Should Celtic FC be shut down?

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, saintbob1969 said:

Matthew LeTissier is a grown man who just recently came out with his story, he didnt cover it up but he didnt feel he could talk about it until now, would you prosecute LeTissier?

Jeez your a bellend of the highest order, if you can't tell the difference between someone who is compliant in child abuse and the victim. 

With that I will leave you to your warped wee mind. 

[saintbob1969 1,453]

5 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

So your saying an organisation that has allowed child abuse to go unreported and covered up for almost 50years that we know of, shouldn't be hit with the full might of the law. 

If it is proven that certain people had evidence or overlooked evidence they should be prosecuted but then again, a high ranking homophobic Catholic Archbishop of Scotland recently was proven to have been a bit gropey and this Scottish Government let him fly off into the sunset. We should have put that nonce behind bars too. 

[saintbob1969 1,453]

1 minute ago, cushynumber said:

is pointing out that cellic have been covering up child abuse  - all be it with a huge dollop of schadenfreude - points scoring? maybe it is. But that doesnt detract from the point being scored - i.e the systematic cover up of abuse. Why should Rangers fans be made to feel guilty for that very schadenfreude? the club that hates us and wants us gone is suddenly embroiled in a potential disaster and I for one am lapping it up.

The caveat to that would be that unlike EBTs and tax cases involving millionaires, this is NOT a victimless crime. So I feel sympathy for the people this has happened to and disgust at the perpetrators.

I'll still be glad to watch cellic burn though.

See this is more like it, I can totally get behind you and what you are saying much better than I have.

[bluenose_n1 536]

9 minutes ago, saintbob1969 said:

Much as I despise organised religion and Celtic football club I'd have to say it is a stretch to say the entire organisation are complicit.

When we catch these creeps in the Scouts or the BB or a local youth club are you seriously saying those organisations should be closed down as well, because I don't think you are.

But if it turns out the bb or scouts knew but just told him to leave one just to join the other and do it again then yes they are at fault

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,123]

22 minutes ago, saintbob1969 said:

Are you kidding, this is a thread asking us if we should close down a football club. 

We as Bears cannot shut down a football club but just remember the Tims wanted us dead, so what's the difference ?

I haven't voted as it's pretty pointless but I can understand the feeling behind the question 

[SpidermansGaffer 2,552]

10 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

is pointing out that cellic have been covering up child abuse  - all be it with a huge dollop of schadenfreude - points scoring? maybe it is. But that doesnt detract from the point being scored - i.e the systematic cover up of abuse. Why should Rangers fans be made to feel guilty for that very schadenfreude? the club that hates us and wants us gone is suddenly embroiled in a potential disaster and I for one am lapping it up.

The caveat to that would be that unlike EBTs and tax cases involving millionaires, this is NOT a victimless crime. So I feel sympathy for the people this has happened to and disgust at the perpetrators.

I'll still be glad to watch cellic burn though.

Our Club & fans have been demonised for the last few years over what?? A tax loophole that has yet to proved illegal in a court of law, we've lost untold millions in players & revenue, cast down to the bottom leagues & threatened to have our history taken away. 

So, I'm with you mate, I'm absolutely lapping this up, Rangers will ALWAYS hold the moral high ground over these bastards - ebt's or fucking not.

Not point scoring in my eyes, I just want a bit of parity in the punishments handed down to them (if they even get any)

[Kai_Johansen 978]

I went for no, I want this repugnant organisation to be forever known throughout the sporting world as the club the turned a blind eye to years of horrific acts of sexual depravity against children. I want them to carry this shame wherever they go. I want every sporting institution, and every parent that has ever sent their kids of to football to know that no matter the level of criminal sexual depravity this club will do everything it can to cover up their despicable crime.

It's up to the greater footballing community to place eternal shame on everyone connected with this club, both past and preset that put their personal reputation, and the reputation of this shameful parochial organisation before the safety of the many kids effected by this horrific criminal cover-up. The longer they leave making a statement, and an apology the greater their worldwide ignominy.

Horrific, as it is to date, it's my opinion there is much worse still to come out!

[Gazza1212 1,212]

7 minutes ago, saintbob1969 said:

I'm simply appealing to fellow Bears to consider thinking a bit more about it. A wee 147 votes on a football forum isn't a comprehensive slice of reasonable non-reactionary thinking humanity. A majority is never a sign of being correct: a few hundred years of Roman Catholicism or believing the earth was flat should remind us all about that fact.

Consider my response a reverse fishing trip if you want. Or/ at a push, I'd have to say yes: yes it isn't decent to use child abuse to score points. The only reasonable decent things to do about child abuse are report it and prosecute it and where possible prevent it.

Your turn.

Firstly there's no questioning the fact we're morally superior to them, the reformation is testimony to that.

What's Angered most people on here is not the fact they try to portray themselves as whiter than white. Not the fact they are guilty of hypocrisy beyond belief or even the fact they are culpable yes culpable even to this present day.  It's simply the lengths they've went to to conceal the truth, suppress the media, silence the victims using guilt.  It Angers me greatly the success they have had in doing so because I genuinely believe we will never know the full extent of their crimes and let's be honest that's what we're talking about here a crime against humanity. Given all of the above im struggling to find a good reason why anybody given the choice would still opt to have them around.  

Over to you.

[Skelf 1,153]

Penn state anyone??

[Hamie 4,831]

If I was a victim at a club that this Mccafferty went to after Celtic. 

And it transpires that Celtic knew he was a beast but didn't report him.... 

 

I'd be suing Celtic for every penny they have and that includes all Dodgy Dermots buried pirate chests. 

 

[cumnockbear 2,446]

Shut them down like penn state, obliterate them from history, jail all involved in the scandel from abusers to board,coaching staff, players who kept it hidden, demolish their shitehole of a stadium and build a massive Rangers super store on the land once Ashley is gone from our club. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

1 minute ago, Hamie said:

If I was a victim at a club that this Mccafferty went to after Celtic. 

And it transpires that Celtic knew he was a beast but didn't report him.... 

 

I'd be suing Celtic for every penny they have and that includes all Dodgy Dermots buried pirate chests. 

 

They cant sue until the 3 Year limitation period  for historical child abuse is removed. After that, its open season.

[cushynumber 25,178]

1 minute ago, cumnockbear said:

Shut them down like penn state, obliterate them from history, jail all involved in the scandel from abusers to board,coaching staff, players who kept it hidden, demolish their shitehole of a stadium and build a massive Rangers super store on the land once Ashley is gone from our club. 

Penn state havent been shut down. Not even close.

[saintbob1969 1,453]

I consider myself to be better than them on many counts, I do not support terrorism, the Roman church, I don't claim we are the greatest fans in the world, I don't pretend to be upset or offended by everything, I don't try to get the nearest competition put down the divisions for years, but I'd be happy to see them punished as a club with fines and points deducted and even dropped down divisions, but I don't want them put out of business, as has been said elsewhere their shame should be branded onto their foreheads and the world would see them for what they are every day for ever.

8 minutes ago, Gazza1212 said:

Firstly there's no questioning the fact we're morally superior to them, the reformation is testimony to that.

What's Angered most people on here is not the fact they try to portray themselves as whiter than white. Not the fact they are guilty of hypocrisy beyond belief or even the fact they are culpable yes culpable even to this present day.  It's simply the lengths they've went to to conceal the truth, suppress the media, silence the victims using guilt.  It Angers me greatly the success they have had in doing so because I genuinely believe we will never know the full extent of their crimes and let's be honest that's what we're talking about here a crime against humanity. Given all of the above im struggling to find a good reason why anybody given the choice would still opt to have them around.  

Over to you.

 

[cumnockbear 2,446]

4 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

Penn state havent been shut down. Not even close.

You're right  i thought they had been, shut the tarriers down regardless  

[RyanMac 185]

3 hours ago, Inigo said:

Yeah, but that's the point. In this case by 'an organisation' we're probably talking about groups of individuals that are no longer there. Maybe some that are. The organisation also includes a whole raft of people that took no part in it, and the collapse of sellic could affect people outwith the organisation that had no part in it either. I don't see any benefit in disbanding a club or revoking it's license for any extended period.

Where it's possible to punish those that are responsible and avoid punishing those that are not, that should be done. Which is why shutting a club down would be wrong IMO. Maybe the only exception would be that if it has been repeated (which it seems to have been), then shutting the club down for a short time to ensure immediate measures are put in place to avoid future incidents. Or even just disbanding their youth wing. Other than that I'd say everything is on the table for consideration.

In my view, punishments should be as follows, in order of importance...

1. Prison for those responsible for child abuse.

2. Prison for those that failed to report child abuse to the police or made efforts to cover it up.

3. Financial penalties for the club and compensation payments.

4. Stripping of titles for the club during the relevant periods.

5. Relegation.

I do agree that an example should be made to make organisations understand what will happen if you fail to put the appropriate structures in place to prevent child abuse, and put child welfare above your own image.

Every person that works for them knows their history. By not questioning it,  or continuing to work for them,  makes them just as guilty in my eyes. 

[Gazza1212 1,212]

2 minutes ago, saintbob1969 said:

I consider myself to be better than them on many counts, I do not support terrorism, the Roman church, I don't claim we are the greatest fans in the world, I don't pretend to be upset or offended by everything, I don't try to get the nearest competition put down the divisions for years, but I'd be happy to see them punished as a club with fines and points deducted and even dropped down divisions, but I don't want them put out of business, as has been said elsewhere their shame should be branded onto their foreheads and the world would see them for what they are every day for ever.

 

Then how to put a stop to the unadulterated hatred they continue to demonstrate towards our club?  It's an unquenchable thirst they have. Branded forever more or not they've made it abundantly clear that's never going to stop and it goes way way beyond rivalry. 

A few years ago I probably was of similar opinion but not now. I consider myself to be level headed and relatively street wise but over the last few years even I've been taken aback at the consistency of their poison. If the handle for the trap door was in front of me right now I'd happily put them out their collective misery without hesitation.

[saintbob1969 1,453]

Just now, Gazza1212 said:

Then how to put a stop to the unadulterated hatred they continue to demonstrate towards our club?  It's an unquenchable thirst they have. Branded forever more or not they've made it abundantly clear that's never going to stop and it goes way way beyond rivalry. 

A few years ago I probably was of similar opinion but not now. I consider myself to be level headed and relatively street wise but over the last few years even I've been taken aback at the consistency of their poison. If the handle for the trap door was in front of me right now I'd happily put them out their collective misery without hesitation.

Let them be obsessed with us. Scotland is a poisoned land at present. It will not improve with more poison. 

[Inigo 32,526]

10 minutes ago, RyanMac said:

Every person that works for them knows their history. By not questioning it,  or continuing to work for them,  makes them just as guilty in my eyes. 

Every person? I don't know that we can say that. It's impossible to know the circumstances of everybody that works for that club. Wee Mrs O'Malley that's worked there for 50 years in some wee obscure job might not. Wee Mr Murphy that's got kids to feed that is aware that stuff happened before he was employed. His kids sure don't deserve for their father to be unemployed. And that's apart from the fact that you don't deserve the same kind of punishment for abusing or actively covering something up as deciding that you want to stay employed for an organisation that you know has been morally corrupt in the past. 

Those kinds of people don't deserve to lose their jobs. They didn't do anything criminal. 

The people that did it need punished, and some significant measure of corporate responsibility demanded. Destroying an organisation that can be put right and punished without doing so, and without even the slightest possibility of punishing someone that doesn't really deserve it, would just seem vengeful or opportunist. 

[Inigo 32,526]

5 minutes ago, Gazza1212 said:

Then how to put a stop to the unadulterated hatred they continue to demonstrate towards our club?  It's an unquenchable thirst they have. Branded forever more or not they've made it abundantly clear that's never going to stop and it goes way way beyond rivalry. 

A few years ago I probably was of similar opinion but not now. I consider myself to be level headed and relatively street wise but over the last few years even I've been taken aback at the consistency of their poison. If the handle for the trap door was in front of me right now I'd happily put them out their collective misery without hesitation.

See, that's the wrong attitude for this kind for thing. This should be all about child abuse, not opportunism, however vindictive towards us they've been in the past. This should have nothing to do with hatred towards our club from them.

[Gooseman 889]

1 minute ago, saintbob1969 said:

Let them be obsessed with us. Scotland is a poisoned land at present. It will not improve with more poison. 

Its not about poison or point scoring. Justice has to be seen to be done,  not just against celtic but every football club that stood back and did nothing. Regardless of the size of the club regardless of who the club is,  they need to be treated with extreme prejudice. 

If we cannot protect our children from sexual predators at places like sports clubs then I'm afraid that as a society we are well and truly fucked. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

2 minutes ago, Inigo said:

See, that's the wrong attitude for this kind for thing. This should be all about child abuse, not opportunism, however vindictive towards us they've been in the past. This should have nothing to do with hatred towards our club from them.

your right. It shouldn't...you cant get away from the fact this is cellic though. None of us can. That explains the attitude.

I dont think anybody is suggesting that rangers fans will be the most impartial in all this. But neither do i expect to see journalists trying to draw some moral equivalence between the people who perform actual child abuse and someone who points out that child abuse has taken place. Surely the reason for pointing it out is completely irrelevant in the face of the actual charge?

[saintbob1969 1,453]

1 minute ago, Gooseman said:

Its not about poison or point scoring. Justice has to be seen to be done,  not just against celtic but every football club that stood back and did nothing. Regardless of the size of the club regardless of who the club is,  they need to be treated with extreme prejudice. 

If we cannot protect our children from sexual predators at places like sports clubs then I'm afraid that as a society we are well and truly fucked. 

I've said it already and I'll repeat it again and again if needs be. This thread is not asking us whether we proscecute anyone if there is evidence against them. If it were asking that, I'd vote in agreement. To be clear: all of the guilty should be punished with every element of the law. This crime should be out in the clear light of day. 

[GMac 1,405]

If this was the States, Celtic would be gone by the end of the month. This is Scotland, the rights of the individual don't exist.

[Inigo 32,526]

2 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

your right. It shouldn't...you cant get away from the fact this is cellic though. None of us can. That explains the attitude.

I dont think anybody is suggesting that rangers fans will be the most impartial in all this. But neither do i expect to see journalists trying to draw some moral equivalence between the people who perform actual child abuse and someone who points out that child abuse has taken place. Surely the reason for pointing it out is completely irrelevant in the face of the actual charge?

No, absolutely. And I don't take any massive moral offence at Rangers fans wanting to twist the knife. I see it as understandable but the wrong way of looking at things at the same time. I'm fully aware that this is going to sound supercillious as fuck, but with these kinds of things it's always best to just take a moment and remind one's self of what's important here.