Another perception on recent claims by contacts/boss

[thehost 11,061]

I'm clearly not clever enough to use the multi-quote.

Orangeclement & Token:

The Enemy Within is/was nothing to do with the protest. The protestors cannot stop other people making up banners.

There's no witch hunt against anyone. Throughout the whole thread I've indicated that clarity needs to be given and sought after on BOTH sides and from all parties present at this meeting. Given that contacts is a well known poster in the online community I don't think it's unreasonable to ask this here. Also, as he has already provided information from a supposedly confidential meeting then you would assume he has no problem clarifying this and answering any questions to the contrary? I would assume (always risky!) that this would be why the other members of this meeting have not spoken up.

You have clarity, insofar as contacts has posted, what more do you want?

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

[quote name='BlueIsTheColour' date='17 February 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1266401940'

There is no info, and Barry221 didn't write that article.

Of course he didn't but that's not the issue (although it certainly is AN issue). The questions have been raised and if 'Barry 221's' information is incorrect then Contacts wouldn't have too much trouble coming out and quashing it.

If he's keeping quiet becuase of confidentiality and he has said all that he can then that's fair enough. There's people on this thread who know the answers and the fact they aren't saying anything either is disconcerting.

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

You have clarity, insofar as contacts has posted, what more do you want?

Hello old friend

By that logic then I also have clarity insofar as Barry 221 has posted?

The fact remains there are two different stories.

[thehost 11,061]

You have clarity, insofar as contacts has posted, what more do you want?

Hello old friend

By that logic then I also have clarity insofar as Barry 221 has posted?

The fact remains there are two different stories.

The fact remains there was one story and then a critique thereof. I highly doubt the originator is going to get involved in a he sais she said debate. As to fans getting information maybe it's just me but why would anyone expect people to tell all and sundry what happens in a boardroom? Any information that is provided is given to specific people with an intent behind it. This time it's contacts next time it might be suck or his pals.

I am sure that the general populous will anly know when things are complete. Still doesn't stop all interested parties droppping their own hints and spin as can be seen by our esteemed ass. manager today.

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

As to fans getting information maybe it's just me but why would anyone expect people to tell all and sundry what happens in a boardroom? Any information that is provided is given to specific people with an intent behind it. This time it's contacts next time it might be suck or his pals.

I wouldn't expect to hear any boardroom information which is why I was extremely surprised to see an article on Saturday morning on this site with the whole truth straight from DM's mouth.

[jimgers 565]

It's a crying shame so it is, All these good Bears tearing each other to pieces. We the supporters our great club have been well and truly done up like kippers???

Oh how the the establishment must be laughing their heads off.

Talk about divide and conquer!!! it's the first rule in any dispute, confuse your opponent.

The Rangers Establishment have pulled a masterstroke in nullifying the protest, who gained the most by throwing the spanner in the works of the protest??

Who was behind (and i don't mean the writers) promoting the idea of the two spoiler articles, because lets make no mistake here those two articles released just before P-day were what they call in the media world spoilers. Deliberately timed to SPIOL the effect of the protest (which in my view had sadly already been possessed 'exorcists' like from the original "Truth and Clarity" understandable protest to the "Muir The Enemy Within" of an ongoing concurrent agenda led protest).

Get the answers to these questions and i think we will get somewhat nearer the 'Truth and Clarity' of this debacle!!

[Chef 436]

im kind of curious with regards to the protest, i understand the aims of the protest and the reason behind the protest but i aint convinced that the protest i saw take place, however small the minority were taking part, was directed in the correct manner, we had debate after debate on here regarding this exact issue and when i saw the protest there were no questions, no demand of answers but just personal attacks on a board member, what even worries me most is there were action to take donations from fans whome were under the impression that the banners would be asking for answers albiet i was personally told there was facts regarding the issue at the time regarding muir,s position but was never shown any, and constantly aking only to get told nothing factual, just that the facts are there.

can someone now tell me what the facts are since the protest has past, or are there still no facts, maybe jelle or the likes can answer as he is the one that told me time and time again the facts are there, im sure like most if i were shown facts i could put this matter to bed

[Jimenez 1]

No-one is in a 'huff' with contacts, people are rightly looking for clarity from BOTH sides. As contacts is relatively easily accessible here (!!) then that's why he's being mentioned.

There is an insinuation (in the first post of this thread) that contacts's information does not tally up with other attendees to this meeting and therefore this is why questions are being asked.

There's also perhaps a smaller side issue that this meeting (and subsequent article) took place just before the protest. I would think contacts was well aware of said protest, indeed support was asked for on this forum, yet made no attempt to contact the protestors (who went to some expense and time to organise) to make them aware that he may be in a position to get the clarity they sought.

I am, people have paid money from there own pockets to seek clarity from the supposed powers that be at Ibrox. All of a sudden Muir is inviting Rangers fans along for a meal days before the protest is planned.... we then get pro-Muir articles in one of the busiest mediums there is for support discussion. If this doesn't scream out 'shady dealings' to anyone else that's fine but it does to me.

If Muir (and I've not made my mind up about this either way) is as honest and upfront as those who defend him say he is then why the need underhand tactics ? Fuck it, why doesn't he just come out and say what he has to say in the public domain ?

[loyalandtrueblue 69]

Having read through this long and at times tedious post i am as confused now as i was at the beginning!!!!

Who are the people involved?Who is contacts? have i logged into MI5 forums by mistake?

[Orangeclement 570]

No-one is in a 'huff' with contacts, people are rightly looking for clarity from BOTH sides. As contacts is relatively easily accessible here (!!) then that's why he's being mentioned.

There is an insinuation (in the first post of this thread) that contacts's information does not tally up with other attendees to this meeting and therefore this is why questions are being asked.

There's also perhaps a smaller side issue that this meeting (and subsequent article) took place just before the protest. I would think contacts was well aware of said protest, indeed support was asked for on this forum, yet made no attempt to contact the protestors (who went to some expense and time to organise) to make them aware that he may be in a position to get the clarity they sought.

I am, people have paid money from there own pockets to seek clarity from the supposed powers that be at Ibrox. All of a sudden Muir is inviting Rangers fans along for a meal days before the protest is planned.... we then get pro-Muir articles in one of the busiest mediums there is for support discussion. If this doesn't scream out 'shady dealings' to anyone else that's fine but it does to me.

If Muir (and I've not made my mind up about this either way) is as honest and upfront as those who defend him say he is then why the need underhand tactics ? Fuck it, why doesn't he just come out and say what he has to say in the public domain ?

I'd be more annoyed my money was used to attack Muir and Llyods bank rather than asking for clarity , although i think i maybe seen one banner asking an actual question but then again there was no control if people wanted to bring their own ( makes you wonder why they didnt just give money and have someone else make a banner for them if they were interested in the protest)

[outlaw69uk 123]

You have clarity, insofar as contacts has posted, what more do you want?

Hello old friend

By that logic then I also have clarity insofar as Barry 221 has posted?

The fact remains there are two different stories.

Has it been confirmed yet that it was actually written by Barry221? That in itself appeared to be questionable the other day.

The main problem for me, is not the story, or, what is truthful here, because, that will come out in the fullness of time. The more pertinent point is that the OP was written as a petulant (I use that word as, for me, its pretty childish imho) attack on RM, or perhaps the individuals, or both. Thats just not on. I dont have any time for FF, however, act such as this will also do nothing more than make others lower their opinion of it, and those involved, and, with some justification. The "information" could have been put out in a "contrary to reports elsewhere, we believe that....." and, there would have been zero problem with that, I wouldnt think? The only reasoning I can seebehind this, is simply to cause trouble and divide, which is the last thing we need at the moment, is it not?

The slightly amusing part is, why have a pop at RM? It has to be the most open site going, with pretty much ALL sides airing views on things regularly, you can even get pished out your face, abuse people and still manage to log on in the morning!! Its a silly target, and, I dont really understand the agenda behind this.

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

I'd be more annoyed my money was used to attack Muir and Llyods bank rather than asking for clarity , although i think i maybe seen one banner asking an actual question but then again there was no control if people wanted to bring their own ( makes you wonder why they didnt just give money and have someone else make a banner for them if they were interested in the protest)

The problem being that before guys like NL had anything to do with it the protest wheels were already in motion. A fund had been set up and ideas had been posted on FF for a good few days before. They then decided to take the official protest in a different direction but ultimately others chose otherwise.

I don't believe there will be any further protests or if there are the same people will not be responsible.

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

Has it been confirmed yet that it was actually written by Barry221? That in itself appeared to be questionable the other day.

The main problem for me, is not the story, or, what is truthful here, because, that will come out in the fullness of time. The more pertinent point is that the OP was written as a petulant (I use that word as, for me, its pretty childish imho) attack on RM, or perhaps the individuals, or both.

I don't know Barry 221 from Adam. Not a name I recognised when the post first came to light. I have no answer on whether it was actually written by him.

The second point I've highlighted is where I'll disagree, respectfully of course .

I'm of the opinion that two differing points of view regarding a fairly crucial meeting is more important than childish mud slinging.(though I agree that the tone of the article is less than complimentary and perhaps could have been worded a bit better, but then both sides are guilty of that in the past)

[outlaw69uk 123]

No-one is in a 'huff' with contacts, people are rightly looking for clarity from BOTH sides. As contacts is relatively easily accessible here (!!) then that's why he's being mentioned.

There is an insinuation (in the first post of this thread) that contacts's information does not tally up with other attendees to this meeting and therefore this is why questions are being asked.

There's also perhaps a smaller side issue that this meeting (and subsequent article) took place just before the protest. I would think contacts was well aware of said protest, indeed support was asked for on this forum, yet made no attempt to contact the protestors (who went to some expense and time to organise) to make them aware that he may be in a position to get the clarity they sought.

I am, people have paid money from there own pockets to seek clarity from the supposed powers that be at Ibrox. All of a sudden Muir is inviting Rangers fans along for a meal days before the protest is planned.... we then get pro-Muir articles in one of the busiest mediums there is for support discussion. If this doesn't scream out 'shady dealings' to anyone else that's fine but it does to me.

If Muir (and I've not made my mind up about this either way) is as honest and upfront as those who defend him say he is then why the need underhand tactics ? Fuck it, why doesn't he just come out and say what he has to say in the public domain ?

I think I agree on the timings, then again, it COULD just be coincidental of course. I also have a theory that, if Muir is brought in by minty, and, his other companies are in as much potential bother as I have read about, then, theres a good chance that we dont hear much, because in that grand scheme of things, we are an afterthought. Not nice for US to hear, but, if we owe £30 mil, and, he owes another £700 million or whatever, I would sense things are probably more important to him (and Muir) over there. We already have a business plan to reduce debt by £1million a year do we not? and, as far as I remember, still have some we can spend?

I dont know about Smith and McCoists comments regarding things, but, what I do know is this. When we win league, and, tims dont make the Champions league, regardless of how far we get in it, thats £20 million income, which would bring debt to £10 million (assuming no outgoings and using childish accounting haha). If Barca are genuinly sniffing after Boughera, theres every reason to expect we could flog him for another £10mil. Thats us debt free, essentially. So, whether the bank, or Muir or whoever are "running us", In a couple of months time, we could be sat celebrating the treble, without debt, so, I for one am not worrying my head off over things.

In addition, if that was the case, any new owners investment, would/could be purely towards improving and strengthening, as, no doubt they will be setting aside money to deal with the debt, which, may not be required.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Has it been confirmed yet that it was actually written by Barry221? That in itself appeared to be questionable the other day.

The main problem for me, is not the story, or, what is truthful here, because, that will come out in the fullness of time. The more pertinent point is that the OP was written as a petulant (I use that word as, for me, its pretty childish imho) attack on RM, or perhaps the individuals, or both.

I don't know Barry 221 from Adam. Not a name I recognised when the post first came to light. I have no answer on whether it was actually written by him.

The second point I've highlighted is where I'll disagree, respectfully of course .

I'm of the opinion that two differing points of view regarding a fairly crucial meeting is more important than childish mud slinging.(though I agree that the tone of the article is less than complimentary and perhaps could have been worded a bit better, but then both sides are guilty of that in the past)

Of course both sides are important, I wont argue that mate, but, the tone is the thing for me. Different wording would have created a totally different debate, which would probably have been far more productive. The manner in which you put things across, especially about important/sensitive subjects is of paramount importance I feel, and, the main reason I have been critical of the RST in the past, its not what they wanted to do, it was how it came across, but, thats another topic

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

I think I agree on the timings, then again, it COULD just be coincidental of course. I also have a theory that, if Muir is brought in by minty, and, his other companies are in as much potential bother as I have read about, then, theres a good chance that we dont hear much, because in that grand scheme of things, we are an afterthought. Not nice for US to hear, but, if we owe £30 mil, and, he owes another £700 million or whatever, I would sense things are probably more important to him (and Muir) over there. We already have a business plan to reduce debt by £1million a year do we not? and, as far as I remember, still have some we can spend?

I dont know about Smith and McCoists comments regarding things, but, what I do know is this. When we win league, and, tims dont make the Champions league, regardless of how far we get in it, thats £20 million income, which would bring debt to £10 million (assuming no outgoings and using childish accounting haha). If Barca are genuinly sniffing after Boughera, theres every reason to expect we could flog him for another £10mil. Thats us debt free, essentially. So, whether the bank, or Muir or whoever are "running us", In a couple of months time, we could be sat celebrating the treble, without debt, so, I for one am not worrying my head off over things.

In addition, if that was the case, any new owners investment, would/could be purely towards improving and strengthening, as, no doubt they will be setting aside money to deal with the debt, which, may not be required.

I don't mean to rain on your parade but we don't get anything near £20million from competing in the CL. It's around £10million (at best). We also don't get it all upfront (we are still due some of this years I believe).

The CL money is also not pure profit so it can't be 100% counted towards debt. Some or most of it is needed for day to day costs and things like player salaries.

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

Of course both sides are important, I wont argue that mate, but, the tone is the thing for me. Different wording would have created a totally different debate, which would probably have been far more productive. The manner in which you put things across, especially about important/sensitive subjects is of paramount importance I feel, and, the main reason I have been critical of the RST in the past, its not what they wanted to do, it was how it came across, but, thats another topic

I would counter that by saying that WHERE this post originated from dictated the tone of this thread much more than the tone of the article (as uncomplimentary as it was)

Definitely for another thread

[Orangeclement 570]

I'd be more annoyed my money was used to attack Muir and Llyods bank rather than asking for clarity , although i think i maybe seen one banner asking an actual question but then again there was no control if people wanted to bring their own ( makes you wonder why they didnt just give money and have someone else make a banner for them if they were interested in the protest)

The problem being that before guys like NL had anything to do with it the protest wheels were already in motion. A fund had been set up and ideas had been posted on FF for a good few days before. They then decided to take the official protest in a different direction but ultimately others chose otherwise.

I don't believe there will be any further protests or if there are the same people will not be responsible.

That would be a reasonable explanation as i was not aware that FF were planning a protest before NL took up the baton

[Chookes 20]

I don't mean to rain on your parade but we don't get anything near £20million from competing in the CL. It's around £10million (at best). We also don't get it all upfront (we are still due some of this years I believe).

Isn't it £10M (approx) for entry to the CL and TV revenue added on top of that (bigger the slice depending on if Hibs get through qualifying ).

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

That would be a reasonable explanation as i was not aware that FF were planning a protest before NL took up the baton

There were plans in place to have a protest on Edminston Drive. Vocal against Muir and Lloyds.

This was reigned in and what you seen is the end result. (save for a few freelance banners )

[OnlyOneAmoruso 1]

Isn't it £10M (approx) for entry to the CL and TV revenue added on top of that (bigger the slice depending on if Hibs get through qualifying ).

Touche

Not to my knowledge mate. I believe it's roughly around £10-£12m in total. This season we received in the region of £2.5m extra direct from Uefa because Celtic did not qualify. This would intimate to me that we received approx £5-6m for competing, roughly £1million per home game gate receipts and then the bonuses for picking up points (not very high in our case )

Perhaps bluedell or boss could clarify on that.

[Northampton_Loyalist 2]

I'd be more annoyed my money was used to attack Muir and Llyods bank rather than asking for clarity , although i think i maybe seen one banner asking an actual question but then again there was no control if people wanted to bring their own ( makes you wonder why they didnt just give money and have someone else make a banner for them if they were interested in the protest)

The problem being that before guys like NL had anything to do with it the protest wheels were already in motion. A fund had been set up and ideas had been posted on FF for a good few days before. They then decided to take the official protest in a different direction but ultimately others chose otherwise.

I don't believe there will be any further protests or if there are the same people will not be responsible.

That would be a reasonable explanation as i was not aware that FF were planning a protest before NL took up the baton

FF were not mate. Iniesta made a call for a protest, people got behind him as an individual straight away. I offered to help a couple of days later, after the thread had been up a while and a collection for money started. You might have seen that the statement did not go up until a week or so after the first call was made, that time was used to reign in some pretty wild suggestions and to try and get as many sites on board as possible.

[Geronimole 0]

Its obvious Clarity will never be sought between the 2 boards. One side has a story which they firmly believe, the other side has a story which the firmly believe but there are fans in the middle reading both sides and looking for answers from both parties and you can only do that by challenging both forums. The sad situation is "there is clandestine meetings with people who have been portrayed has high profile and influential Rangers fans" Reading into this it seems none "them" are absolved from blame.Five supposedly influential folk cannont bring back to the table honest direct information to the REAL fans!!! I walk down the same rd on a sat, I climb the same stairs, I sit in the same seats, I pay the same my money, I cheer Rangers throughout 90 mins. None of them are more influential than me. I want to know whats happening to the club ive followed for 45 yrs home away abroad and I depend on certain folk releasing certain information but this crew seem to be releasing information as a means to justify their own end. If they want a Blazer and tie I will buy them one but if any of you are reading and what you are doing is not for the best interest of the club then I hope you sleep well the rest of your days as a so called Rangers fan

Pissed off Pig in the middle non influential Rangers fan

[Shearer 124]

I don't mean to rain on your parade but we don't get anything near £20million from competing in the CL. It's around £10million (at best). We also don't get it all upfront (we are still due some of this years I believe).

Isn't it £10M (approx) for entry to the CL and TV revenue added on top of that (bigger the slice depending on if Hibs get through qualifying ).

Not to mention the money you get for winning and drawing. There is a lot to be gained from just getting into the group stage and getting a few points.

[Chef 436]

im kind of curious with regards to the protest, i understand the aims of the protest and the reason behind the protest but i aint convinced that the protest i saw take place, however small the minority were taking part, was directed in the correct manner, we had debate after debate on here regarding this exact issue and when i saw the protest there were no questions, no demand of answers but just personal attacks on a board member, what even worries me most is there were action to take donations from fans whome were under the impression that the banners would be asking for answers albiet i was personally told there was facts regarding the issue at the time regarding muir,s position but was never shown any, and constantly aking only to get told nothing factual, just that the facts are there.

can someone now tell me what the facts are since the protest has past, or are there still no facts, maybe jelle or the likes can answer as he is the one that told me time and time again the facts are there, im sure like most if i were shown facts i could put this matter to bed