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The £1,000 question and TBK's bid.....


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You are fucked like the rest of us shareholders.

Teflon Dave diluted our share values when he tried (and failed) with that £50m float some years ago - Whyte has effectively reduced the remaining value to fuck all and if we do go down the New-Co road then they're worth less than fuck all.

Nostalgia aint what it used to be. :sherlock:

It wasn't a share issue, it was a rights issue - which means only current shareholders can participate. It's worth understanding the difference as Shame FC continually try and use it against us.

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By the time this option comes round of a £1000 a head, a lot of fans will be tapped out with all the ideas that are running just to keep the club a float. The idea of £1000 a head is still a lot for some people, so having it with graduated from a starting point of £100 would be more affordable with £1000 the preferred amount.

If the money is being underwritten by TBK then I would say a monthly payment scheme would be the best option for the fans, could have it with a lump sum up front of say £200 and 8 monthly payments of £100 for example.

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It wasn't a share issue, it was a rights issue - which means only current shareholders can participate. It's worth understanding the difference as Shame FC continually try and use it against us.

Of course you are correct (pedant :rolleyes: ) but I am pretty sure that I and the majority of my fellow Rangers shareholders told Teflon Dave where to stick his "rights issue" at the time.

He was sent packing.

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In a fan base of hundreds of thousands surely we can get 50,000 to invest in Rangers? I fully appreciate that not everyone can afford £1,000 but it must be possible to get people to buy shares in the Club in its current financial state. We can't just sit back and expect others to come along and save the Club on our behalf. We as fans must be prepared to contribute. I have acquired shares at three different times over the years and apart from nostalgic value, they are now worthless. That is a few grand down the drain. I am prepared to put in £1,000 for each of the three season tickets I have in my family. If we don't set the target at a minimum of £1,000 then many people will invest much less. It has to be a reasonable amount or it just won't work. How many were in Manchester, 125k, 150k, 175k 200k? If 25,000 put in £1,000 that is £25m. £1,000 is only £20 per week. It is also a one-off sum. We have to show our own commitment to the cause. Rangers is OUR Club.

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Our supporter organisations have really missed a massive opportunity to be in the driving seat, in negotiations between the various bidders and the Administrators.

In my opinion we should have made saving Rangers our first priority, the Saverangers and the RFFF are two tremendous initiatives, but they should have been linked from the outset and the Saverangers should have been activated from the outset.

We have been in administration for a few months now, time that should have been used go gather in the monies pledged too Saverangers, we may have been now in control of funds in there £millions, not forgetting donations to the RFFF also.

I know now Saverangers was only there to garner information to see how much money was raised for an share issue, but it should not have been named Saverangers if it had no intention of saving RANGERS NOW. We need it now to do what it says on the tin? not to pour money down a black hole but to buy our way to the table and to be in there fighting to save the club. MONEY TALKS.

We as a support could have went to the Admins and told them we are willing to back any consortium with our funds £millions if and only if that consortium are NOT intending to put Rangers into liquidation.

We could have got ourselves in on the ground level with an consortium and helped shape a new policy going forward with an old club with a glorious history.

I have donated again today to the RFFF fund, i don't care where my money goes as long as it's helping my club anyway Walter and co see fit.

We as a support need to flecks our financial muscles, even in these financial difficult times we are a sleeping giant. 'Aye Ready' to be called upon to help our club in it's hour of need.

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Of course you are correct (pedant :rolleyes: ) but I am pretty sure that I and the majority of my fellow Rangers shareholders told Teflon Dave where to stick his "rights issue" at the time.

He was sent packing.

And that ought to cause Mini-Murray to pause for thought. A crisis is seldom the best time for a share issue. The successful Celtic share issue came at a time when McCann had sorted the club's monetary problems out. There didn't appear to be too many options, or too many fans stepping up to the plate as the club imploded. McCann rescued the club, took a lot of shit as Rangers won everything in sight and then once the club was on a sound footing he sold out. The right time for a share issue is once the mess has been cleared up.

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Can someone clarify.

I'm reading in several threads regarding mini-Murray's BK's bid with his "big hitters" providing funding and their links with Ticketus (not one I fancy....but I'll move on), but included in these threads is the understanding/assumption that the wider fan-base will be able to dig deep and become part of the club with a £1,000 piece of the action.

Has anyone told mini-Murray & Co that there's a worldwide recession taking place, where energy (fuel, etc) costs are going through the roof, banks are being baled out by taxpayers and are lending fuck all to anyone for fear of losing it again and people are out of work in numbers not seen since the last depression?

No offence intended, but how much do TBK's think they'll raise from this hard-pressed Rangers-supporting source?

Personally, I've been ok during this recession so I'm fortunate enough to be able to contribute at this level.

I do hope there is a pay up option for guys like yourself.

If you're lucky enough to be able to do it and the plan is feasible, I think it's your duty.

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I have been against mini from the off..............................

He is tainted with the Nero board as far as i am concerned!

I do not believe he has the money to take the club forward, and the Ticketus money and needing money form the fans. Dressing it up as if we will have a voice.

Is he behind the Liquidation fear as a ploy, to get his way.................his wee buddies running with this story in the press(joke I know) and leggat continually harping on about it.

He has not filled me with confidence, he was , no matter how we dress it up , part of a borad that sat there and did hee haw as the club stumbled deeper and deeper downwards. They could have to a man left daddy murray in the lurch and resigned as one, when murray disappeared. The respect they would have received would have paid dividends for mini today, but they sat there and played their look at us. Please don't give me this, they cut the debt.....................No fuckin way did they do that. It is clear tpo everyone the bank took the bull by the horn and made the cuts required to reduce the level of debt to the level that is was at. Surely mini could have (if interested) could have seen this and made his move then? Not as the door was closed re whyte.

He states that the bank would have kept the £18m debt and worked with him to reduce this! Yet everyone knew the bank wanted out! So why didn't he get all this set up before whyte appeared on the scene? After all the bank had their man in the boardroom , so would have been easy for mini to get things up and running.

Did he know that administration was a cert? and did not want to be the man involved in taking the club into that scenario.

whyte has fucked up no doubt about that. Just recently Gordon Smith gave his thoughts on when the problems started and that was Europe more specifically failure re CL. That was the money to see the club through to the end of the season! or some may think money to find it into one of these mystery accounts.

Administrators are under attack as they are (according to certain people) in collusion with whyte. We ahve to wait and see what happens over the coming week, people do make bids and ask them to be kept confidential this is normal with this sort of bidding war.

Mini from day one has never been out of the press/media giving interviews WHY? He even said weeks ago he was involved with D&P in working towards the CVA. Yet could it be the administrators discovered he has to many if's and buts re his offer. I don't know that, the same way that know one knows what the other bidders thoughts are, apart from D&P.

Now they are stringing this out to boost their fees! they mentioned that they have to submit their fees to be agreed and signed off. Then we have this new law that debts will be taken into any newco as of the 6th April.where did this come from as it would not suddenly appear overnight, and why has it only been mentioned now.

They did not challenge the Ticketus deal form day one, they did not take whyte to court to remove his shares.

Ticketus...background work would have to be carried out into theis deal, so that explains not being dealt with from the off. whyte maybe they new he was/is not a problem anymore. they have stated publically that they do not see him involved on what happens to the club.

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Personally, I've been ok during this recession so I'm fortunate enough to be able to contribute at this level.

I do hope there is a pay up option for guys like yourself.

If you're lucky enough to be able to do it and the plan is feasible, I think it's your duty.

I don't recall saying that I couldn't afford to chip in to such a venture - I merely questioned the figures being touted (£1,000) and the timing of same (worldwide recession, etc) for this to kick-off.

I'm happy that you're mindful of the little people, like myself and others though. :rolleyes:

PS. Any risk of another bowl of hot gruel, sir....please? :sherlock:

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I have been against mini from the off..............................

He is tainted with the Nero board as far as i am concerned!

I do not believe he has the money to take the club forward, and the Ticketus money and needing money form the fans. Dressing it up as if we will have a voice.

Is he behind the Liquidation fear as a ploy, to get his way.................his wee buddies running with this story in the press(joke I know) and leggat continually harping on about it.

He has not filled me with confidence, he was , no matter how we dress it up , part of a borad that sat there and did hee haw as the club stumbled deeper and deeper downwards. They could have to a man left daddy murray in the lurch and resigned as one, when murray disappeared. The respect they would have received would have paid dividends for mini today, but they sat there and played their look at us. Please don't give me this, they cut the debt.....................No fuckin way did they do that. It is clear tpo everyone the bank took the bull by the horn and made the cuts required to reduce the level of debt to the level that is was at. Surely mini could have (if interested) could have seen this and made his move then? Not as the door was closed re whyte.

He states that the bank would have kept the £18m debt and worked with him to reduce this! Yet everyone knew the bank wanted out! So why didn't he get all this set up before whyte appeared on the scene? After all the bank had their man in the boardroom , so would have been easy for mini to get things up and running.

Did he know that administration was a cert? and did not want to be the man involved in taking the club into that scenario.

whyte has fucked up no doubt about that. Just recently Gordon Smith gave his thoughts on when the problems started and that was Europe more specifically failure re CL. That was the money to see the club through to the end of the season! or some may think money to find it into one of these mystery accounts.

Administrators are under attack as they are (according to certain people) in collusion with whyte. We ahve to wait and see what happens over the coming week, people do make bids and ask them to be kept confidential this is normal with this sort of bidding war.

Mini from day one has never been out of the press/media giving interviews WHY? He even said weeks ago he was involved with D&P in working towards the CVA. Yet could it be the administrators discovered he has to many if's and buts re his offer. I don't know that, the same way that know one knows what the other bidders thoughts are, apart from D&P.

Now they are stringing this out to boost their fees! they mentioned that they have to submit their fees to be agreed and signed off. Then we have this new law that debts will be taken into any newco as of the 6th April.where did this come from as it would not suddenly appear overnight, and why has it only been mentioned now.

They did not challenge the Ticketus deal form day one, they did not take whyte to court to remove his shares.

Ticketus...background work would have to be carried out into theis deal, so that explains not being dealt with from the off. whyte maybe they new he was/is not a problem anymore. they have stated publically that they do not see him involved on what happens to the club.

Was Paul Murray not just a fan who put money in to RFC to get a non-exec seat on the board? He was only appointed to the RFC board in Sept 2007. Two years later and the bank appointees were on the board. I very much doubt that there was much Paul Murray could do in his position. David Murray ran Rangers in dictatorial fashion as any shareholder could tell you from the AGMs. There was always some critical comment from shareholders but we were always outvoted.

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I don't recall saying that I couldn't afford to chip in to such a venture - I merely questioned the figures being touted (£1,000) and the timing of same (worldwide recession, etc) for this to kick-off.

I'm happy that you're mindful of the little people, like myself and others though. :rolleyes:

PS. Any risk of another bowl of hot gruel, sir....please? :sherlock:

Lol sarkie bastard

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How did the last share issue go ?

If TBK are underwriting this issue, why are they having to borrow money from Ticketus to buy the club ?

Something just doesn't add up. They ain't spending any cash.

Rangers and the fans will end up paying for their trip.

We're already borrowing from ticketus. Getting them onside for more favourable repayment terms is far better than protracted legal battles over revenue, liquidation or allowing them the chance to scupper a CVA.

Working with Ticketus makes good business sense and brings added value to the deal in my eyes.

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Of course you are correct (pedant :rolleyes: ) but I am pretty sure that I and the majority of my fellow Rangers shareholders told Teflon Dave where to stick his "rights issue" at the time.

He was sent packing.

And let us not forget the difference in having a rights issue and being told by the bank that you had better do something about the debt! Also interesting that no one would underwrite this issue, was more a well you had better get this debt sorted out . One has to wonder was it originally said get money from your main company into Rangers to cut this debt.......and eureka , will get the money from rights issue.

The above scenario is just the thought of one ordinary Rangers fan, who really knows hee haw :disappointment:;)

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The thing with a staged payment means that the BKs won't get the full lump sum up front which I think it needs.

They would need to fund at least 15M up front to get the engines started, do they have access to that kind of money.

I reckon they need ticketus for this initial working capital, will then set up a share issue in the hope of minimizing the interest payments due.

Were they sure that the fans would buy in they might have done a deal with a more conventional lender, they really are banking on the fans in this.

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We're already borrowing from ticketus. Getting them onside for more favourable repayment terms is far better than protracted legal battles over revenue, liquidation or allowing them the chance to scupper a CVA.

Working with Ticketus makes good business sense and brings added value to the deal in my eyes.

I'm pretty sure that the "we're already borrowing from Ticketus" part is what the Admin' guys are arguing against.

Do you mean the Royal "we" or Craig Whtye personally? :sherlock:

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Was Paul Murray not just a fan who put money in to RFC to get a non-exec seat on the board? He was only appointed to the RFC board in Sept 2007. Two years later and the bank appointees were on the board. I very much doubt that there was much Paul Murray could do in his position. David Murray ran Rangers in dictatorial fashion as any shareholder could tell you from the AGMs. There was always some critical comment from shareholders but we were always outvoted.

Indeed , but let's not forget mini is an accountant and wasa wizz kid with Deutsch Bank, so would not have taken him long to see what was what.......also being a shareholder he would have scrutinised the accounts for years , unless creative accountancy was being used.

We all know murray ran the club they way you describe. That is why to a man they should have drawn attention and resigned to a man, but they didn't. That one act would have brought home the plight that murray took the club.

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And let us not forget the difference in having a rights issue and being told by the bank that you had better do something about the debt! Also interesting that no one would underwrite this issue, was more a well you had better get this debt sorted out . One has to wonder was it originally said get money from your main company into Rangers to cut this debt.......and eureka , will get the money from rights issue.

The above scenario is just the thought of one ordinary Rangers fan, who really knows hee haw :disappointment:;)

The right issue may have been a huge red flag to the banks ... all it ended up doing was transferring a ton of debt on to Murray's main company, as it was left under-writing the issue. Rangers got an injection of funds, Murray ended up owning more of the club and MIH ended up increasing its debt to the banks.

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Indeed , but let's not forget mini is an accountant and wasa wizz kid with Deutsch Bank, so would not have taken him long to see what was what.......also being a shareholder he would have scrutinised the accounts for years , unless creative accountancy was being used.

Would he? Or is Hugh Adams right about the blazer, tie and seat in the Directors' Box being the primary concern of some?

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Indeed , but let's not forget mini is an accountant and wasa wizz kid with Deutsch Bank, so would not have taken him long to see what was what.......also being a shareholder he would have scrutinised the accounts for years , unless creative accountancy was being used.

We all know murray ran the club they way you describe. That is why to a man they should have drawn attention and resigned to a man, but they didn't. That one act would have brought home the plight that murray took the club.

Strangely enough, Paul Murray is shown in the accounts as not having held any shares. I think you will find that his board appointment was in name only. A status for cash reward only.

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Strangely enough, Paul Murray is shown in the accounts as not having held any shares. I think you will find that his board appointment was in name only. A status for cash reward only.

I knew it was for cash injection, I am surprised to learn that he was/is not a share owner. There was 1 or 2 others also as non exec also, was there not a guy from a whisky company

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I'd love to, but I simply can't afford £1000. It's s a shame many people are being priced out of this.

I can understand your situation my friend but for such a scheme to work the bar has to be set at a reasonable level. If you give people the option of putting in £100 or £1,000 in the vast majority of cases they will choose the former amount. In our current plight we really need to aim high. There could be an opportunity to come in later with a smaller investment sum.

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I can understand your situation my friend but for such a scheme to work the bar has to be set at a reasonable level. If you give people the option of putting in £100 or £1,000 in the vast majority of cases they will choose the former amount. In our current plight we really need to aim high. There could be an opportunity to come in later with a smaller investment sum.

The put the minimum at £100. Those who wish to put in £1,000 need only buy 10 of them.

Simples.

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Priced at a grand = failure.

History has shown this, if nothing else.

It would seem they don't want the share issue to succeed. That puts the promised fan ownership to bed labelled "ah well we tried"

What worries me is where TBK are getting the cash to underwrite this. They clearly aren't using their own.

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