UnionMen 411 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 For singing The Billy Boys, it's not my place to tell anyone what to do in that situation, and a conviction can have serious repercussions on your everyday life, but there's nothing i'd love more than for a bear to fight this at every level of the courts they possibly can, exploring every legal recourse available.The developments over the last 10 years and the SNP's term in Holyrood have left me amazed at what they've been able to pass off as law. Bearing in mind that laws must comply with both UK & EU law at a higher level. The football behaviour bill for instance, a law in Scotland, where-by anything a "reasonable person" may find offence becomes illegal, (at a football match only). I guess it begs the question as to why utter a particular chant may be an arrestable offence at a Football match, but perfectly legal at a Boxing or Rugby match. It also leaves everyone scratching there heads as to what a reasonable person is; not someone who believes in freedom of speech it seems.More specifically however, I'd love to see the 'offending lyrics' in The Billy Boys challenged in a court of law.Who exactly is offended by the term "fenian"? Obviously not those who seem to take pride in being an "unrepentant fenian bastard": http://www.zazzle.co.uk/unrepentant+fenian+bastard+giftsObviously not a set of football fans who like to chant about being apart of a "fenian army"; A few years back, i recall a caller on Clyde1 (let's call him Paul for talking sake), wound-up by a chorus of The Billy Boys. His words were along the lines of "how would you like to listen to a chant about them being up to their knees in your peoples blood?" That seems a hell of a thing to admit to there Paul, on the radio no less! I wonder if the armed police unit were round his house that night?Or perhaps he was just confused as to the definition of the term, or maybe he was going along with the charade that it's a derogatory term for someone of the catholic faith? I've heard this absurdity a couple of times. There's no basis for that, and it's a hell of a jump to make from Fenianism to Catholicism. It's akin to interpreting the term "Nazi" to be a slur on anyone of German descent. It's a good comparison to make actually, Fenianism & Nazism, 2 barbaric political movements, which worked hand-in-hand at one point. It would be interesting to see how Police Scotland would react to the lyrics "Up to our knees is Nazi blood". Would the thought police give you a night in the slammer to consider how racist you were being towards the German people? After all, it seems as if it's very much a case of the "thought police" to give them any basis to outlaw the term "fenian" as being a racist or sectarian term. Which leads me to a case heard by the Scottish Courts in 2009; William Walls vs The PF, Kilmarnock. Ruled by Lord Carloway.http://news.stv.tv/west-central/96661-singing-famine-song-is-political-comment-trial-hears/"Mr Findlay told the court: "The reference to 'Fenian' is not a religious remark. It is in fact a political observation."The origin of 'Fenian' is entirely political and relates to the quest for a non-British, united Ireland. In a free country, in a free society, subject always to the operation of the rules of law, we are entitled to express our opinion and to do it forcibly if we wish."We all know the above to be fact, it's not disputable. (Unless you can find a moment in history where the definition of the offending term changed). The court however, ruled differently. Seems they read the defendants mind and came to the conclusion he displayed "malice and ill-will towards members of a religious group, or of a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation, based on their membership of that group" (this is the standard set out in the Criminal Justice Scotland Act 2003, linked below).(case file: http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2009HCJAC59.html ,section 74 of Criminal Justice (Scotland) 2003: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/7/section/74)Seems rather strange to me? You argue in a court of law that you used a term to it's definition, in opposition to murderous political rebellion that your sporting rivals often sing about, only to be told by the thought police that no, you were slanderous & offensive to 1.1billion practising Catholics in the world. Some leap. On yersel, Lord Carloway. (Familiar with that name? He was the judge who upheld our unprecedented signing embargo). "OK judge, you know my thought process better than I."Perhaps for avoidance of doubt and to prevent Carloway and his thought police making similar mistakes again, Rangers fans should carry disclaimers in their wallets that read: "Any reference I may make to the term "Fenian" relates soley to the participation in, or support of, the armed & violent Irish Republican movement, and in no way, shape, or form, is intended to cause malice and ill-will towards any members of any religious group".Would be interesting to see how the likes of Carloway react to that being entered into evidence, I wonder if he would still feel himself to be in a position to tell what defendants are thinking and in what context they are using their language when it's been pre-empted with a disclaimer.Kenny McAskill, the laughing stock of Holyrood has moved on now from his position of Justice Secretary. Time to let the clean-up operation of the mess he left begin. 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BridgeIsBlue 66,592 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 #JeSuisBilly Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1872 20,647 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't see how they can arrest 25,000 bears for singing the song. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Will Follow Rangers 12,916 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Big trophies loud and proud.followed by who's the big trophy in the black @ thomson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange&blue92 1,284 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Scarf over mouth loyal Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQueensEleven 1,355 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncy 315 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 they cant do nowt about new lyrics but see your point Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnionMen 411 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Big trophies loud and proud.followed by who's the big trophy in the black @ thomson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnionMen 411 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnionMen 411 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevotrueblue 382 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 If I ever get lifted for singing it I will just point oot the fact as I was sent to a catholic primary school before going on to a protestant secondary school I could easily play the card that technically on paper I'm catholic and do not find it offensive,,, as I'm in no way a republican, irish loving, poppy hating, anti British, child beasting chunt, and there lies yer difference you honour ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobar 13,676 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Don't imagine they will go into the crowd on Sunday to lift people, would think it would be chaps on doors a few weeks later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevotrueblue 382 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Don't imagine they will go into the crowd on Sunday to lift people, would think it would be chaps on doors a few weeks later.Is it illegal to mime the words then, maybe we can get charged for thinking them next ? How can they PROVE what you said after the fact without having you on audio tape. Innocent until PROVEN is it not, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rfc#1. 1,877 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Stick to 'big trophies'.The days of mock-offending taigs has been consigned to history.Can't we all just be friends its 2015 after all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rfc#1. 1,877 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 dp Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rfc#1. 1,877 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'll be looking for one of those half n half scarves just to show how pc i am. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1872 20,647 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'll be looking for one of those half n half scarves just to show how pc i am.Aye Rangers and Linfield Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncy 315 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 its a simple plead not guilty Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tontospal 1,116 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't see how they can arrest 25,000 bears for singing the song.Of course they can't but their is certainly a risk of individuals being picked at random.If individuals get arrested for it I hope that all of the fans singing it support their fellow supporters instead of the usual everyman for himself stance.All for one and one for all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdchoiceleftback 5 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Anti-sectarian charities appeal for calm at Old Firm matchhttp://thirdforcenews.org.uk/tfn-news/social-justice-and-poverty/anti-sectarian-charities-appeal-for-calm-at-old-firm-match/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouseblue 145 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The only advice I would ever give any one who finds themselves arrested ,having been in that position myself, was best illustrated by that 24 hours in custody the other night. Three different blokes for three differebt domestics and only one went no comment and he was the most objectionable of the three but wound up being the only one not charged or cautioned at the end .The fact that singing this song can get you arrested is a disgrace but the time to formulate your argument or response isn't in the cell or in an interview when they hold all the cards.Save your battles until you have all the facts and evidence to formulate your defence as Is your right.Best of luck Saturday and I hope the police can behave in a sensible manner but I'm not holding my breath. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Williamson. 81,949 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You fucking legend Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBluenose1972 1,405 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Anti-sectarian charities appeal for calm at Old Firm matchhttp://thirdforcenews.org.uk/tfn-news/social-justice-and-poverty/anti-sectarian-charities-appeal-for-calm-at-old-firm-match/ No more freindlies derbies, 4 years ago we were turning the old firm into the friendly derby mk2. Im glad the hatred is back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vires 59 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You need to be able to distinguish between someone calling themselves 'Paddy McCourts fenian army', to calling someone a 'fenian' - which is meant in a derogatory fashion. It's all a matter of context.Personally though, I have no quarrels with the word fenian, I utilize it often. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAMPS4LIFE 86 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 not just about arrests but the club will be punished also so do as you will but don't moan about the repercussions Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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