ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Anyone one else here he was too ? but he still knew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottylad72 19 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Stein was a Protestant, whether he followed the gers is another matter. He was also meant to be a member of the Masonic lodge. However after he left them he was given the opportunity to return to them, not on the board or anything like that, he was in fact offered the Job of running the scum pools, as they would not let a proddy on the board. They take great delight in celebrating the man, but never acknowledge there snub. He did know you know, you know that anyway don't you know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kplfishtank 4,656 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 dont know whether he was a rangers fan but those pics when he was out helping the dying at ibrox means he has my respect and what happened at parkhead with the other incidents well i dont know all the facts so probably best not commenting on it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youllneverwinaway 0 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 dont know whether he was a rangers fan but those pics when he was out helping the dying at ibrox means he has my respect and what happened at parkhead with the other incidents well i dont know all the facts so probably best not commenting on it Spot on mate re Ibrox Disaster. As for the Parkhead thing. He knew all right. In fact, he was the ONE person who actually done anything about it at Celtic Park. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottylad72 19 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Fact Torbett abused young boys at Celtic boys club. Fact as soon as Stein found out, Torbet was sent packing. Question. Why was Torbett allowed to continue with his life uninterrupted for thirty years which has led to him opening and maintaining a successful business in that time. Answer. The board of Celtic FC covered up the fact that Torbett was a child molestor to "keep the good name of Celtic", as for Stein, he knew and did nothing about it, merely doing as he was told. This only came to light because Tommy Burns wanted to get Torbett back, however Fergus McCann had found out the truth and the Police were brought in to investigate the matter. Tommy Burns I believe had no knowledge of this matter until Fergus told him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youllneverwinaway 0 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Fact Torbett abused young boys at Celtic boys club. Fact as soon as Stein found out, Torbet was sent packing. Question. Why was Torbett allowed to continue with his life uninterrupted for thirty years which has led to him opening and maintaining a successful business in that time. Answer. The board of Celtic FC covered up the fact that Torbett was a child molestor to "keep the good name of Celtic", as for Stein, he knew and did nothing about it, merely doing as he was told. This only came to light because Tommy Burns wanted to get Torbett back, however Fergus McCann had found out the truth and the Police were brought in to investigate the matter. Tommy Burns I believe had no knowledge of this matter until Fergus told him. See you were doing well there with your FACTS but ran out of steam as soon as you moved onto hearsay stuff. The law and society in general during the 60's and 70's was completely different from what it is now. It wouldnt have been Steins responsibility to go to the police as it would be nowadays and it is entirely possible that the abused boys families didnt want to bring "shame" on themselves by taking this further with the police. That is how these things were viewed back then by the majority of society. If you stick to the facts. Stein found out and kicked his arse out of the club before showing the type of man he is/was by helping carrying stretchers and doing all he could during the Ibrox disaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalbluebell 38 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Fact Torbett abused young boys at Celtic boys club. Fact as soon as Stein found out, Torbet was sent packing. Question. Why was Torbett allowed to continue with his life uninterrupted for thirty years which has led to him opening and maintaining a successful business in that time. Answer. The board of Celtic FC covered up the fact that Torbett was a child molestor to "keep the good name of Celtic", as for Stein, he knew and did nothing about it, merely doing as he was told. This only came to light because Tommy Burns wanted to get Torbett back, however Fergus McCann had found out the truth and the Police were brought in to investigate the matter. Tommy Burns I believe had no knowledge of this matter until Fergus told him. See you were doing well there with your FACTS but ran out of steam as soon as you moved onto hearsay stuff. The law and society in general during the 60's and 70's was completely different from what it is now. It wouldnt have been Steins responsibility to go to the police as it would be nowadays and it is entirely possible that the abused boys families didnt want to bring "shame" on themselves by taking this further with the police. That is how these things were viewed back then by the majority of society. If you stick to the facts. Stein found out and kicked his arse out of the club before showing the type of man he is/was by helping carrying stretchers and doing all he could during the Ibrox disaster I agree with you there. It could be that the families were too ashamed about the matter. Sadly it is how things were in that era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy500 463 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Yes, He was. He had a tatoo of King Billy on his arm I'm sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ootyernut 0 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 He was disowned by some of his family when he signed for Celtic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Jump the dyke, gambling, womanizing fat bassa but a great manager. Probably the best Scotland has produced. His involvement in the cover up is well documented and there's no justifying it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youllneverwinaway 0 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Jump the dyke, gambling, womanizing fat bassa but a great manager. Probably the best Scotland has produced. His involvement in the cover up is well documented and there's no justifying it. Theres no justifying in him kicking Torbett out ? Baffling. As for best manager, think Fergie has now taken the reins on that one to be honest though Jock is up there Poignant picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Jump the dyke, gambling, womanizing fat bassa but a great manager. Probably the best Scotland has produced. His involvement in the cover up is well documented and there's no justifying it. Theres no justifying in him kicking Torbett out ? Baffling. As for best manager, think Fergie has now taken the reins on that one to be honest though Jock is up there Poignant picture. Only for him to return and inflict more misery? No As for him aiding victims in the disaster, I admire him for it - shame the support of the club he was so desperate to protect aren't as respectful. I don't believe he was a monster, but his actions that day doesn't in any way remove the wrongs in the cover up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youllneverwinaway 0 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Only for him to return and inflict more misery? No As for him aiding victims in the disaster, I admire him for it - shame the support of the club he was so desperate to protect aren't as respectful. I don't believe he was a monster, but his actions that day doesn't in any way remove the wrongs in the cover up. You cannot say with any certainty that Stein didnt contact the police and as I and others have said, back in those days, this type of behaviour was covered up all the time by families due to the "embarrasment". The only thing you and I know factually about this whole incident in relation to Jock Stein is that he WAS THE ONE who took the action. Its Timmy who normally struggles with the concept of Facts. We should keep that way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Only for him to return and inflict more misery? No As for him aiding victims in the disaster, I admire him for it - shame the support of the club he was so desperate to protect aren't as respectful. I don't believe he was a monster, but his actions that day doesn't in any way remove the wrongs in the cover up. You cannot say with any certainty that Stein didnt contact the police and as I and others have said, back in those days, this type of behaviour was covered up all the time by families due to the "embarrasment". The only thing you and I know factually about this whole incident in relation to Jock Stein is that he WAS THE ONE who took the action. Its Timmy who normally struggles with the concept of Facts. We should keep that way His exact words to Birt were "keep the name of Celtic clean" I'm fairly certain they contacted no body. In fact if they had the ex board would have said so in a court of law. P.S. Telling me to stick to FACTS while you dream up scenarios where BJK was in the right despite no evidence is laughable. Prove to me where the families asked him not to go to the authorities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUDGIE52 9 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Jock Stein WAS a Rangers fan up until he signed for them as a player in the 50s,I know this because I watched a programme about him once.Also it greatly upset him that his best friend throughout his childhood never forgave him for signing for them,and his pal never spoke to him again,which left Stein bitter towards the Gers. As for the Torbett carry-on,Stein should,ve shopped him to the cops theres no excuse for not any MAN no matter his position in life,should not have turned a blind eye to that type of abuse of kids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youllneverwinaway 0 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 His exact words to Birt were "keep the name of Celtic clean" I'm fairly certain they contacted no body. In fact if they had the ex board would have said so in a court of law. P.S. Telling me to stick to FACTS while you dream up scenarios where BJK was in the right despite no evidence is laughable. Prove to me where the families asked him not to go to the authorities. I cant prove it so like everything else, i dont make unfounded accusations or assumptions, i work with the facts and as you have admitted, the only thing we know FOR CERTAIN is that Stein kicked him out. That has been proven or entered as evidence in a court of law. The families had their chance to go to the Police and obviously chose not to, otherwise action would have been taken. This alone proves the theory of the attitude of "shame" that was associated with abuse in the "old" days. There is also many a book with similar type stories where families covered things up. Sandra Browns and Martine McCutcheons mothers autobiographies are good examples of that eras attitude to child abuse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 His exact words to Birt were "keep the name of Celtic clean" I'm fairly certain they contacted no body. In fact if they had the ex board would have said so in a court of law. P.S. Telling me to stick to FACTS while you dream up scenarios where BJK was in the right despite no evidence is laughable. Prove to me where the families asked him not to go to the authorities. I cant prove it so like everything else, i dont make unfounded accusations or assumptions, i work with the facts and as you have admitted, the only thing we know FOR CERTAIN is that Stein kicked him out. That has been proven or entered as evidence in a court of law. The families had their chance to go to the Police and obviously chose not to, otherwise action would have been taken. This alone proves the theory of the attitude of "shame" that was associated with abuse in the "old" days. There is also many a book with similar type stories where families covered things up. Sandra Browns and Martine McCutcheons mothers autobiographies are good examples of that eras attitude to child abuse Who It was also stated in a court of law that Stein insisted that the good name of Celtic must remain clean. If that isn't a cover up I don't know what is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelle1880 225 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Fact Torbett abused young boys at Celtic boys club. Fact as soon as Stein found out, Torbet was sent packing. Question. Why was Torbett allowed to continue with his life uninterrupted for thirty years which has led to him opening and maintaining a successful business in that time. Answer. The board of Celtic FC covered up the fact that Torbett was a child molestor to "keep the good name of Celtic", as for Stein, he knew and did nothing about it, merely doing as he was told. This only came to light because Tommy Burns wanted to get Torbett back, however Fergus McCann had found out the truth and the Police were brought in to investigate the matter. Tommy Burns I believe had no knowledge of this matter until Fergus told him. See you were doing well there with your FACTS but ran out of steam as soon as you moved onto hearsay stuff. The law and society in general during the 60's and 70's was completely different from what it is now. It wouldnt have been Steins responsibility to go to the police as it would be nowadays and it is entirely possible that the abused boys families didnt want to bring "shame" on themselves by taking this further with the police. That is how these things were viewed back then by the majority of society. If you stick to the facts. Stein found out and kicked his arse out of the club before showing the type of man he is/was by helping carrying stretchers and doing all he could during the Ibrox disaster Hearsay ? Ask Alan Brazil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youllneverwinaway 0 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 His exact words to Birt were "keep the name of Celtic clean" I'm fairly certain they contacted no body. In fact if they had the ex board would have said so in a court of law. P.S. Telling me to stick to FACTS while you dream up scenarios where BJK was in the right despite no evidence is laughable. Prove to me where the families asked him not to go to the authorities. I cant prove it so like everything else, i dont make unfounded accusations or assumptions, i work with the facts and as you have admitted, the only thing we know FOR CERTAIN is that Stein kicked him out. That has been proven or entered as evidence in a court of law. The families had their chance to go to the Police and obviously chose not to, otherwise action would have been taken. This alone proves the theory of the attitude of "shame" that was associated with abuse in the "old" days. There is also many a book with similar type stories where families covered things up. Sandra Browns and Martine McCutcheons mothers autobiographies are good examples of that eras attitude to child abuse Who It was also stated in a court of law that Stein insisted that the good name of Celtic must remain clean. If that isn't a cover up I don't know what is. Eh.....you are aware that Birt came into Celtic after Torbett had been kicked out and was not party to any of what went on. 1996 "The finger of suspicion was pointed at Torbett as long ago as the early 1970s. There were whispers that he molested 13 and 14-year-old players in his care. But the victims were too ashamed to admit they had been violated by someone they believed in, so they suffered in silence. The Celtic board were aware of the rumours about Torbett, who was general manager of the boys' club. But only one man took him on. Jock Stein, who saw the youngsters as the lifeblood of the club, gave him his marching orders.The big man brought in business-man Hugh Birt as boys' club chairman, and Torbett went back to building his store empire. But after Stein's death, the pervert wheedled his way back in as fundraiser. Again, complaints were made that boys were being taken away for weekends and sexually abused. But, when Birt raised the matter 10 years ago, he was forced to resign. He said at the time: "It appears the Celtic board want to look in the other direction in the hope the trouble will go away."Birt had been told by anxious parents that their sons were being taken out socially when no games were involved. There were also fears that Torbett was taking boys to non-existent weekend tournaments. " I have also read the article where Birt says that Stein told him to keep the name of Celtic clean, but i read that as what he would be told going into a new job and nothing to with covering anything up, especially when you consider he knew nothing about it when taking the job on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,286 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 dont know whether he was a rangers fan but those pics when he was out helping the dying at ibrox means he has my respect and what happened at parkhead with the other incidents well i dont know all the facts so probably best not commenting on it Spot on mate re Ibrox Disaster. As for the Parkhead thing. He knew all right. In fact, he was the ONE person who actually done anything about it at Celtic Park. This is an interesting point actually, we draw attention to Stein knowning while all the time letting those in power at septic park back then get away scott free Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,286 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Jump the dyke, gambling, womanizing fat bassa but a great manager. Probably the best Scotland has produced. His involvement in the cover up is well documented and there's no justifying it. Theres no justifying in him kicking Torbett out ? Baffling. As for best manager, think Fergie has now taken the reins on that one to be honest though Jock is up there Poignant picture. Only for him to return and inflict more misery? No As for him aiding victims in the disaster, I admire him for it - shame the support of the club he was so desperate to protect aren't as respectful. I don't believe he was a monster, but his actions that day doesn't in any way remove the wrongs in the cover up. TBH most of those who sing BJK wouldn't have known about this and as I understand it the song only appeared many years later when septic tried to get him a posthumous knighthood (which of course was for their glory not his) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoltonLoyal 2 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 It's all well and good saying Stein kicked him out of the club, but that doesn't excuse him the fact that from a MORAL standpoint Stein should have informed the authorities. How can the sytematic sexual abuse of children go unreported to 'keep the name of Celtic clean' Child abuse in itself stained that club permanently and irrevocably. Stein had a duty of care and a moral responsibility to these children to bring Torbetts actions to light - he didn't and he will always be remembered as the man who didn't. Maybe he possessed enough morality and humanity to help the Ibrox victims, but not enough of those qualities to help victims of sexual abuse by a serial paedophile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 It is because of how he reacted during the Ibrox disaster, his great record as a club and national manager and the way his life ended on the touchline while managing Scotland that makes me CRINGE at the whole BJK thing. He deserves better that that, but some feel that winding 'them' up is more fun than showing respect for one of Scottish football's greats! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddrock 107 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I recall on here just over a week ago some were chastised for mentioning Tommy Burns and how they respected him the main comment being we have more than enough bears to remember so despite his deeds at the disaster or what he did or didnt know with regard to Torbett whay are we content to remember here ? Just asking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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