the drummer 414 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 why not what if he had been a doctor or a joiner he would be back working Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds 3,359 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 why not what if he had been a doctor or a joiner he would be back workingA doctor convicted of rape would most likely be struck off, and never to practice again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre 1,663 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 To be found guilty the jury have to be convinced both that the victim was incapable of consent and that the accused could not reasonably have believed there was consent. I gather that the jury believed there was some room for doubt in the case of McDonald, since the girl went back to the hotel with him. Evans, who found the girl naked and drunk to the point where McDonald thought she needed to be looked after, and had spent no time with her, could not reasonably have believed this unless he simply rejects the notion that a person can be too drunk to consent, which is not his decision.That's where for me it's a bit silly as going back to a hotel with someone is neither consent or indicative of consent nor should it ever be reasonable to assume consent when a girl is as drunk as Clayton ought to have know she was having spent some time with her so that really should bit be reasonable doubt. I just struggle with the logic that the jury have concluded that, from footage of her arrival, a woman is far beyond the point of being capable of consent yet they don't conclude it reasonable that the guy with her at that point ought to have noticed this also Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieD 18,928 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 That's where for me it's a bit silly as going back to a hotel with someone is neither consent or indicative of consent nor should it ever be reasonable to assume consent when a girl is as drunk as Clayton ought to have know she was having spent some time with her so that really should bit be reasonable doubt. I just struggle with the logic that the jury have concluded that, from footage of her arrival, a woman is far beyond the point of being capable of consent yet they don't conclude it reasonable that the guy with her at that point ought to have noticed this alsoI imagine this is the kind of case where performance under examination weighs heavily on the minds of the jurors. In any case, most of your misgivings seem to lead to the question "why was McDonald acquitted?", not "why was Evans convicted?". It is entirely possible to get the former wrong and the latter right. Given that McDonald was prowling the street looking for a girl to take to his pre-booked room and took the first drunk girl who stumbled across his path, drunk enough that she literally pissed the bed, it seems possible to me that they DID get the former wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithgersbear 3,225 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Ched made his bed, he will have to lie in it. Can't explain how stupid he was to do what he did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz52 11,837 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He's a convicted rapist so therefore he shouldn't be anywhere near football stadiums packed with families. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 20,361 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He's a convicted rapist so therefore he shouldn't be anywhere near football stadiums packed with families.Yeah, won't someone think of the children ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre 1,663 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I imagine this is the kind of case where performance under examination weighs heavily on the minds of the jurors. In any case, most of your misgivings seem to lead to the question "why was McDonald acquitted?", not "why was Evans convicted?". It is entirely possible to get the former wrong and the latter right. Given that McDonald was prowling the street looking for a girl to take to his pre-booked room and took the first drunk girl who stumbled across his path, drunk enough that she literally pissed the bed, it seems possible to me that they DID get the former wrong.Yes, my initial reading of the information available made me doubt Evans conviction from a purely evidential basis and I still don't think it is the most sound of convictions, however, my position as it stands is as you suggest, once the court has accepted the particular scenario it has in Ched's case I am asking why was McDonald acquitted rather than why was Ched convicted. The scenario that sees one man innocent and the other guilty is an unlikely one. I think it likely the jury has got it wrong with one of them but it's hardly surprising when you consider what a jury actually is, a panel of people with no idea what they are doing. I'm also aware that very little was in dispute in the case and to me it's two men who haven't stopped at any point to ask themselves whether what they're doing is decent human behaviour nevermind whether it's criminal or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP FC 400 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This pish about denying him a living rips my knitting.He was a footballer, now he is an unemployed footballer, if he jogs down to the bru, it am sure they will sort him out with a new profession.No one has the god given right to do the job they want,In 10years time, he will no longer be a footballer, you are not a footballer for life.And anyone that thinks it's right to do what he was found guilty of should be placed on the sex offenders list, obviously got social skill problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVanDarche 23 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think he was wrongfully convicted, and upon his conviction being quashed he should be back playing football. Go onto his website - very interesting video of the "victim" entering the hotel, apparently too drunk to give consent. I've pumped burds in a worse state, and I'm not a rapist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrangemouthRSC 832 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I asked ched evans the best way to Oldham.'round the throat after a bottle of vodka' wasnt the reply I expected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOAT 30,449 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This pish about denying him a living rips my knitting.He was a footballer, now he is an unemployed footballer, if he jogs down to the bru, it am sure they will sort him out with a new profession.No one has the god given right to do the job they want,In 10years time, he will no longer be a footballer, you are not a footballer for life.And anyone that thinks it's right to do what he was found guilty of should be placed on the sex offenders list, obviously got social skill problems.He pumped a drunk burd, that's not fucking rape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin93 136 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He pumped a drunk burd, that's not fucking rape.Oh dear Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff crap in the head 120 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Don't know much about the case but having watched the video, she doesn't look particularly drunk! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC Eagle 4,888 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 No. Which is why Clayton McDonald walked free.Ched Evans didn't take her home, he turned up uninvited with mates who started filming outside the window, lied his way into the room to have a crack at a girl his mate then told the hotel porter to look after because she was hammered, and crept back out down the fire escape. (These are uncontested facts). Ever done that?Down the Fire Escape? Is that a 'fact'? Thats just one piece of made up shite in your post. Room 14 is on the Ground Floor of the hotel. You seem to have looked at the 'uncontested evidence' and made up an alternate version. The Fire Exit door is the closest exit to Room 14. I've stayed at that hotel more than once. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOAT 30,449 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Oh dearAre you telling me it is? I'm willing to be most men on here are rapists then, either that or virgins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieD 18,928 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Down the Fire Escape? Is that a 'fact'? Thats just one piece of made up shite in your post. Room 14 is on the Ground Floor of the hotel.You seem to have looked at the 'uncontested evidence' and made up an alternate version. The Fire Exit door is the closest exit to Room 14. I've stayed at that hotel more than once.Oh my, I said down when it's actually through. Quash the conviction now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacBoyd 5,438 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Tend to agree with goat here. Surely if she contented at the time but regretted after that's not rape Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieD 18,928 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Tend to agree with goat here. Surely if she contented at the time but regretted after that's not rapeWhich is why the jury had to determine whether or not she consented, or was even capable. They decided she did not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOAT 30,449 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Which is why the jury had to determine whether or not she consented, or was even capable. They decided she did not.How can complete strangers possibly prove that? So what you're telling me is my missus falls out with me, takes the huff, she then goes and tells the police when she was drunk she used to come in, some state and we'd have sex, but she was in that much of state she couldn't possibly have properly consented, and that makes me a rapist?Fuck off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 20,361 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 If she's claiming to be too drunk to know what she was doing she must've drank a shit load in between walking into the hotel (which she managed just fine) and Evans pumping her. The full case reeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkyyy 450 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The victim has never accused him of rape by the way .. That in itself tells a story Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegKuznetsov 10,816 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I think he was wrongfully convicted, and upon his conviction being quashed he should be back playing football. Go onto his website - very interesting video of the "victim" entering the hotel, apparently too drunk to give consent. I've pumped burds in a worse state, and I'm not a rapist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godfather 71,870 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The victim has never accused him of rape by the way .. That in itself tells a storySaid she couldn't remember the intercourse.So in future guys...don't sleep with a drunk otherwise you may end up in the clink. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone 7,678 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Said she couldn't remember the intercourse.So in future guys...don't sleep with a drunk otherwise you may end up in the clink.To be fair most women I sleep with cant remember the intercourse Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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