesterday he only had to roll the ball across to Miller, and yes he did look up and see him, and it was game over...what did he do? Decided to be selfish and attempt to score himself, poor effort.  Motherwell then went up the park and hit a shot that was inches over the bar.

There's definitely some players who need a kick up the arse in our team right now but also some who I would question whether they can handle the pressure or not against tougher opposition this season

 

[gsa 3,906]

15 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

You should get your facts right because it's a Warburton coined catchphrase himself he says his plan b is to do plan a better 

That proves my point rather than yours then, doesn't it?

[simplythebest 11,453]

1 hour ago, Big Al II said:

A different level of consistency and concentration is required, mistakes and lapses we may have got away with last season will be punished more often.  Its not about the one off games.

There's a step up in the sense of dealing with the pressure of going for the top league title in the same league as our biggest rivals, we were the overwhelming favourites in the lower leagues even though we fucked it up completely the year Hearts were in the Championship.

We shouldn't be setting our expectations too low either though, it'll be a challenge (still not an impossible one) to finish above the scum since they seem to have managed to get a better manager and make some good signings but as a minimum we should be a comfortable second, our squad in terms of wages and quality is way above all the other teams in this league. Even Aberdeen and Hearts who were the closest to them last season would any of their squads bar one or two really add anything to ours?

[simplythebest 11,453]

2 hours ago, gsa said:

"Develop a decent plan B at times"

^

Totally brainless. What does it even mean? Just a cringey phrase that supporters are copying from pundits in an effort to sound knowledgeable. It didn't even exist in football terms 5 years ago. 

 

Do you think teams say to each other at a given point in the match, "right lads the style of football that suits our personel, our physical attributes, that we train to implement every single day hasn't worked yet and we're on 65 mins, let's get Crouchy on and we'l start lobbing it in the box"?

Even if you don't like the phrase can you not get the point?  Last season we started away hammering teams every week, then when they started altering their own tactics it became more of a struggle in several games, we were still dominating the matches by and large but it was taking us a frustratingly long time to make a break through and kill teams off. That's where the idea of a Plan B has to come in.