Whatever happened to the "TBB Liaison Committee"?

[Big V 271]

I was doing some clearing out the other day and I found the paperwork about that committee I set up. It occurred to me that I cannot remember whether or not I ever updated the forum on what happened with the committee we founded to try and sort out the TBB problem.

Well everything was going smoothly, the nominations had happened, the votes were cast, the team was assembled and we were in discussion via telephone meetings.  Everything looked good, we were assigned a representative on the FoCUS police unit who was very supportive of our efforts and very helpful. We even had a meeting at Motherwell Police Station on 19/4/2013 attended physically by two or three of the committee and myself via telephone conference call.

The officers present felt that our aims were reasonable and achievable, and that it was only a matter of addressing it correctly.

So we waited patiently for the follow-up from the officer who had agreed to seek further advice (from the procurator fiscal) on how best to go about it and what we needed to change, etc.

Later the following week I received a phone call explaining that we had no chance at all of making any progress whatsoever, and that the song in question "TBB" would remain banned in any form, irrespective of lyrical changes the song would remain banned.

Shortly afterwards I received a rather formal letter from FoCUS basically telling me we were wasting our time and that there was no way at all we would be able to have this song in any form, end of story.

That's as far as we got, the committee agreed that there wasn't much point in us continuing to exist, so we disbanded.

As I said I cannot remember whether or not I have already informed everyone about this, apologies if I am repeating myself, and if not I apologise for being three years late.

~Vini

[K.A.I 36,183]

That's the SNP and Police Scotland in all their glory right there.

A tune is banned, regardless of words.

Kilmarnock, Hearts and Dundee can sing their own version, with the own words with the exact same tune and they're OK.

More anti-Rangers/Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist descrimination from the very top in this cesspit of a country. Not even surprised.

[Drumloyal 14,924]

So the tune remains banned but it's only banned for us then?

Why is "gorgie boys" not banned then?  Good old impartial focus.

[Bad Robot 21,139]

Surely it's up to the courts to determine and define the law with the police only applying the law?

[Bad Robot 21,139]

Can you publish the focus letter?

[Big V 271]

Quote

Can you publish the focus letter?

 

I can't find it, I think i threw it out when i moved house last year, I could request it to be re-sent though which might happen - I'll send them an email now.

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

Surely it's up to the courts to determine and define the law with the police only applying the law?

Agreed. If the word fenian was replaced with rebel or peado or something ... good luck getting a conviction in court under religious sectarianism.

I suppose this ridiculous law is structured towards offensive and anyone can technically be offended by anything. That's why it's an absolute joke.

[RangersMedia 35,961]

How can you ban a tune?   

[Fred H Crawford 1,182]

Scotland's sinn fein government and police force summed up .

How the fuck can a TUNE be banned irrespective of the words but only for one set of fans . Totally bizarre but not unexpected .

[One Jock Wallace 858]

Absolute nonsense. I contacted a senior officer from Focus who stated they were not aware of any list of banned songs. It's a total myth to stop us singing another version imo. I put the question to the officer that if I was to change the words from fenian blood to an alternative, could one be prosecuted. I would have to dig out my mails for her reply but it was obvious you would not be brought to the courts if the words were non sectarian, regardless of the tune. 

[Big V 271]

I have asked for another copy of the letter, I know that initially we were told that any reference to the billy boys was banned, as well as the more obvious stuff.

Sorry a lot has happened in my life since 2013 - if I get another copy send I'll post it here. Failing that one of the other committee members could jump in as I am pretty sure we were all informed.

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, One Jock Wallace said:

Absolute nonsense. I contacted a senior officer from Focus who stated they were not aware of any list of banned songs. It's a total myth to stop us singing another version imo. I put the question to the officer that if I was to change the words from fenian blood to an alternative, could one be prosecuted. I would have to dig out my mails for her reply but it was obvious you would not be brought to the courts if the words were non sectarian, regardless of the tune. 

It will depend what officer is on duty that day I'd imagine - which is part of the problem with subjective and cloudy laws and rulings. One person finds something fine and another takes issue with it. It's a mess.

[Bad Robot 21,139]

10 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Agreed. If the word fenian was replaced with rebel or peado or something ... good luck getting a conviction in court under religious sectarianism.

I suppose this ridiculous law is structured towards offensive and anyone can technically be offended by anything. That's why it's an absolute joke.

I think we would need to change the 'blood' part also due to all this pc bullshit as the English FA apologised when the fan chants were derogatory to the IRA who we already know are child murdering scum

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, Bad Robot said:

I think we would need to change the 'blood' part also due to all this pc bullshit as the English FA apologised when the fan chants were derogatory to the IRA who we already know are child murdering scum

Then Dundee, Hearts and Kilmarnock would need to do that too.

By defination you can't really be pro something without being anti something else. This is where you would hope common sense would prevail at some point.

[Big V 271]

8 minutes ago, One Jock Wallace said:

Absolute nonsense. I contacted a senior officer from Focus who stated they were not aware of any list of banned songs. It's a total myth to stop us singing another version imo. I put the question to the officer that if I was to change the words from fenian blood to an alternative, could one be prosecuted. I would have to dig out my mails for her reply but it was obvious you would not be brought to the courts if the words were non sectarian, regardless of the tune. 

Firstly, don't call me a liar, especially when I was not the only witness to this, and there is documentary evidence.

Secondly were the officer's initials EM or MM? As those were the two officers in question.

Note that what you said you were told by FoCUS is the same thing we were told by FoCUS initially, right up until the issue was escalated - it was at that point that the whole thing got swiftly squashed.

[One Jock Wallace 858]

Perhaps they are objecting to the Billy boys as a reference to a so called sectarian gang. However I personally associate the words to King Billy rather than Billy Fullerton. And even If we were singing about the later, it's not as if his gang was a proscribed terrorist organisation ffs. 

[Bad Robot 21,139]

13 minutes ago, Big V said:

Firstly, don't call me a liar, especially when I was not the only witness to this, and there is documentary evidence.

Secondly were the officer's initials EM or MM? As those were the two officers in question.

Note that what you said you were told by FoCUS is the same thing we were told by FoCUS initially, right up until the issue was escalated - it was at that point that the whole thing got swiftly squashed.

I never read the 'absolute nonsense' as being directed at you but being directed at the whole farcical situation but your involvement is well appreciated.

[Bad Robot 21,139]

8 minutes ago, One Jock Wallace said:

Perhaps they are objecting to the Billy boys as a reference to a so called sectarian gang. However I personally associate the words to King Billy rather than Billy Fullerton. And even If we were singing about the later, it's not as if his gang was a proscribed terrorist organisation ffs. 

We also have the play so it's now just a generic term for a Rangers fan similar to being a Bear so I think that part wouldn't hold up for the mock offended.

http://www.paviliontheatre.co.uk/shows/singin-im-no-a-billy-hes-a-tim-3/

[eejay the dj 31,964]

41 minutes ago, Drumloyal said:

So the tune remains banned but it's only banned for us then?

Why is "gorgie boys" not banned then?  Good old impartial focus.

jobsworth scumbags

[Captain Hilts 12,819]

If challenged on it they'd probably say that people would still sing the version with the F word even if the lyrics were changed and the song was unbanned.  But how can they be sure that Killie and Hearts fans aren't singing the F word?  It's hypocritical and unfair that it's only Rangers fans that are banned from using the 'tune' and no one else is.

[One Jock Wallace 858]

16 minutes ago, Big V said:

Firstly, don't call me a liar, especially when I was not the only witness to this, and there is documentary evidence.

Secondly were the officer's initials EM or MM? As those were the two officers in question.

Note that what you said you were told by FoCUS is the same thing we were told by FoCUS initially, right up until the issue was escalated - it was at that point that the whole thing got swiftly squashed.

Wasn't calling you a liar mate, quite the opposite. I admire Bears for being proactive and getting our song back rather than moaning about it & doing fuck all. Was referring to the whole situation were the law is so poor that Focus or the Crown office don't know or won't provide guidance.

I think it was MM and I'm happy to share our dialogue via pm. Something I never wanted to do but I took my question all the way to the Crown office and the reply I received was pathetic. So fuck them.

Ultimately I think it's a case of us agreeing the words and fighting any challenge in the courts with good representation and sound defence. They can't and haven't banned a tune regardless what some say. 

[Big V 271]

5 minutes ago, One Jock Wallace said:

Wasn't calling you a liar mate, quite the opposite. I admire Bears for being proactive and getting our song back rather than moaning about it & doing fuck all. Was referring to the whole situation were the law is so poor that Focus or the Crown office don't know or won't provide guidance.

I think it was MM and I'm happy to share our dialogue via pm. Something I never wanted to do but I took my question all the way to the Crown office and the reply I received was pathetic. So fuck them.

Ultimately I think it's a case of us agreeing the words and fighting any challenge in the courts with good representation and sound defence. They can't and haven't banned a tune regardless what some say. 

Oh fair enough, sorry for misunderstanding.  In that case I agree with you that it is absolute bollocks.

It really seems like one rule for us and one rule for everyone else.

[five stars 1,635]

As mentioned in another post it's not up to Focus to decide what we can and can't sing.

They possibly didn't want to be seen as approving of bring back the song in any form.

Getting a good human rights lawyer to communicate with them and ask them to explain why.

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

My memory could be wrong.  Don't recall the tune ever being illegal or deemed illegal, what I recall is the club under Sir Cunty saying the song was banned in all forms  at IBROX which folks took to mean the tune was effectively banned.  Trying to make a tune illegal would be a legalistic nightmare, don't think even the snp would take that on.

 

[Bad Robot 21,139]

2 hours ago, K.A.I said:

Then Dundee, Hearts and Kilmarnock would need to do that too.

By defination you can't really be pro something without being anti something else. This is where you would hope common sense would prevail at some point.

It's the same old story where the cunts only apply the law to us which is really poor and prejudiced policing, and the same applies to the mhedia coverage