Joe Calzaghe won’t join the true greats

[Boab 73]

Hugh McIlvanney

How can we do suitable honour to the wonderful boxing career of Joe Calzaghe while paying a decent minimum of respect to that battered old punchbag historical perspective? We could start by admitting that what was feverishly hailed as a triumph over a legend in Madison Square Garden last weekend looked rather more like the vandalising of a relic.

Roy Jones Jr went to the ring in New York with his once-beautiful talent blatantly burnt out and, having made a fleeting attempt to throw the ashes in Calzaghe’s eyes with a knockdown after two minutes, he subsided so rapidly and resignedly into acceptance of his terminal decline that he lost every one of the remaining 11 rounds on all three judges’ scorecards. Yet much of the media reaction has encouraged us to recognise that the so-called contest would represent a magnificent valediction if Calzaghe’s talk of retiring now with a splendidly unblemished record of 46 straight victories should prove, in welcome violation of fight trade tradition, to be reliable. No less a figure than the former world featherweight champion Barry McGuigan responded to Calzaghe’s display with unmitigated awe: “He was fabulous . . . My God, sublime — absolutely sublime.” Certainly Calzaghe did an impressive job of work, especially in so swiftly rendering meaningless his early embarrassment, but the willingness to suggest he’d had to reach dizzying heights of virtuosity to deal with the scant, sad remnants of Jones’s abilities left no doubt that perspective was heading for the intensive care unit.

The hero of the hour wasn’t averse to giving it an extra nudge in that direction. When the recently crowned IBF and IBO light-heavyweight champion Chad Dawson was mentioned as a possible provider of a final challenge, Calzaghe dismissed him as somebody who had won his titles last month by beating an aged, shot fighter in Antonio Tarver. That was true but if Tarver, who turns 40 this week, is undeniably decrepit, what does that make the barely-two-months-younger Jones, on whom he inflicted two severe hammerings (one a second-round stoppage) in 2004 and 2005? Those defeats, along with the brutal ninth-round knockout at the hands of Glen Johnson that occurred between them, effectively finished Jones as a top-rank fighter.

Even the brief sensation of finding himself the ghost with a hammer in his hand at the Garden was never likely to lift him above the dispiriting awareness that he was incurably devoid of the energy and drive to supply coherent, sustained opposition. Calzaghe’s recovery was quicker than it had been after his habit of being more impulsive than alert at the start of fights caused him to be similarly floored by Bernard Hopkins for a first-round count in Las Vegas seven months ago. But in both cases winning comprehensively was a smooth, assured process, as well it might have been, given that his only two assignments in America have confronted him with men whose aggregate age is 82. The years have piled up for him too (he will be 37 in March) but his undamaged looks and physical freshness testify to the benefits of having spared himself the frequent commitment to wars that has been the norm for Jones, Hopkins and their kind in the US.

His brilliant southpaw skills, remarkable fitness and vigour, iron chin and unsubduable heart have always been allied to business priorities, which is as it should be in sport’s least forgiving commercial environment. Nobody could dream of questioning his right to the careful matchmaking that has helped him to achieve the extraordinary distinction of retaining possession of a world title at super-middleweight for 10 years or his insistence on campaigning almost exclusively in Britain (two unhazardous sorties to the Continent were the isolated exceptions prior to this year’s belated expedition to America). But such circumspection cannot be ignored when there is a clamour to persuade us that, with his longevity as a champion and his 46-and-oh record, he must be rated the supreme British boxer since the second world war.

Statistics mean a lot but they can never tell the whole story. Having lost fights and titles doesn’t affect the standing of Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard. Fighters should ultimately be judged by the company they have kept inside the ropes, by the level of threat they have overcome, and such assessments sometimes involve taking account of the boldness with which they have carried their banner in the most hostile places. Much has been made of the fact that nine of Calzaghe’s victims were either holding or had held world titles when he met them and that is a formidable credential. But it is partly explained by the rampant proliferation of championships in boxing and the truth is that few of the men he has beaten in their prime will justify more than tiny footnotes in ring history.

There can be no objection to the shrewd caution that has permeated his largely stay-at-home career but it has relevance when the debate about Britain’s best post-war boxer embraces, say, the contrasting experience of Ken Buchanan. After he became world lightweight champion in 1970 by defeating the Panamanian Ismael Laguna in San Juan, Puerto Rico, Buchanan’s next 22 fights took him six times to New York, four times to Copenhagen, twice to Cagliari, and once each to Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Miami Beach, Toronto, Paris and Tokyo — leaving just four engagements in this country. He suffered two defeats on his global travels, both in world title matches, one a violently controversial loss to the rising Roberto Duran and the other a close split decision in Japan. Along the way, there was a moment in a Garden elevator when an excited New Yorker told me Buchanan was the sweetest fighter he had seen since Sugar Ray Robinson. No doubt the man was getting carried away but I am convinced he was talking about the best Britain has produced in the past seven decades.

Interesting article, most things are worth reading though from Hugh McIlvanney.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/col...amp;attr=796995

[BazzaB 8]

...?

Edit: Never mind, I opened the thread for a minute there and it was completely blank.

[marcus 0]

He isn't a great champion like say Hearns, Duran or Hagler because he hasn't beaten great champions.

But an undefeated record (assuming her retires ubdefeated) puts him above the Watts, Minters, Contehs etc.

Worthy of our respect, but not worship.

[J-Maestro 11,078]

Pish article, what's this rubbish about Dawson, the guy can't draw and hasn't beat anyone of note. The only person Calzaghe would have fought afterwards would have been Pavlik but he got beat of Hopkins(I guess Pavlik is shite too then from that article) Calzaghe doesn't need to fight anyone, if he fights Dawson there will just be another up and comer to fight after him and Calzaghe will be get critisised for not fighting them too.

[KERRZO 5]

Pish article, what's this rubbish about Dawson, the guy can't draw and hasn't beat anyone of note. The only person Calzaghe would have fought afterwards would have been Pavlik but he got beat of Hopkins(I guess Pavlik is shite too then from that article) Calzaghe doesn't need to fight anyone, if he fights Dawson there will just be another up and comer to fight after him and Calzaghe will be get critisised for not fighting them too.

Spot on m8, people will always look for Calzaghe to go and go until he gets beat to just say I told you so!!! On another note, some of the boxing journalists out there at the moment are terrible, more so in the tabloids, most aint got a clue. Steve Bunce is the main man though, he always talks sense and see things from the public's perspective as well as that of the boxers and his knowledge is second to none!!!

[CF5LOYAL 0]

Pish article, what's this rubbish about Dawson, the guy can't draw and hasn't beat anyone of note. The only person Calzaghe would have fought afterwards would have been Pavlik but he got beat of Hopkins(I guess Pavlik is shite too then from that article) Calzaghe doesn't need to fight anyone, if he fights Dawson there will just be another up and comer to fight after him and Calzaghe will be get critisised for not fighting them too.

Spot on m8, people will always look for Calzaghe to go and go until he gets beat to just say I told you so!!! On another note, some of the boxing journalists out there at the moment are terrible, more so in the tabloids, most aint got a clue. Steve Bunce is the main man though, he always talks sense and see things from the public's perspective as well as that of the boxers and his knowledge is second to none!!!

Agree, I never used to like Bunce but the more you listen to him the more you respect his opinion. He spend a lot of his spare time travelling the world learning as much as he can about different camps and trainers aswell. Also alot of the top boxers seem to respect him aswell.

How scary would this have been!! If B-Hop would have competely lost it he would have done some severe damage

[J-Maestro 11,078]

If they had a fight Hopkins might have hugged him to death.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Pish article, what's this rubbish about Dawson, the guy can't draw and hasn't beat anyone of note. The only person Calzaghe would have fought afterwards would have been Pavlik but he got beat of Hopkins(I guess Pavlik is shite too then from that article) Calzaghe doesn't need to fight anyone, if he fights Dawson there will just be another up and comer to fight after him and Calzaghe will be get critisised for not fighting them too.

Is it pish because it doesnt pretend Calzaghe is some kind of demi god? jones WAS finished prior to that fight, so, it meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. And, it also got McGuigan nailed on in it.

The guy is good, but, at the same time, has very few actual fights! Man, I could have that record if I handpicked my opponenets to make sure i beat them, as could you. Its a problem I have with all the fighters in that stable, its all about protecting their man and their record. I was stunned when Enzo actually fought Haye And, when he did, he was battered. When was the last time Calzaghe actually fought someone with even the outside chance of taking a win against him? I am not saying he is a paper champ, but, he isnt a great, just good.

[J-Maestro 11,078]

Kessler? Lacy? Who he both destroyed, I'm not saying he should be called a demi-god but this rubbish about why he's dodging Dawson is just what will happen time and time again, people keep acting like Calzaghe is some young guy he's old too. I'm more talking about this calling out Calzaghe cause he's dodging Dawson. There was only one fight that would have happened after Jones and that would have been Pavlik who got battered by Hopkins. Dawson is a nobody.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Hugh McIlvanney

How can we do suitable honour to the wonderful boxing career of Joe Calzaghe while paying a decent minimum of respect to that battered old punchbag historical perspective? We could start by admitting that what was feverishly hailed as a triumph over a legend in Madison Square Garden last weekend looked rather more like the vandalising of a relic.

Roy Jones Jr went to the ring in New York with his once-beautiful talent blatantly burnt out and, having made a fleeting attempt to throw the ashes in Calzaghe’s eyes with a knockdown after two minutes, he subsided so rapidly and resignedly into acceptance of his terminal decline that he lost every one of the remaining 11 rounds on all three judges’ scorecards. Yet much of the media reaction has encouraged us to recognise that the so-called contest would represent a magnificent valediction if Calzaghe’s talk of retiring now with a splendidly unblemished record of 46 straight victories should prove, in welcome violation of fight trade tradition, to be reliable. No less a figure than the former world featherweight champion Barry McGuigan responded to Calzaghe’s display with unmitigated awe: “He was fabulous . . . My God, sublime — absolutely sublime.” Certainly Calzaghe did an impressive job of work, especially in so swiftly rendering meaningless his early embarrassment, but the willingness to suggest he’d had to reach dizzying heights of virtuosity to deal with the scant, sad remnants of Jones’s abilities left no doubt that perspective was heading for the intensive care unit.

The hero of the hour wasn’t averse to giving it an extra nudge in that direction. When the recently crowned IBF and IBO light-heavyweight champion Chad Dawson was mentioned as a possible provider of a final challenge, Calzaghe dismissed him as somebody who had won his titles last month by beating an aged, shot fighter in Antonio Tarver. That was true but if Tarver, who turns 40 this week, is undeniably decrepit, what does that make the barely-two-months-younger Jones, on whom he inflicted two severe hammerings (one a second-round stoppage) in 2004 and 2005? Those defeats, along with the brutal ninth-round knockout at the hands of Glen Johnson that occurred between them, effectively finished Jones as a top-rank fighter.

Even the brief sensation of finding himself the ghost with a hammer in his hand at the Garden was never likely to lift him above the dispiriting awareness that he was incurably devoid of the energy and drive to supply coherent, sustained opposition. Calzaghe’s recovery was quicker than it had been after his habit of being more impulsive than alert at the start of fights caused him to be similarly floored by Bernard Hopkins for a first-round count in Las Vegas seven months ago. But in both cases winning comprehensively was a smooth, assured process, as well it might have been, given that his only two assignments in America have confronted him with men whose aggregate age is 82. The years have piled up for him too (he will be 37 in March) but his undamaged looks and physical freshness testify to the benefits of having spared himself the frequent commitment to wars that has been the norm for Jones, Hopkins and their kind in the US.

His brilliant southpaw skills, remarkable fitness and vigour, iron chin and unsubduable heart have always been allied to business priorities, which is as it should be in sport’s least forgiving commercial environment. Nobody could dream of questioning his right to the careful matchmaking that has helped him to achieve the extraordinary distinction of retaining possession of a world title at super-middleweight for 10 years or his insistence on campaigning almost exclusively in Britain (two unhazardous sorties to the Continent were the isolated exceptions prior to this year’s belated expedition to America). But such circumspection cannot be ignored when there is a clamour to persuade us that, with his longevity as a champion and his 46-and-oh record, he must be rated the supreme British boxer since the second world war.

Statistics mean a lot but they can never tell the whole story. Having lost fights and titles doesn’t affect the standing of Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard. Fighters should ultimately be judged by the company they have kept inside the ropes, by the level of threat they have overcome, and such assessments sometimes involve taking account of the boldness with which they have carried their banner in the most hostile places. Much has been made of the fact that nine of Calzaghe’s victims were either holding or had held world titles when he met them and that is a formidable credential. But it is partly explained by the rampant proliferation of championships in boxing and the truth is that few of the men he has beaten in their prime will justify more than tiny footnotes in ring history.

There can be no objection to the shrewd caution that has permeated his largely stay-at-home career but it has relevance when the debate about Britain’s best post-war boxer embraces, say, the contrasting experience of Ken Buchanan. After he became world lightweight champion in 1970 by defeating the Panamanian Ismael Laguna in San Juan, Puerto Rico, Buchanan’s next 22 fights took him six times to New York, four times to Copenhagen, twice to Cagliari, and once each to Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Miami Beach, Toronto, Paris and Tokyo — leaving just four engagements in this country. He suffered two defeats on his global travels, both in world title matches, one a violently controversial loss to the rising Roberto Duran and the other a close split decision in Japan. Along the way, there was a moment in a Garden elevator when an excited New Yorker told me Buchanan was the sweetest fighter he had seen since Sugar Ray Robinson. No doubt the man was getting carried away but I am convinced he was talking about the best Britain has produced in the past seven decades.

Interesting article, most things are worth reading though from Hugh McIlvanney.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/col...amp;attr=796995

Great article.

Spot on.

Cheers for posting Boab!

[outlaw69uk 123]

Kessler? Lacy? Who he both destroyed, I'm not saying he should be called a demi-god but this rubbish about why he's dodging Dawson is just what will happen time and time again, people keep acting like Calzaghe is some young guy he's old too. I'm more talking about this calling out Calzaghe cause he's dodging Dawson. There was only one fight that would have happened after Jones and that would have been Pavlik who got battered by Hopkins. Dawson is a nobody.

I agree with that, then again, Dawson (or his people) are probably tryingto make a name for themselves.

Ah, I forgot about Lacy. For me, I reckon he should have a few more names on his cv.

[J-Maestro 11,078]

Most big fighters won't fight brits though cause of the money issues.

[CF5LOYAL 0]

Kessler? Lacy? Who he both destroyed, I'm not saying he should be called a demi-god but this rubbish about why he's dodging Dawson is just what will happen time and time again, people keep acting like Calzaghe is some young guy he's old too. I'm more talking about this calling out Calzaghe cause he's dodging Dawson. There was only one fight that would have happened after Jones and that would have been Pavlik who got battered by Hopkins. Dawson is a nobody.

You've obviously not seen him then. Floyd Mayweather said before the Tarver fight that Dawson is the best p4p fighter in his opinion. He went out and totally destroyed Tarver, his speed and power was immense.

Calzaghe vs Dawson would be a cracker but as previous posts have said where does he stop? He fights Dawson then who? that Chinese guy, then Johnson?

He should bow out just now, a true great.

[vasily09 0]

Kessler? Lacy? Who he both destroyed, I'm not saying he should be called a demi-god but this rubbish about why he's dodging Dawson is just what will happen time and time again, people keep acting like Calzaghe is some young guy he's old too. I'm more talking about this calling out Calzaghe cause he's dodging Dawson. There was only one fight that would have happened after Jones and that would have been Pavlik who got battered by Hopkins. Dawson is a nobody.

You've obviously not seen him then. Floyd Mayweather said before the Tarver fight that Dawson is the best p4p fighter in his opinion. He went out and totally destroyed Tarver, his speed and power was immense.

Calzaghe vs Dawson would be a cracker but as previous posts have said where does he stop? He fights Dawson then who? that Chinese guy, then Johnson?

He should bow out just now, a true great.

I watched Dawson fight Glenn Johnson a few months ago, an aging over the hill fighter.

Dawson got the desision by the skin of his teeth and looked absolutely awful in doing so - he picked and chose when to turn it on but several times during the fight he took rounds off, hardly throwing a punch

IMO on that disoplay he is absolutely tailor-made for Calzaghe who would win by a UD - quite frankly guys - right now, Calzaghe is the master - I hope he has one more money fight at home and then calls it quits. maybe Hopkins again to prove all the doubters wrong who remain from the first fight

[J-Maestro 11,078]

Dawson is a nobody there is no draw in his fights, the only reason he is being mentioned is because he shot his mouth off.

[maverick1200 2,828]

Dawson is a nobody there is no draw in his fights, the only reason he is being mentioned is because he shot his mouth off.

After the fight the HBO presenter said to calzaghe the chad dawson was the only guy out there that he could fight

[vasily09 0]

Dawson is a nobody there is no draw in his fights, the only reason he is being mentioned is because he shot his mouth off.

After the fight the HBO presenter said to calzaghe the chad dawson was the only guy out there that he could fight

HBO said that ebcause they have Dawson under contract. They want the fight for the revenue it would generate them

Believe me, I have seen Dawson fight, he is not anywhere near Calzaghe - would be a mismatch of epic proportions

Btw, for the guy who posted earlier about how he classed Tarver - Tarver is now a joke, maybe even more of a joke than Roy Jones.

[CF5LOYAL 0]

Dawson is a nobody there is no draw in his fights, the only reason he is being mentioned is because he shot his mouth off.

After the fight the HBO presenter said to calzaghe the chad dawson was the only guy out there that he could fight

HBO said that ebcause they have Dawson under contract. They want the fight for the revenue it would generate them

Believe me, I have seen Dawson fight, he is not anywhere near Calzaghe - would be a mismatch of epic proportions

Btw, for the guy who posted earlier about how he classed Tarver - Tarver is now a joke, maybe even more of a joke than Roy Jones.

How is Tarver MORE of a joke than RJJ when he knocked him out in their last fight?

[J-Maestro 11,078]

Tarver has been done since he was in Rocky.

[vasily09 0]

Dawson is a nobody there is no draw in his fights, the only reason he is being mentioned is because he shot his mouth off.

After the fight the HBO presenter said to calzaghe the chad dawson was the only guy out there that he could fight

HBO said that ebcause they have Dawson under contract. They want the fight for the revenue it would generate them

Believe me, I have seen Dawson fight, he is not anywhere near Calzaghe - would be a mismatch of epic proportions

Btw, for the guy who posted earlier about how he classed Tarver - Tarver is now a joke, maybe even more of a joke than Roy Jones.

How is Tarver MORE of a joke than RJJ when he knocked him out in their last fight?

Tarver still has some power, but physically he is shot, cannot fight hard for 6 rounds, never mind 12 - someone like Calzaghe fighting him would be similar to the jones fight, after the first couple rounds he would be shot.

Jones at least has enough guts to keep going for 12 rounds - the point being that Dawson is making all this noise on the basis of 2 wins against shot fighters - but even in the 1st of those, he looked absolutely awful

[KERRZO 5]

Tarver has been shot since he put on the extra weight to film the rocky movie, much in the same way RJJ has been shot since he moved up to heavyweight to beat John Ruiz.

In relation to Dawson, vasily09 is spot on in the whole media circus surrounding Dawson being next in line for Joe. It is Max Kellerman's job to try and plug future fights and get fighters to call people out, thats how we got Calzaghe v Hopkins in the first place!!! Dawson is as far as Im aware has got a contract with HBO so it is thr job to promote him and place him in big fights which make them plenty of cash. Its all down to cash!!!

If Joe was to take one more fight it would have to be back in Cardiff as he is now undisputedly the man so anyone who wants him must come calling. Personally, I think he owes Glen Johnson a shot (he pulled out of 3 fights with him a few years back) and at Milennium Stadium it would be an easy farwell win for the fans as Johnson is also well past his best. Only problem with this fight is that it does not prove anything more to his doubters, they would say it just further pads his record.

[KERRZO 5]

Word is Dawson and Calzaghe are in talks!!!