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Over to the board now regarding the Cup Final.


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6 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

There has been investigations in to those attacks on Rangers players.  In fact, I'm pretty sure the Police has arrested a number of them.  When Lennon was attacked the Police arrested the guy who done it and, quite rightly, did not punish Hearts for his actions of that individual fan.  Regan has had something to say, he condemned the actions of those fans who ran on the pitch and committed offences:

Chief executive Stewart Regan said the Scottish Football Association was "appalled by the scenes of disorder and the contemptible behaviour" after the Scottish Cup final and that a full investigation, carried out along with Police Scotland, would begin. 

Regan said: "The Scottish FA is appalled by the scenes of disorder on the field immediately after full-time and at the contemptible behaviour that ensued. What should have been an historic, memorable Scottish Cup final will now, sadly, be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

Police Scotland and the stadium management initiated a Crisis Liaison Group as soon as the disorder began and we thank them for containing the situation as quickly as possible.

Investigating criminal acts is a matter for the Police, not football clubs.  There's nothing more either club could've done to prevent fans from running on to the pitch.

Where in the things you posted does it say an investigation has been started into the attacks on Rangers players ? Yes it's a criminal matter,But so too was the Lennon incident... But they launched an investigation the same night.. How long did it take the two of them to comment about the Scottish cup final ?

The stuff they said covers what happened after the final whistle,No where does it mention anything about players being attacked,Contrast and compare to what they had to say in great detail over what happened to Lennon and that also was a criminal matter.

I think we all know why both of them said what they did regards Lennon..

It was broadcast for days and ran in the papers for weeks and the celtc pr machine in the media went into overdrive.. There has been a huge difference with the coverage of Rangers players who were attacked and instead of focusing on that very thing they paid more attention to the Rangers fans songs and fans on the pitch.

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32 minutes ago, Rangersfansmediawatch said:

Double standards that's what our board should be asking of the SFA.

The board should be raising the question as to why there has been no investigation into the attacks on Rangers players.

Both the SFA and the SPL through Doncaster and Regan had plenty to say when Lennon was jumped on at Tynecastle,More importantly it was an SPL game but didn't stop the SFA becoming involved.

The Scottish cup final falls under the SFA and yet Doncaster from the SPFL had absolutely nothing to say in regards to Rangers players being attacked on the pitch and neither did Regan... But both had started an investigation on the very night of the Lennon incident.

The board can easily ask why was there no investigation and point to the Lennon incident.

 



 

 

The board said they were going to act but were willing to wait to see how this was handled, they now have to act as this is just a whitewash.

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1 minute ago, Smile said:

You are talking some shite were you at the game and did you witness what went on ? You seem happy Rangers supporters got done as well.

The scenes afterwards were an embarrassment.  However, what happened is the fault of the fans who took it upon themselves to enter the pitch and the Police who couldn't deal with it.  I think it would be wrong to blame the clubs for things that are beyond their control. 

I'm not happy Rangers fans entered the pitch but it's something we need to remember.  The SFA were pursuing both Rangers and Hibs for damages.  In fact, it was the Hibs lawyer who destroyed the SFAs position and as a result charges against both clubs were thrown out. 

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2 minutes ago, Rangersfansmediawatch said:

Where in the things you posted does it say an investigation has been started into the attacks on Rangers players ? Yes it's a criminal matter,But so too was the Lennon incident... But they launched an investigation the same night.. How long did it take the two of them to comment about the Scottish cup final ?

The stuff they said covers what happened after the final whistle,No where does it mention anything about players being attacked,Contrast and compare to what they had to say in great detail over what happened to Lennon and that also was a criminal matter.

I think we all know why both of them said what they did regards Lennon..

It was broadcast for days and ran in the papers for weeks and the celtc pr machine in the media went into overdrive.. There has been a huge difference with the coverage of Rangers players who were attacked and instead of focusing on that very thing they paid more attention to the Rangers fans songs and fans on the pitch.

With all due respect, the Lennon thing was 5 years ago and I can hardly remember it as this point.  I can't be bothered going back to read about it.  The topic of this conversation is the Scottish Cup final and I'm happy to talk about that.

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4 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

The scenes afterwards were an embarrassment.  However, what happened is the fault of the fans who took it upon themselves to enter the pitch and the Police who couldn't deal with it.  I think it would be wrong to blame the clubs for things that are beyond their control. 

I'm not happy Rangers fans entered the pitch but it's something we need to remember.  The SFA were pursuing both Rangers and Hibs for damages.  In fact, it was the Hibs lawyer who destroyed the SFAs position and as a result charges against both clubs were thrown out. 

 
 

No Rangers fans left their seats till Hibs charged over, so i can't see the point you make at all. I've been going to the football forty odd years and I've never witnessed behaviour like that at any Match.

No punishment just makes it open season on us, no backing from the Board makes them just as culpable.

 

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2 minutes ago, Smile said:

The board said they were going to act but were willing to wait to see how this was handled, they now have to act as this is just a whitewash.

They made a rod for their own back releasing two statements more or less about the same thing.

They won't act after what happened today,Had it not been thrown out the club could have faced a substantial fine or bill.

The strict liability rule is why this has been thrown out and this is why they think it's the answer to all their problems by getting clubs to agree to it,Had the strict liability been agreed it would have been a different matter.

Another interesting thing is this... If Hibs legal team has stated that you can't hold clubs responsible for their fans causing damage then in theory Rangers could simply refuse to pay for damage to the toilets at the san giro,But doing that would see the unwashed destroying ours and it's why there is a gentlemen's agreement betwen the clubs to pay for each others damage.

But then again,If clubs can't be held responsible for fans behavior then why did the SFA sanction Motherwell for their fans behavior.

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2 minutes ago, Smile said:

No Rangers fans left their seats till Hibs charged over, so i can't see the point you make at all. I've been going to the football forty odd years and I've never witnessed behaviour like that at any Match.

No punishment just makes it open season on us, no backing from the Board makes them just as culpable.

 

The SFAs position is quite clear.  Football clubs cannot be blamed for the action of their fans.  It doesn't matter who ran on first, both sets of fans ran on, and both clubs had fans charged with offences. 

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9 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

The SFAs position is quite clear.  Football clubs cannot be blamed for the action of their fans.  It doesn't matter who ran on first, both sets of fans ran on, and both clubs had fans charged with offences. 

 

Must be a new thing as when shitey sean chained himself to the goalposts years gone by we got done for it.  So does it just punish us then ?

It would have mattered if you had been there i guess.

 

If you're looking to apportion blame to any party for the disgusting scenes witnessed at Hampden at the end of Hibs' dramatic victory, look no further than the host's themselves.

Article 28.2 of the Scottish Football Association's Articles of Association states: "A recognised  football  body  which  is  directly  responsible  for  organising  a  match  under  its jurisdiction  shall  [likewise; in reference to Article 28.1]  take  all  such  steps  as  are  reasonably  practicable  to  ensure  the  safety, good  conduct  and  behaviour  of  spectators  at  such  match."

As suggested by Rangers, in a exceptional strongly worded statement on Sunday, the Scottish Football Association have failed to do everything as reasonably practicable to ensure the safety and behaviour of all spectators at Hampden during the Scottish Cup final.

Even though it was the supporters of Hibernian who instigated all of the illegal actions, ultimately blame and responsibility cannot lie with them, or their club. If you were to create a 'WHY' tree, often used within the game of Health and Safety to investigate unsafe acts and incidents, the SFA would be at top of the tree.

A minority of Rangers supporters entered the pitch and engaged in fighting with a minority of supporters of Hibernian. Why? Because they were being provoked and intimidated by those supporters of Hibernian, some of whom were attacking Rangers' players and staff.

A number of Rangers players and staff were assaulted and/or injured by supporters of Hibernian. Why? Because thousands of Hibernian supporters had been allowed to charge on to the pitch to celebrate, and quite a few thugs took that opportunity with both fists.

Thousands of Hibernian supporters were allowed to enter the pitch, resulting in damage to the pitch and the goals, on top of the aforementioned assaulting of Rangers' players and staff. Why? Because there was no one there to stop them.

The match security arrangements were not fit for purpose, enabling the initial charge by Hibernian supporters to take place. Why? Because the Scottish Football Association did not do all as reasonably practicable to ensure the safety and behaviour of all spectators.

As well as flaunting their very own Articles of Association, you would have to assume that there will be legal ramifications, and a potential liability claim from Rangers themselves, for the SFA to face. As host's of the Scottish Cup final at Hampden, I think I'm right in saying that the SFA owed a duty of care to all players, staff and officials? As well as to all those well-behaved, and terrified, supporters who remained in the stands (as far as I'm concerned all those who entered the pitch did so at their own risk and are owed nothing as a result). 

As Rangers also alluded to in their damning statement, the Scottish Football Association have seemingly battened down the hatches, possibly hoping to see out the storm. Presumably all Rangers supporters will be glad to see that Rangers have made it abundantly clear that they will not allow that to happen, even if much of the media continue to seek to change the narrative. After reading the morning papers, it seems that most want to drag all Rangers supporters down to the level of the few hundred violent thugs of Hibernian persuasion, which is unacceptable.

Rangers themselves, and many who were in attendance, have stated that the minority of Rangers supporters who did enter the pitch only did so following intense provocation and intimidation and to protect their own players. I wasn't at the match, so it's impossible to pass judgement on those who did enter the pitch, but the realist within me can't help but think that there weren't a few thuggish opportunists who just wanted a rammy, and happily took advantage of the police, match security and SFA's loss of control. It's important to make it clear here that I'm not suggesting that Rangers are in the wrong and that are supporters are to blame. It is a basic human nature to lash out when provoked, or intimidated. Any psychologist could tell you that.

Nor am I suggesting all Hibernian supporters entering the pitch did so to provoke, intimidate and assault. Scotland and Scottish football is littered with hate-fuelled, drunken thugs, and probably always will be. Football always seem to bring out the best and worst in our society and this dramatic and exciting Scottish Cup final was no different.

So what now?

Rangers have to ensure that any of our own supporters who went beyond absolutely necessary means of protecting themselves, their players and their staff, are identified and suitably punished for their illegal actions. If we want to regain our place at the top of Scottish football, we have to be exemplary and set the standard. Mindless violence is never acceptable, especially not at a football match.

Hibernian have to formally apologise to Rangers for the injuries and assaults sustained by their players and staff, as well as the genuine stress and concern experienced by all the Rangers supporters who feared for their safety. It's the very least they should do to try and ensure their famous Scottish Cup win is remembered for what it was within the 90 minutes. Every Hibernian supporter proven to have provoked, intimidated and assaulted must be identified and properly dealt with. 

The Scottish Football Association have to come out and take full responsibility for the entire terrible event. What hope do they have of creating a safe environment for all football supporters, at all matches, in order to promote and grow the national game in Scotland, if they cannot set the example themselves. 

Finally, the relevant authorities have to severely punish the Scottish Football Association for this shocking and unacceptable incident.

The SFA have to pay.

Read this somewhere.

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1 minute ago, Smile said:

Must be a new thing as when shitey sean chained himself to the goalposts years gone by we got done for it.  So does it just punish us then ?

This is something that irks me, If i recall correctly Rangers were fined around £5k... The club employs the services of the police and stewards to prevent this,The club should have hit them with the bill for failing in their duties or pursued shitey sean in court.

UEFA's rules use the strict liability and covers all clubs whether they like it or not,But it's not covered in Scottish football,Had the Rangers Hibs game been a European game both clubs would have been hammered.

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2 minutes ago, Smile said:

Must be a new thing as when shitey sean chained himself to the goalposts years gone by we got done for it.  So does it just punish us then ?

It would have mattered if you had been there i guess.

Both sets of fans ran on to the pitch.  Both clubs could've been done for damages but the Hibs lawyer had that thrown out.  The SFAs position is that clubs cannot be held responsible for the action of their fans which is perfectly reasonable. 

As there is no strict-liability procedure in current regulations, it means any offence can be successfully defended if a club can show they did everything ‘reasonably’ practicable to prevent disorder. 

Both Hibs and Rangers had been cited over damage to advertising equipment, while the Easter Road outfit also faced charges over the destruction of the goalposts and areas of the pitch after their late win sparked a pitch invasion which saw Rangers players attacked as they left the field.

But the judicial panel dismissed Hibs’ case as ‘irrelevant’, which meant charges against Rangers were also dropped.

Hibs, who had feared a fine as a result of their fans’ riotous behaviour, released a statement welcoming the verdict — and confirmed they would now pay the SFA compensation for damage done to the pitch.
 

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13 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

The SFAs position is quite clear.  Football clubs cannot be blamed for the action of their fans.  It doesn't matter who ran on first, both sets of fans ran on, and both clubs had fans charged with offences. 

Of course they do, why do you think they get fined for shit the fans do?

 

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4 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Both sets of fans ran on to the pitch.  Both clubs could've been done for damages but the Hibs lawyer had that thrown out.  The SFAs position is that clubs cannot be held responsible for the action of their fans which is perfectly reasonable. 

As there is no strict-liability procedure in current regulations, it means any offence can be successfully defended if a club can show they did everything ‘reasonably’ practicable to prevent disorder. 

Both Hibs and Rangers had been cited over damage to advertising equipment, while the Easter Road outfit also faced charges over the destruction of the goalposts and areas of the pitch after their late win sparked a pitch invasion which saw Rangers players attacked as they left the field.

But the judicial panel dismissed Hibs’ case as ‘irrelevant’, which meant charges against Rangers were also dropped.

Hibs, who had feared a fine as a result of their fans’ riotous behaviour, released a statement welcoming the verdict — and confirmed they would now pay the SFA compensation for damage done to the pitch.
 

 

And that's enough for you ? no action was taken at all against the perpetrators/instigators of this.

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4 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Of course they do, why do you think they get fined for shit the fans do?

 

Both sets of fans ran on the pitch, damaged the pitched, and committed offences.  I know many want a situation in witch Hibs get all the blame but that was never going to happen.  Today was about damages cause by BOTH sets of fans and as it turns out neither are required to pay.  Neither had to pay because a lawyer argued the point about strict liability and clubs not being responsible for the actions of their fans. 

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1 hour ago, Rangersfansmediawatch said:

Double standards that's what our board should be asking of the SFA.

The board should be raising the question as to why there has been no investigation into the attacks on Rangers players.

Both the SFA and the SPL through Doncaster and Regan had plenty to say when Lennon was jumped on at Tynecastle,More importantly it was an SPL game but didn't stop the SFA becoming involved.

The Scottish cup final falls under the SFA and yet Doncaster from the SPFL had absolutely nothing to say in regards to Rangers players being attacked on the pitch and neither did Regan... But both had started an investigation on the very night of the Lennon incident.

The board can easily ask why was there no investigation and point to the Lennon incident.
 

Has this been squashed because Rod Petrie is the chairman of hibs and Stuart Regan promised to help him? The decision not to investigate player attacks by the SFA has left it wide open, for open season on Rangers players. It should have been handled properly I hope the PFA demand an inquiry on the players behalf about the SFA. They have failed to recognise players safety at work issues

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7 minutes ago, Smile said:

And that's enough for you ? no action was taken at all against the perpetrators/instigators of this.

In terms of damages, which is what today was all about, I'm satisfied with the outcome.  Rangers wont pay anything whereas Hibs have decided to pay for the pitch.  This is probably the best outcome we could've hoped for.  Would you rather both clubs were fined?  Would a fine for both clubs be a victory for you? 

Taken action against those responsible is a Police matter.

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2 minutes ago, Smile said:

And that's enough for you ? no action was taken at all against the perpetrators/instigators of this.

Is that not what the polis are doing ? At the end of the day the clubs can't be held responsible for what the public do, the players should be taking action against the SFA, their safety was put at risk by a mob, that could and should have been prevented by the organisers.

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1 minute ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

In terms of damages, which is what today was all about, I'm satisfied with the outcome.  Rangers wont pay anything whereas Hibs have decided to pay for the pitch.  This is probably the best outcome we could've hoped for.  Would you rather both clubs were fined?  Would a fine for both clubs be a victory for you? 

 
 

Why should Rangers pay anything as i said were you at the game and witnessed what went on ? Why should i worry if Hibs get fined they should have.

 

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Just now, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

In terms of damages, which is what today was all about, I'm satisfied with the outcome.  Rangers wont pay anything whereas Hibs have decided to pay for the pitch.  This is probably the best outcome we could've hoped for.  Would you rather both clubs were fined?  Would a fine for both clubs be a victory for you? 

I can accept the out come in regards that our club will not be fined. What I can't except is that the players safety at work has not been addressed properly. Measures should have been taken to acknowledge our players in todays statement by the SFA  and say what they plan to do to stop it happening again.

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6 minutes ago, Sweetheart said:

Has this been squashed because Rod Petrie is the chairman of hibs and Stuart Regan promised to help him? The decision not to investigate player attacks by the SFA has left it wide open, for open season on Rangers players. It should have been handled properly I hope the PFA demand an inquiry on the players behalf about the SFA. They have fail to recognise players safety at work issues

The SFA is a cabal that looks after their favourite pets...  Has Fraser Wishart made even one statement in regards the players he represents. He's another who is a mealy mouthed shitebag.

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6 minutes ago, ritchieshearercaldow said:

Is that not what the polis are doing ? At the end of the day the clubs can't be held responsible for what the public do, the players should be taking action against the SFA, their safety was put at risk by a mob, that could and should have been prevented by the organisers.

 
 

The police did nothing at the match as they were all at our end, Clubs are accountable as tickets issued can be accounted for as they are sent out by the club. Agree the Players should be taking action as should the Pfa.

Funny thing is when we beat Peterhead in the egg and bacon cup the stewards all came to our end and there were thousands of them as usual expecting trouble just from us never saw that at the Cup final at their end.

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9 minutes ago, Rangersfansmediawatch said:

The SFA is a cabal that looks after their favourite pets...  Has Fraser Wishart made even one statement in regards the players he represents. He's another who is a mealy mouthed shitebag.

 

Quote

 

http://pfascotland.co.uk/2016/news/pfa-scotland-statement-on-scottish-cup-final/

Safety in the workplace is of paramount importance and it is forgotten that footballers’ workplace is the field of play, where they perform assuming like every worker that the environment is safe. On Saturday this was not the case and it is completely unacceptable that the safety of our members was compromised in the scenes which followed the full time whistle.The wellbeing of our members was endangered and they were left open to threats and intimidation. No-one should have to face these unsavoury conditions in their workplace, be it on the football pitch or an office environment.

This was never investigated in the Bowen report.

Has Fraser Wishart made any statement yet on the SFA statement?

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9 minutes ago, Smile said:

Why should Rangers pay anything as i said were you at the game and witnessed what went on ? Why should i worry if Hibs get fined they should have.

 

Do you accept that Rangers fans took it upon themselves to climb over the advertising boards and enter the pitch damaging both in the process? 

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10 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Today was about damages cause by BOTH sets of fans and as it turns out neither are required to pay.

What damage did the Rangers fans cause ? They were accused of damaging LED boards,The only damage i have seen regards LED boards in all the video's after the game i have seen were the ones the Hibs fans pulled over and jumped on both at their end and the Rangers end of the stadium.

Have you seen something i haven't ? 

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1 minute ago, Smile said:

The police did nothing at the match as they were all at our end, Clubs are accountable as tickets issued can be accounted for as they are sent out by the club. Agree the Players should be taking action as should the Pfa.

Totally agree m8, it all comes back to the polis but I can't see the PFA taking on the polis. Took years for Liverpool fans to get anywhere with them.

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