Jock stein was a Rangers fan ?

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I recall on here just over a week ago some were chastised for mentioning Tommy Burns and how they respected him

the main comment being we have more than enough bears to remember

so despite his deeds at the disaster or what he did or didnt know with regard to Torbett

whay are we content to remember here ?

Just asking

an

I dont know if this was aimed at me after my last post but I will reply with my 2p worth.

Yes, we have our own to remember, but we do not live in a vacumn and there should be no shame or stigma in remembering and respecting others, just because they are not Rangers people. If you take the view that you can only show respect and reverence based on whether someone is associated with Rangers or not then you live in a very sad, narrow minded and blinkered world.

[royalbluebell 38]

I think it was well documented on here what we thought of him by the long thread of respect being paid at the time of his death.

I was one who agreed it was time to move that particular thread from the Den.

[WVB 2,560]

Who gives a flying fuck what he (Jock Stein) was? Not me.

He managed the sporting wing of sinn fein & refused to report paedophilia to the police in order to protect the name of ra sellik.

That is what he was. Dont try & tarnish our club with his sullied reputation.

[BoltonLoyal 2]

I think it depends on your viewpoint, if you use the BJK thing to wind them up then fair enough, some would argue that you have no genuine stance from which to come from.

However if you genuinely can't get your head round the fact that kids suffered so as to protect the 'good name' of a football club, i'd say you had every right to disregard Stein's 'humanitarian' efforts re the Ibrox disaster.

If a rapist helped an old lady across the road, does that excuse the fact he raped someone?

[WVB 2,560]

If a rapist helped an old lady across the road, does that excuse the fact he raped someone?

Excellent analogy.

[parkheadbear 0]

Can some get that picture off this forum? Youllneverwinaway seems to want to do the taigs work for them.

Jock Stein knew, that you accept but he never told anyone and that in my eyes will tar his name for ever. Regardless of what soceity it was doesn't mean it is right. Torbett was allowed to return to the scum after Steins death and continue abusing kids when it could have been stopped.

[reddrock 107]

I recall on here just over a week ago some were chastised for mentioning Tommy Burns and how they respected him

the main comment being we have more than enough bears to remember

so despite his deeds at the disaster or what he did or didnt know with regard to Torbett

whay are we content to remember here ?

Just asking

an

I dont know if this was aimed at me after my last post but I will reply with my 2p worth.

Yes, we have our own to remember, but we do not live in a vacumn and there should be no shame or stigma in remembering and respecting others, just because they are not Rangers people. If you take the view that you can only show respect and reverence based on whether someone is associated with Rangers or not then you live in a very sad, narrow minded and blinkered world.

Just to clarify wasnot aimed at anyone if you choose to read what I ASKED you will see it was an in general statement

[Gaffbear 4,096]

I have no problem with Jock Stein,i personally believe he knew something but was halted in doing something by Celtic's board.......but why should we rememeber him..

Where are the Davie Cooper threads

The Bobby McKean threads

Jock Wallace

Wullie Waddell

Jim Baxter???????????????

All true Rangers men who would never have went to the other side and who would have cut some balls off had that Torbett episode happened at Ibrox

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

Just to clarify for all those who KEEP SAYING..... "He done nothing"

YOU DONT KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

For all we know, the authorities could have been contacted by Stein. If any of your kids got abused, would you think it was their bosses duty to contact the police or yours. Step back, count to ten and think about it for a second. The parents CLEARLY decided they wanted no further action in this, probably due to the "SHAME" it would bring on them.

That is my point in all of this.

We DO know that "CELTIC DONE NOTHING" because years later AFTER STEIN WAS DEAD they sacked someone who tried to get rid of Torbett by bringing more knowledge to the table

CELTIC FC ARE THE REAL TARGET for this, not Jock Stein.

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

I have no problem with Jock Stein,i personally believe he knew something but was halted in doing something by Celtic's board.......but why should we rememeber him..

Where are the Davie Cooper threads

The Bobby McKean threads

Jock Wallace

Wullie Waddell

Jim Baxter???????????????

All true Rangers men who would never have went to the other side and who would have cut some balls off had that Torbett episode happened at Ibrox

I dont think anyone is asking people to remember him. The OP was about him being a Rangers fan and the thread has developed. Thats all.

Why not start a thread on the above players and we can all contribute. I have a couple of good stories(well to me they are) about Coops and i would happily contribute.

[minstral 5,375]

this came from a book about the slime bag stein.

MacPherson claims in the book that beating Rangers became, for Stein, 'That inner drive which propelled him through his professional life as a manager. The core of it was his attitude to Rangers. It is my view that it supplied a basic drive to everything he did in football. It was that element of his roots that he converted into a crusade to weaken Rangers and humiliate them whenever he could. Harsh though it may be to those who wish to paint a more benign picture, from my own observations it struck me that you could barely avoid using the word 'hate' when it came to making a judgement about how Jock Stein regarded Rangers. I often heard him talking about that club with undisguised distaste.'

[parkheadbear 0]

Just to clarify for all those who KEEP SAYING..... "He done nothing"

YOU DONT KNOW THIS FOR A FACT.

For all we know, the authorities could have been contacted by Stein. If any of your kids got abused, would you think it was their bosses duty to contact the police or yours. Step back, count to ten and think about it for a second. The parents CLEARLY decided they wanted no further action in this, probably due to the "SHAME" it would bring on them.

That is my point in all of this.

We DO know that "CELTIC DONE NOTHING" because years later AFTER STEIN WAS DEAD they sacked someone who tried to get rid of Torbett by bringing more knowledge to the table

CELTIC FC ARE THE REAL TARGET for this, not Jock Stein.

You seem to tell others not to say things on without Facts when you are clearly doing the same.

The parents CLEARLY decided they wanted no further action in this, probably due to the "SHAME" it would bring on them.

How do you know this was the case?

JOCK Stein and the Celtic board covered up allegations made against Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett, it was claimed yesterday. Torbett, who is now accused of abusing three boys while he was at the club, was literally kicked out of Parkhead by Stein, a court heard. But when the claims subsequently surfaced, Celtic manager Stein and the directors were anxious to keep the image of the club clean and nothing more was done about them. The claim was made by former Celtic Boys' Club chairman Hugh Birt, 61, who said he felt "fabulous" when the Daily Record broke a story about Torbett two years ago. Mr Birt told Glasgow Sheriff Court that when he first heard about the allegations he didn't have enough evidence to go to the police. Asked how he now felt about giving evidence against Torbett, he replied: "It's a tremendous relief for me because I have been carrying it about for 25 years." He said he was asked to be chairman when Torbett was "put out" of the Boys' Club. Asked who got rid of him, Mr Birt said: "According to Mr Stein, he literally put his foot up his backside and kicked him out. It was all covered up by Celtic as to why." He admitted that he had a good relationship with Torbett, who returned to the Boys' Club as a fund-raiser several years later. Mr Birt said: "There was a lot of hearsay and it wasn't until Jim came back that I got involved because things started up again." He told how he took the allegations against Torbett to the Celtic board and Stein and even told the then vice-chairman, Kevin Kelly, about them at a meeting in his car. He said: "Although there were people who spoke to me I couldn't go to the police without actual proof of the allegations. When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times."

Now for me this is more evidence than what you have managed to provide. Maybe you should go and post on TAL Fanzine or Taigminded mate as they like to post the pics of Stein helping dying Bears or saying it was a different era bull to help portray them as the good guys.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I have no problem with Jock Stein,i personally believe he knew something but was halted in doing something by Celtic's board.......but why should we rememeber him..

Where are the Davie Cooper threads

The Bobby McKean threads

Jock Wallace

Wullie Waddell

Jim Baxter???????????????

All true Rangers men who would never have went to the other side and who would have cut some balls off had that Torbett episode happened at Ibrox

I dont think anyone is asking people to remember him. The OP was about him being a Rangers fan and the thread has developed. Thats all.

Why not start a thread on the above players and we can all contribute. I have a couple of good stories(well to me they are) about Coops and i would happily contribute.

I agree with Gaff to be honest, and, also think that threads like this shouldnt be in the BD, its not about Rangers, and has as much merit as a thread about any other tim. Should be a tim free zone this

[1690 Posts 71]

If the parents had wanted the police involved they would have invloved them. End of. As has been said we don't know if Stein was in contact with family members and based his decision on their wishes or not but ultimately, the families refused to pursue this at the time as can be seen by no police intervention.

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

You seem to tell others not to say things on without Facts when you are clearly doing the same.

The parents CLEARLY decided they wanted no further action in this, probably due to the "SHAME" it would bring on them.

How do you know this was the case?

JOCK Stein and the Celtic board covered up allegations made against Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett, it was claimed yesterday. Torbett, who is now accused of abusing three boys while he was at the club, was literally kicked out of Parkhead by Stein, a court heard. But when the claims subsequently surfaced, Celtic manager Stein and the directors were anxious to keep the image of the club clean and nothing more was done about them. The claim was made by former Celtic Boys' Club chairman Hugh Birt, 61, who said he felt "fabulous" when the Daily Record broke a story about Torbett two years ago. Mr Birt told Glasgow Sheriff Court that when he first heard about the allegations he didn't have enough evidence to go to the police. Asked how he now felt about giving evidence against Torbett, he replied: "It's a tremendous relief for me because I have been carrying it about for 25 years." He said he was asked to be chairman when Torbett was "put out" of the Boys' Club. Asked who got rid of him, Mr Birt said: "According to Mr Stein, he literally put his foot up his backside and kicked him out. It was all covered up by Celtic as to why." He admitted that he had a good relationship with Torbett, who returned to the Boys' Club as a fund-raiser several years later. Mr Birt said: "There was a lot of hearsay and it wasn't until Jim came back that I got involved because things started up again." He told how he took the allegations against Torbett to the Celtic board and Stein and even told the then vice-chairman, Kevin Kelly, about them at a meeting in his car. He said: "Although there were people who spoke to me I couldn't go to the police without actual proof of the allegations. When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times."

Now for me this is more evidence than what you have managed to provide. Maybe you should go and post on TAL Fanzine or Taigminded mate as they like to post the pics of Stein helping dying Bears or saying it was a different era bull to help portray them as the good guys.

If the parents wanted to take further action, there is nothing that would have stopped them. If your kid was abused, would you wait on his football manager to go to the police or would you do it yourself? Ask yourself what stopped the parents from going to the authorities? If you believe it was Stein, do you not think for one second that the players who spilled the beans would have brought this up ?

I have already acknowledged the article above. Birt came in AFTER Torbett was kicked out. He was not involved in the original goings on but it was him who was sacked after Stein died and Torbett wormed his way back in. I know you will never see this as clearly the blinkers are no, but if you ran a business and you caught your manager bad mouthing customers and stealing, is it beyond reason that when the next guy comes in you say to him, "Look i want you to keep this business clean. Nae stealing and Nae bad mouthing customers"

I just cant for the life of me work out why, when we have evidence to nail Celtic to the floor on this and sing all we want about them as a club and board, that we choose a guy who was centre to doing something about it and dealing with the problem and on whom, not one player or their family, as far as im aware have had anything bad to say about his role in this event. We seem to love scoring own goals at Rangers.

As for your snidey end comment about TAL..... you can feck right off

[minstral 5,375]

how can you defend a man who should have went to the police. plus why are we even giving a man who hated our club the time of day.

[parkheadbear 0]

You seem to tell others not to say things on without Facts when you are clearly doing the same.

The parents CLEARLY decided they wanted no further action in this, probably due to the "SHAME" it would bring on them.

How do you know this was the case?

JOCK Stein and the Celtic board covered up allegations made against Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett, it was claimed yesterday. Torbett, who is now accused of abusing three boys while he was at the club, was literally kicked out of Parkhead by Stein, a court heard. But when the claims subsequently surfaced, Celtic manager Stein and the directors were anxious to keep the image of the club clean and nothing more was done about them. The claim was made by former Celtic Boys' Club chairman Hugh Birt, 61, who said he felt "fabulous" when the Daily Record broke a story about Torbett two years ago. Mr Birt told Glasgow Sheriff Court that when he first heard about the allegations he didn't have enough evidence to go to the police. Asked how he now felt about giving evidence against Torbett, he replied: "It's a tremendous relief for me because I have been carrying it about for 25 years." He said he was asked to be chairman when Torbett was "put out" of the Boys' Club. Asked who got rid of him, Mr Birt said: "According to Mr Stein, he literally put his foot up his backside and kicked him out. It was all covered up by Celtic as to why." He admitted that he had a good relationship with Torbett, who returned to the Boys' Club as a fund-raiser several years later. Mr Birt said: "There was a lot of hearsay and it wasn't until Jim came back that I got involved because things started up again." He told how he took the allegations against Torbett to the Celtic board and Stein and even told the then vice-chairman, Kevin Kelly, about them at a meeting in his car. He said: "Although there were people who spoke to me I couldn't go to the police without actual proof of the allegations. When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times."

Now for me this is more evidence than what you have managed to provide. Maybe you should go and post on TAL Fanzine or Taigminded mate as they like to post the pics of Stein helping dying Bears or saying it was a different era bull to help portray them as the good guys.

If the parents wanted to take further action, there is nothing that would have stopped them. If your kid was abused, would you wait on his football manager to go to the police or would you do it yourself? Ask yourself what stopped the parents from going to the authorities? If you believe it was Stein, do you not think for one second that the players who spilled the beans would have brought this up ?

I have already acknowledged the article above. Birt came in AFTER Torbett was kicked out. He was not involved in the original goings on but it was him who was sacked after Stein died and Torbett wormed his way back in. I know you will never see this as clearly the blinkers are no, but if you ran a business and you caught your manager bad mouthing customers and stealing, is it beyond reason that when the next guy comes in you say to him, "Look i want you to keep this business clean. Nae stealing and Nae bad mouthing customers"

I just cant for the life of me work out why, when we have evidence to nail Celtic to the floor on this and sing all we want about them as a club and board, that we choose a guy who was centre to doing something about it and dealing with the problem and on whom, not one player or their family, as far as im aware have had anything bad to say about his role in this event. We seem to love scoring own goals at Rangers.

As for your snidey end comment about TAL..... you can feck right off

I agree that Celtic should be taken to task on it but that doesn't mean we should let them glorify a man whom in eyes shouldn't be for what he knew and never done. I would put my life on that this scandal goes a lot higher than Celtic FC mate right up to the RC hierarchy in Scotland.

[papaguy51 912]

I agree with Gaff to be honest, and, also think that threads like this shouldnt be in the BD, its not about Rangers, and has as much merit as a thread about any other tim. Should be a tim free zone this

(tu)

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

how can you defend a man who should have went to the police. plus why are we even giving a man who hated our club the time of day.

Because we dont know what happened to be frank and honest.

He may have went to the police and the parents told the police they didnt want it to go further.

He may have went to the parents and they said they wanted no action.

He may have been told by the Board that they were dealing with it.

All are valid options but some have just decided "fuk it, he is guilty without trial"

Society in general and the law was different in the 60's and 70's. No-one seems to be able to answer "Why did the parents not go to the police?"

I would prefer if we targetted Celtic FC whom we know for definite are culpable in this and not Stein.

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

I agree with Gaff to be honest, and, also think that threads like this shouldnt be in the BD, its not about Rangers, and has as much merit as a thread about any other tim. Should be a tim free zone this

(tu)

Dont disagree with that. Should be moved to General

[dbyst 570]

i thought this was common knowledge

[scottylad72 19]

Good valid points indeed, however the flaws for the defense of it because it was in the sixties does not stick with me at all. Torbett has been allowed to live his life without recrimination, he has ran a successful business in the 30 years since, and has profited from the very club that threw him out.

The fact that they were going to even let him back into the club, tells me how poorly they dealt with the situation. Don't get me wrong, I admired Jock Stein for what he done, more so with Scotland and remember the night he died when coops scored that penalty. I will remember it always. However finding out about that terrible abuse stuff has made me see things in a different light.

Jock Stein was hailed as a man of great stature within Scotland but how great can you be if you let a man like that get away scot free. He was wrong, that club was wrong and the parents were wrong.

Take this into account, approximately 100,000 roman catholic priests have been/are being investigated for child abuse allegation all over the world. Cardinal Ratzinger was once in charge of those type of investigations within the Vatican hierarchy. He never found one priest guilty of such charges.

The point is that cover-ups seem to be part and parcel of the Catholic faith, in turn it seeps into their followers and allows then to turn a blind eye when it suits them most.

don't ask me were that stat comes from as I cant find the damn info anymore myself.

[scottylad72 19]

Deliver Us From Evil on DVD (2006)

Starring: Thomas Doyle | Case Degroot | Frank Keating | Maria Jyono | Jane Degroot

Director: Amy Berg

Studio: LIONSGATE

Certificate: 15

Collections: New releases

Genres: Documentary

Languages: English

Released: 10/03/2008

Look this documentary out, this started me off. You won't believe how this ended up.

[thedarvelmarvel 796]

is this question was stein a gers fan or about some perv? there is a story about stein when he played for timmy. after a gers beating sean fallon said it wouldnt be the same if there were less prods in the side ,the story goes it took 4 people to drag stein off fallon. hugh mcilvenny told this one on tele.

[minstral 5,375]

is this question was stein a gers fan or about some perv? there is a story about stein when he played for timmy. after a gers beating sean fallon said it wouldnt be the same if there were less prods in the side ,the story goes it took 4 people to drag stein off fallon. hugh mcilvenny told this one on tele.

he hated us.