908 14 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 The performances so far have been unacceptable and we are lucky to have 8 points, despite not playing any top 6 teams so far. I can accept King not spending any money or getting us into debt, however what really bothers me is that pre-season it was all this "Going for 55" pish. Then once all the season tickets are bought suddenly he announces "well it's really all about finishing second" that is certainly what we are budgeting for, or at least Europa league qualification, but that looks doubtful. However I suppose they maybe expected to be coining it in from a merchandise deal by now, but Ashley & his cohorts put paid to that. This club must be challenging for league titles though. For one thing, the only way we can make money/compete with celtic is by getting into the Champions League. You get fvck all money even if you get into the group stage of the Europa league, so what worries me isn't just this season, but next season as well - where is this money coming from? Qualifying for the Europa league would probably make it actually harder for us to win the SPFL. We need money up-front. Then it can be recouped later. The OP is quite right, and it should be pointed out that Leicester did actually spend quite a bit compared to their usual budget, and boy are they going to coin it back in now. Of course due to new UEFA rules we probably need a wee Europa run or else we would be unseeded in every round of the Champions league qualifiers if indeed we did ever win the SPFL, however the fans ain't gonna keep buying into this austerity policy. And let's face it its not as if celtic are spending that much, or are/were that far ahead of us. Warburton is not blameless however. It is a massive weakness for a manager to not be able to change his tactics, although I do think the whole "no Plan B" thing is psychology more than anything else. If you want to win trophies, you need to tweak your tactics for certain games. It's the sign of a good manager. That being said, he never changed his tactics in the Scottish Cup semi but we still beat them, and they haven't really signed any world beaters since then. Its just that some of the celtic players who were crap before are now playing well for big Brenda. But they will go back to being crap. Remember Bobby Petta..? Warburton is no Walter Smith though. For starters, don't let your players brag in the media about challenging celtic, especially when they are getting on a bit like Barton & Miller. Do your talking on the pitch. Yes, privately tell the players they can win the title, but publicly it should all have been about lowering expectations, and maybe taking teams by surprise. For me, the biggest issue though is that we aren't getting value for money because we insist on buying English third division players and has-beens. You can't win the SPFL with that level of player. And if you are going to play attacking football, you need much better players than the opposition. We had that against most Championship teams last year, but it is harder this year and our players don't currently look like they are quite good enough. The likes of Sviatchenko and van Dyke didn't cost celtic tens of millions. Going back a bit we had Bougherra, Kyrgiakos, even Marvin fuckin Andrews.. we need international standard players, and we can well afford them, but not in the English marketplace! Yet we should still be beating teams like Kilmarnock. And I reckon we would have done if we played 4-4-2. Bring back Halliday and Holt. Rossiter is too young, Krancjar is too old and Barton is too slow. The celtic game must be Joey Barton's last chance. Play Tavernier at RM, Hodson at RB. Harry Forrester is a winger, not a central midfielder. But if we lose on Sep 10, they might as well hand celtic the trophy there and then. Sure as hell ain't going to be any title challenge from Hearts and Aberdeen either.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtyard Bear 41,357 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 The board were getting all the praise when things were going along nicely, so they have to take the flak when things are not going nicely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Avenger 22,567 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, 908 said: The performances so far have been unacceptable and we are lucky to have 8 points, despite not playing any top 6 teams so far. I can accept King not spending any money or getting us into debt, however what really bothers me is that pre-season it was all this "Going for 55" pish. Then once all the season tickets are bought suddenly he announces "well it's really all about finishing second" that is certainly what we are budgeting for, or at least Europa league qualification, but that looks doubtful. However I suppose they maybe expected to be coining it in from a merchandise deal by now, but Ashley & his cohorts put paid to that. This club must be challenging for league titles though. For one thing, the only way we can make money/compete with celtic is by getting into the Champions League. You get fvck all money even if you get into the group stage of the Europa league, so what worries me isn't just this season, but next season as well - where is this money coming from? Qualifying for the Europa league would probably make it actually harder for us to win the SPFL. We need money up-front. Then it can be recouped later. The OP is quite right, and it should be pointed out that Leicester did actually spend quite a bit compared to their usual budget, and boy are they going to coin it back in now. Of course due to new UEFA rules we probably need a wee Europa run or else we would be unseeded in every round of the Champions league qualifiers if indeed we did ever win the SPFL, however the fans ain't gonna keep buying into this austerity policy. And let's face it its not as if celtic are spending that much, or are/were that far ahead of us. Warburton is not blameless however. It is a massive weakness for a manager to not be able to change his tactics, although I do think the whole "no Plan B" thing is psychology more than anything else. If you want to win trophies, you need to tweak your tactics for certain games. It's the sign of a good manager. That being said, he never changed his tactics in the Scottish Cup semi but we still beat them, and they haven't really signed any world beaters since then. Its just that some of the celtic players who were crap before are now playing well for big Brenda. But they will go back to being crap. Remember Bobby Petta..? Warburton is no Walter Smith though. For starters, don't let your players brag in the media about challenging celtic, especially when they are getting on a bit like Barton & Miller. Do your talking on the pitch. Yes, privately tell the players they can win the title, but publicly it should all have been about lowering expectations, and maybe taking teams by surprise. For me, the biggest issue though is that we aren't getting value for money because we insist on buying English third division players and has-beens. You can't win the SPFL with that level of player. And if you are going to play attacking football, you need much better players than the opposition. We had that against most Championship teams last year, but it is harder this year and our players don't currently look like they are quite good enough. The likes of Sviatchenko and van Dyke didn't cost celtic tens of millions. Going back a bit we had Bougherra, Kyrgiakos, even Marvin fuckin Andrews.. we need international standard players, and we can well afford them, but not in the English marketplace! Yet we should still be beating teams like Kilmarnock. And I reckon we would have done if we played 4-4-2. Bring back Halliday and Holt. Rossiter is too young, Krancjar is too old and Barton is too slow. The celtic game must be Joey Barton's last chance. Play Tavernier at RM, Hodson at RB. Harry Forrester is a winger, not a central midfielder. But if we lose on Sep 10, they might as well hand celtic the trophy there and then. Sure as hell ain't going to be any title challenge from Hearts and Aberdeen either.. We are only in austerity because of who our new controllers are. Rich by ordinary man standards, but not rich enough to put a team on the park to challenge the scum and that gap just got widened by £30mil! This austerity WILL continue until someone fronts up with enough cash for them to fuck off. We lose against them on Sep. 10, then yes it will be as good as handing them the title, but let's hope we all get a pleasant surprise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Blue Avenger said: We are only in austerity because of who our new controllers are. Rich by ordinary man standards, but not rich enough to put a team on the park to challenge the scum and that gap just got widened by £30mil! This austerity WILL continue until someone fronts up with enough cash for them to fuck off. We lose against them on Sep. 10, then yes it will be as good as handing them the title, but let's hope we all get a pleasant surprise. Their tails are up, as they were prior to the semi-final - but from my experience when Rangers are the underdogs, it always reminds me of helicopter sunday. FTP & all who rides him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFM 3,809 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Blue Avenger said: We are only in austerity because of who our new controllers are. Rich by ordinary man standards, but not rich enough to put a team on the park to challenge the scum and that gap just got widened by £30mil!This austerity WILL continue until someone fronts up with enough cash for them to fuck off. We lose against them on Sep. 10, then yes it will be as good as handing them the title, but let's hope we all get a pleasant surprise. Spot on with this Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKirk 25,461 Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 our plan Imo is European football and trying to qualify for that next year so we will need major investment to make Europa league group stages. If King isn't in a position to fund it I suggest he sells up. If the board before this board behaved in this manner they'd have been outcry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, KingKirk said: our plan Imo is European football and trying to qualify for that next year so we will need major investment to make Europa league group stages. If King isn't in a position to fund it I suggest he sells up. If the board before this board behaved in this manner they'd have been outcry. What he and Letham et al want is a new share issue to raise serious funds but of course Billy Bunter from sports direct blocked that that is number one priority for us right now. I really believe we have the right people in charge at all levels but the quality of the squad has to be significantly increased imho in short MW needs the same tools as Brenda Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gersandy 594 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 14 hours ago, simplythebest said: No but King set himself up for questions by going on about how we had to spend 20-30 million on transfers when he was trying to buy in So you'd be okay with us getting into 2012s mess again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 minute ago, gersandy said: So you'd be okay with us getting into 2012s mess again? Not at all, I just don't believe King should have said that when it clearly wasn't possible Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,592 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, gersandy said: So you'd be okay with us getting into 2012s mess again? We are in that mess anyway as King and co have took on more loans rather than invested money promised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFM 3,809 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Hopefully once the retail shambles is over the current board leave. Imo the should already be marketing the club to potential owners if they have an idea of how long it will take to fix the retail deal. Would love some rich as fuck tycoon to take us over like Man City but there's pipe dreams and then there that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piperpete 3,186 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Courtyard Bear said: The board were getting all the praise when things were going along nicely, so they have to take the flak when things are not going nicely. When things Do go wrong they do deserve to given flak , Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffbear 4,095 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 In my opinion we've brought in good players .We've been unlucky crooks windass waggy and Holt have been injured ..my fear is Warbs is being too cautious and should let us express ourselves like last season..free flowing exciting football Either Barton or Rossiter not both ....play a 4.2.3.1 with Waggy or moh behind Garner... Well come good and hopefully the break will give us time to regroup and work on a plan B ..plus the beggars are on a roll so hopefully this will break their momentum plus a few injuries. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.A.I 36,183 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 23 minutes ago, gersandy said: So you'd be okay with us getting into 2012s mess again? Why's this crap rolled out anytime someone mentions lack of investment. You need to remember the 2012 mess - it all started because we were 18 million in debt. That debt was getting serviced and repaid, we were even turning profits in the accounts. Spending isn't a bad thing. It's essential. We need to spend wisely, though. There's a difference. Our levels of investment are nowhere near enough to compete. I said it before we signed these players and I'm saying it again now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gersandy 594 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 30 minutes ago, simplythebest said: Not at all, I just don't believe King should have said that when it clearly wasn't possible I think your pretty gullable if you believed that. The clubs losing money hand over fist. Kings managed to stem that a little, but were still a few years off turning a profit. Once were in a good position, we can then demand the big transfers. I believe were one or 2 signings away from having a really good team (challenging the tims). Weather or not we'll be in a position to sign these players this season is the question. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, gersandy said: I think your pretty gullable if you believed that. The clubs losing money hand over fist. Kings managed to stem that a little, but were still a few years off turning a profit. Once were in a good position, we can then demand the big transfers. I believe were one or 2 signings away from having a really good team (challenging the tims). Weather or not we'll be in a position to sign these players this season is the question. I never believed it I'm saying he shouldn't have said it, Charles Green got pelters all the time for similar hyperbole, and no I'm not saying that makes them the same just in case you're thinking that We need to find the balance between sensible management and needed investment, I don't know if the board are managing that right now Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBear. 8,499 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 On 8/27/2016 at 3:59 PM, King Jela said: On you go and make his day, it's the only reason he posts on here If I was that interested in getting like's on here I'd just spend my time calling BP9 a cunt. Hunners of easy likes available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Avenger 22,567 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 minute ago, gersandy said: I think your pretty gullable if you believed that. The clubs losing money hand over fist. Kings managed to stem that a little, but were still a few years off turning a profit. Once were in a good position, we can then demand the big transfers. I believe were one or 2 signings away from having a really good team (challenging the tims). Weather or not we'll be in a position to sign these players this season is the question. There is little money in the game up here, with very limited cash revenue streams. Significant ST sales and qualification to the CL group stage is the only chance we have of being profitable and sustain a challenge to THEM, as the scum are much more liquid and of course receive their £30 mil cash windfall for qualifying. To get where they are, we need to invest more than we are currently, as they have opened up quite a gap and despite what the detractors day, have indeed stepped up a notch in the manager stakes. They will further invest to prevent us knocking them off their perch. I'm not saying we throw tens of millions to reduce the gap, but significantly more than we currently are. Success attracts investors and sponsors and commands a premium but to secure that, we will need fund it front end, otherwise we will remain in their shadow for the foreseeable future. Difficult to admit, but they have indeed stepped up a class and are amongst the big boys. They may not even secure one point, but their exposure at that level will do them no harm, as no one on the planet will expect them to do anything, being from a shit league in a small country, so they have nothing to lose. It is for the current stewards of our great club, to be transparent in how they plan to overhaul them and that is all down to money and investment and it's now time they came clean and are held to account. Sure we can give them this season as the period of grace, but any suggestion we should wait and see how this season ends is deluding themselves, as there is a gulf between us and them and we are not flush with cash, so planning and the hard questions are needing asked and answered now, or we will just lose another season, full of false hope and expectations, whilst THEY secure anothe £30 mil and leave us in their wake. That's the prospect. Like it or lump it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital Blu 615 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 43 minutes ago, K.A.I said: Why's this crap rolled out anytime someone mentions lack of investment. You need to remember the 2012 mess - it all started because we were 18 million in debt. That debt was getting serviced and repaid, we were even turning profits in the accounts. Spending isn't a bad thing. It's essential. We need to spend wisely, though. There's a difference. Our levels of investment are nowhere near enough to compete. I said it before we signed these players and I'm saying it again now. There are five main sources of revenue: Match day income - that's just about max'd with ST sales and prices. Merchandising - tied to the SD deal, with a stand-off between the club and suppliers preventing the club earning maybe £3M-£4M a year Sponsorship and advertising - could do better with shirt and other advertising deals but not massively so Broadcasting - extra cash form coverage of cup ties (league games are included in the merit/commercial income) - little scope for increase. Commercial - Mainly from league position (a top 3 finish will net £2M+ against £400K last season), UEFA competitions, cup runs and transfers If the the current player budget is set with realistic expectations of income, then I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the signings since January. I agree that more investment is required, but I don't think that the 2nd or 3rd tier market in England is good value for money. We need to look to Europe for better quality. The alternative is further "investment" from fans (limited scope), more "soft" loans (limited scope) or a wealthy benefactor (new owners?). There is an oft quoted statement about how to make a small fortune out of football ............... invest a large fortune! I can't currently see where significant investment is going to come from in the short term, but can only live in hope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gersandy 594 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 52 minutes ago, simplythebest said: I never believed it I'm saying he shouldn't have said it, Charles Green got pelters all the time for similar hyperbole, and no I'm not saying that makes them the same just in case you're thinking that We need to find the balance between sensible management and needed investment, I don't know if the board are managing that right now So is there a quote somewhere of him saying "were going to spend x million". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Avenger 22,567 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 hour ago, In Dungeons Deep said: Hopefully once the retail shambles is over the current board leave. Imo the should already be marketing the club to potential owners if they have an idea of how long it will take to fix the retail deal. Would love some rich as fuck tycoon to take us over like Man City but there's pipe dreams and then there that. If they are true Ranger's men, then they should be, as they do not have the financial muscle required to take this club where it both deserves and demands to be. Sad to say the scum are now the benchmarch and they have just added another £30 mil to their cause and we just cannot compete nor match that and neither should we. However significant investment is indeed needed and it's well obvious that we are falling well short. The game up here is not a big generator of cash, we are not flush with cash, we have few income streams and our leaders are just not wealthy enough to make much inroads to narrowing that gap. So it's stand aside time and let someone, if there is indeed one out there, with the required financial muscle to take us forward and this board should be doing this NOW, or it will be another lost season of false hope and false dawn and watch the scum further increase the gap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone 7,678 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 9 hours ago, calio said: Couldn't possibly comment on that wee Al, at least until I find out what your Lundy mate Young Will has to say about it first. Seeing as you have been his chief bugle blower maybe you could post up his blog? Bet you'll have missed blowing his quilled tip *sad face* What Rangers hater is he interviewing for his tarrier readership this week? I've heard a rumour it's a cardinal O'Brian & philth mcgillivan double act! You'll love that Alphonse. Most on here will know fine well that I backed Dave King & the 3 bears to take control back from the last incumbents, you trying to use that as an insult says more about you than it does me. We both know that you'd be far happier with the last lot still raping the arse off our Club if it meant King and co hadn't wrestled control back. I'd imagine that's why many of us see you post your usual nonsense & simply think 'turd' Do you know Al Capone was tested before his death and found to have the mental ability of a 12 yr old! I always wondered why you chose the name of a fat Fenian, tax dodging cunt for your user name ? ???? you're trying to hard Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 23 minutes ago, gersandy said: So is there a quote somewhere of him saying "were going to spend x million". Yes Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carsons Dog 9,878 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Smile said: We are in that mess anyway as King and co have took on more loans rather than invested money promised. Loans are good now though Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 20,016 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 hour ago, AlBear85 said: If I was that interested in getting like's on here I'd just spend my time calling BP9 a cunt. Hunners of easy likes available. Imagine taking that bait. That fire inside you seems to getting stronger Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.