Draft #1 to Liewell, Press and "authority" version too!

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Dear Mr. Lawwell,

I have been concerned by the venomous songs sung by the supporters who represent your club, Celtic FC, at both home and away games. We are meant to be in a new period of stopping offensive songs and I'm sure you will share this sentiment that everyone should be respected.

I would like to know if you have taken any action, or are intending to do so in the case of the following songs and chants. Firstly, I would like to know what actions have been, and will be, taken against those sing songs about “Orange bastards”, which can only relate to Protestants in this context.

Secondly, I want know what has been done about those who sing in support of the IRA, a group who murdered many innocent British Civilians. I'm sure your colleague, Mr Reid, a former Home Secretary, will be aware of the genuine hurt caused, by the glorification of such terrorists, to those who lost loved ones.

Furthermore, I am interested to discover your actions in the case of songs such as “I pray you die with a bullet from the IRA” aimed at Rangers players.

Another particularly disturbing example is the type of song which mocks the deaths of Rangers fans at the Ibrox disaster. Again, such songs cause great offence and I would like to know of any steps you have taken to counter them.

Yet more offence has been caused by a chant about Paul Gascoigne's latest tragic episode. Human decency was breached again. Your handling of this matter is of great interest to me. As you know, a former captain and current coaching staff member of your club has had similar problems and chants of this nature are greatly offensive. Could you please supply me information pertaining to your clubs measures on such chants?

I'm also concerned about the usage of the terms “hun” and “mason”. The former is considered a sectarian slur by most people in Scotland, the Police Force of Northern Ireland, anti-sectarian charities such as Nil By Mouth and I believe it can also be considered as such under Scottish Law. The latter is also used to imply that someone, usually a referee or authority figure, is an establishment anti-Catholic bigot. Both terms are clearly offensive and sectarian. I would like to learn of your actions in this context too.

Finally, I'm sure you are aware that a potentially xenophobic song about the Irish famine has caused offence. Would you agree that both anti-British and anti-Irish songs about tragic events in our history serve no purpose in the context of a sporting fixture? How are you tackling these songs that vilify the British in and glory in the famine in the case your own club's supporters?

I look forward to your answer and hope you will be able to reassure me that you are doing everything to tackle those who commit the crimes against decency listed above. It appears we have a real chance to move on and leave history behind. I hope that you, and all the other representatives that I have contacted, will be able to prove the positive steps you are taking.

Yours sincerely,

The one for others is lower down but will go in another thread too!

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

This was knocked up quickly. Please point out errors. I'll tidy it and let's get our arses in gear before they win another watch.

[chris_glasgow 2]

pointless even sending that, he wouldt even open it

[Bluebell11 0]

I would be very interested to hear what response you get from the club. It's good to see something positive being done. :unionflag:

[Gazzas_Flute 11]

Post the final copy when your done mate , I'll pass it on to every Bear i know to send off.

Its time we fought back.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Yeah but then we send a copy of it to others, edited for them.

[tommy2212 151]

as soon as they read the first line it will be stuck straight in the bin

[royalbluebell 38]

It's not pointless, something has to be done. Who else are you sending it to Oleg?

[Gazzas_Flute 11]

pointless even sending that, he wouldt even open it

Better than just lying down and accept it while our name continues to be tarnished.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

I like it mate,email a copy to Bill Leckie etc,his email add is in the Sun every week,

then the media might press him on what he plans to do rather than Liewell ignoring it

[tedster 0]

no errors fom what i see

great letter btw

what's addy to send

[nvager 498]

Send a copy to leading politicians and policemen, even the Royal Family and the National newspapers. Make sure that CFC KNOW that copies have been sent to all the above PLUS the SPL,SFA and UEFA in particular.

Great letter.

[chris_glasgow 2]

pointless even sending that, he wouldt even open it

Better than just lying down and accept it while our name continues to be tarnished.

you think he will read it

write to a MSP or MP

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

That wasnt hard

bill.leckie@the-sun.co.uk

[Ace 3,556]

I think this should be issued as an open letter to the press.

If we could actually get this signed by the members of this board (numbering in the hundreds) it would certainly have an impact .. i hope.

[bluepeter 5,627]

Good so far Oleg. I was wondering how far we'd get with an open letter? Do you think anyone would print it if it was made clear that it was being sent to Liewell, Scottish Government, all Scottish press, etc?

A letter to Liewell on its own will achieve nothing, I fear, but if you could get something like that in print it might be a start.

Good work though, and nothing needs to be changed as far as I can see. Tone is perfect i.e. not defending our singing, but putting it in context

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

You are barking up the wrong tree Oleg.

If you want to send e-mails and letters then send them in the direction of David Murray and Martin Bain. Celtic only get away with singing such songs because those that run our club refuse to speak-out and defend the Rangers support from the vociferous criticism thrown at us by the media. Liewell will take confidence from such an e-mail, as there is no way a Rangers fan would be contacting him directly if there were any other channels of complaint that have been tried and work. He will see this as Celtic Football Club in control of the tabloids and pundits in this country.

To be honest, i couldn't care what Celtic sing. In a footballing arena supporters will do anything to wind-up the opposition. But the same rule should be applied to Rangers aswell. We cannot have a level playing field if Rangers supporters are pilloried by the media for near enough every song we sing whereas other clubs can get away with much worse.

[Gazzas_Flute 11]

pointless even sending that, he wouldt even open it

Better than just lying down and accept it while our name continues to be tarnished.

you think he will read it

write to a MSP or MP

Send it to anyone with any importance , It will pass hands.

If it get sents a few thousand times it will get noticed.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

I think involving the press is the best way,

then he cant ignore it and the press will want answers,

when he can ignore us quite easily

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

pointless even sending that, he wouldt even open it

Better than just lying down and accept it while our name continues to be tarnished.

you think he will read it

write to a MSP or MP

I'm doing another copy for mailing to others:

Dear ,

I have been concerned by the venomous songs sung by the supporters who represent Celtic FC, at both home and away games. We are meant to be in a new period of stopping offensive songs and I'm sure you will share this sentiment that everyone should be respected.

I would like to know if you have taken any action, or are intending to do so in the case of the following songs and chants. Firstly, I would like to know what actions have been, and will be, taken against those sing songs about “Orange bastards”, which can only relate to Protestants in this context.

Secondly, I want know what has been done about those who sing in support of the IRA, a group who murdered many innocent British Civilians. I'm sure you will be aware of the genuine hurt caused, by the glorification of such terrorists, to those who lost loved ones.

Furthermore, I am interested to discover your actions in the case of songs such as “I pray you die with a bullet from the IRA” aimed at Rangers players.

Another particularly disturbing example is the type of song which mocks the deaths of Rangers fans at the Ibrox disaster. Again, such songs cause great offence and I would like to know of any steps you have taken to counter them.

Yet more offence has been caused by a chant about Paul Gascoigne's latest tragic episode. Human decency was breached again. Your handling of this matter is of great interest to me. As you know, many people have similar problems and chants of this nature are greatly offensive. Could you please supply me information pertaining to your clubs measures on such chants?

I'm also concerned about the usage of the terms “hun” and “mason”. The former is considered a sectarian slur by most people in Scotland, the Police Force of Northern Ireland, anti-sectarian charities such as Nil By Mouth and I believe it can also be considered as such under Scottish Law. The latter is also used to imply that someone, usually a referee or authority figure, is an establishment anti-Catholic bigot. Both terms are clearly offensive and sectarian. I would like to learn of your actions in this context too.

Finally, I'm sure you are aware that a potentially xenophobic song about the Irish famine has caused offence. Would you agree that both anti-British and anti-Irish songs about tragic events in our history serve no purpose in the context of a sporting fixture? How are you tackling these songs that vilify the British in and glory in the famine in the case of the supporters of Celtic FC?

I look forward to your answer and hope you will be able to reassure me that you are doing everything to tackle those who commit the crimes against decency listed above. It appears we have a real chance to move on and leave history behind. I hope that you, and all the other representatives that I have contacted, will be able to prove the positive steps you are taking.

Yours sincerely,

This can be sent to MSPs, MPs, SPL, SFA, RFC, CFC, and even Show Racism the Red Card. Strathclyde Police too.

We have to play the same game. ....and quickly.

Get some email and postal addresses. Send it to papers, radio stations and newsdesks. Let's get our side out there too.

Sitting on our own arses won't do a thing.

Post email and postal addresses here too.

I'm off for a piss but I'll be back.

[Ace 3,556]

This is the one time when i think that the board Admin could contact other Forums/Rangers sites and see if a concerted effort can be made to bring OUR opinion to the matter.

[NOLUWDC 1]

send it to everyone. Murray, Lawell, MSP's... the lot

[MKGER 138]

im in no way offended by what they sing, its petty sending that. all this telling on each other is ruining the atmosphere at both grounds, let it go.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Good so far Oleg. I was wondering how far we'd get with an open letter? Do you think anyone would print it if it was made clear that it was being sent to Liewell, Scottish Government, all Scottish press, etc?

A letter to Liewell on its own will achieve nothing, I fear, but if you could get something like that in print it might be a start.

Good work though, and nothing needs to be changed as far as I can see. Tone is perfect i.e. not defending our singing, but putting it in context

You are barking up the wrong tree Oleg.

If you want to send e-mails and letters then send them in the direction of David Murray and Martin Bain. Celtic only get away with singing such songs because those that run our club refuse to speak-out and defend the Rangers support from the vociferous criticism thrown at us by the media. Liewell will take confidence from such an e-mail, as there is no way a Rangers fan would be contacting him directly if there were any other channels of complaint that have been tried and work. He will see this as Celtic Football Club in control of the tabloids and pundits in this country.

To be honest, i couldn't care what Celtic sing. In a footballing arena supporters will do anything to wind-up the opposition. But the same rule should be applied to Rangers aswell. We cannot have a level playing field if Rangers supporters are pilloried by the media for near enough every song we sing whereas other clubs can get away with much worse.

Send it to everyone we think can be of relevance. Yes, Murray and Bain too, but use the 2nd version and put the appropriate name in. Remember to include your own name and address when sending by post so you can get reply.

Start fighting back. They have their hate to fuel them. We've got to retaliate.

[Ace 3,556]

I wondered if the opening line to the more "open" letter should be something like ...

In light of recent media coverage of the singing of songs which deem to be considered "offensive" or in "poor taste" I have also been concerned by the venomous songs sung by the supporters who represent Celtic FC and other SPL clubs.

The reason being is that by quoting Celtic in the first line, it could easily appear that we are simply lashing out at our own accusers .. which to the the press and others will just seem petulant.