UEFA Cup Final Bears hung out to dry

[AW-WATP 112]

:jelavic:

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

Thats not how it happened. The police were jumping out of their vans and charging into the crowds, hitting out at people, thats why so many normally peaceful individuals turned on them. Obviously, anyone looking for trouble would have been happy to have a go, but there were plenty people just reacting to their friends/family being clubbed from those bastards. Reacting to being clubbed by a thug does not make you a thug.

i know mate, and to be honest you and everyone else would defend their mates in any situation

but videos show like the copper being tripped up and set upon when he's himself against maybe 10-15 supposed supporters cannot be justified

we complained about large groups of coppers charging small sets of fans, yet some would defend the complete opposite like that video showed

Lucky you, you were at the game. Those of us stranded in Piccadilly Gardens and attacked by the GMP weren't so fortunate, some of us still havent seen the game. Not that I want to now, but I'll be back down there hopefully, even if I have to sit with the Mancs like our last visit to Old Trafford.

even the stadium was a shambles mate, our electronic ticket got us into any part of the ground

a steward gave us wrong directions for our turnstyles, yet we managed to get in and had to walk through 4 whole sections to get to our seats

as i said above, a complete shambles of an organised day from start to finish, to which the clubs name will forever be connected to unfortunately

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Even getting to a UEFA Cup final, against many odds, should have been a proud day for this Club. And Walter Smith, I was so happy for the man- he deserved that. One day I want to look at that achievement; we were very close to winning that- what a day that could have been, compared to all this stuff.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

I dont recall seeing any riot police until after kick-off.

You just have a low opinion of your fellow brethren

when we walked out of piccadilly station around 1pm mate they were outside the station, tried to hide the riot gear underneath the hi-viz jackets but some had them half undone because the heat and you could see the weaponry etc underneath

i dont have a low opinion of my fellow bears mate, i just feel gutted for the fans that were completely innocent, but caught up in it because of a tiny minority that acted in a way that they, in hindsight, will feel very ashamed about (not the fans defending each other, the guys that acted like wannabe hardmen as i mentioned above)

[bawbaggery 0]

and neither have a fair whack of trouble making fans no doubt

the most gutting part of it all is that the coppers EXPECTED trouble, hence the wearing of riot gear from the beginning of the day

and right on cue we gave them it

the whole season of fantastic behaviour while travelling in europe was undone in an hour of pure madness no doubt instigated and continued by complete rockets that watched every gers game before it in their local boozer

a complete shambles of a day from start to finish in manchester, that unfortunately we were all a part of, including the clubs name

these guys will get out of jail, and likely sink back into society where nearly everyone will not have a fucking clue about this persons past

whereas mention our clubs name and europe in 20 years time, and you'll find that manchester riots will be remembered still

You appear reticent to address the police brutality and outright assault of innocents, maybe you think they the police are above the law, and are able to dish out summary justice, i.e. unjustifiable violence.

[WVB 2,560]

but videos show like the copper being tripped up and set upon when he's himself against maybe 10-15 supposed supporters cannot be justified

Possibly not, but I would ask what that officer had been doing for the previous couple of hours?

My money says he was whacking every bluenose in sight,so fuck him.

[AW-WATP 112]

Every sector that contributed to that game have to take a piece of the blame.

Fans got jail sentences but none of the GMP got suspensions or fines did they?Thats why im not a fan of the police,they can get away with most things.Fair enough they had to stop a 'riot' but some of it was over the top from what ive seen and heard.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

You appear reticent to address the police brutality and outright assault of innocents, maybe you think they the police are above the law, and are able to dish out summary justice, i.e. unjustifiable violence.

i dont mate, as i replied to WVB i have no qualms with people doing whatever it takes to defend themselves and fellow mates/bears that were unfairly targetted

what i do have an issue with is the likes of the fans i mentioned above, that thought they'd be complete wide-men within a group and launch shit at the coppers, then they are at the front of the running crowd when the coppers charge the whole group

as i said, a few lads i play 5's with got caught in situations like that, diving into doorways and pleading with coppers that they have nothing to do with it isnt their idea of a cracking day trip to a euro final

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

Possibly not, but I would ask what that officer had been doing for the previous couple of hours?

My money says he was whacking every bluenose in sight,so fuck him.

if he was then as you say, fuck him

but some people in this thread want both our fans caught causing trouble defended at all costs, while all coppers causing trouble to be brought to book

cant have it both ways unfortunately,

if the fans were defending themselves and fellow innocent bears then i stand by them, but the ones that caused trouble for no reason other than to feel hard cant complain if they are caught

[bawbaggery 0]

i dont mate, as i replied to WVB i have no qualms with people doing whatever it takes to defend themselves and fellow mates/bears that were unfairly targetted

what i do have an issue with is the likes of the fans i mentioned above, that thought they'd be complete wide-men within a group and launch shit at the coppers, then they are at the front of the running crowd when the coppers charge the whole group

as i said, a few lads i play 5's with got caught in situations like that, diving into doorways and pleading with coppers that they have nothing to do with it isnt their idea of a cracking day trip to a euro final

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, if they can find the persons who the say attacked the police, they can find the police who attacked innocent fans, it really wouldn't be that hard. Indeed one of the thug cops has had his assault on an innocent victim posted more than once today, do you think the club should demand some justice for the assaulted fan.

[WVB 2,560]

if the fans were defending themselves and fellow innocent bears then i stand by them, but the ones that caused trouble for no reason other than to feel hard cant complain if they are caught

Nobody can say it was "for no reason".........fecks sake, they switched the screen off after letting these guys drink all day.

I'm not excusing anything, but to say anyone "caused trouble for no reason" isn't correct. There were numerous reasons contributing to the scenes, the main ones being alcohol, the GMP, and poor organisation by Greater Manchester Council.

Are any of these factors is being addressed?

No. Too much like hard work.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, if they can find the persons who the say attacked the police, they can find the police who attacked innocent fans, it really wouldn't be that hard. Indeed one of the thug cops has had his assault on an innocent victim posted more than once today, do you think the club should demand some justice for the assaulted fan.

of course, i have said that they get as good as they give

but rangers fans cant have it both ways, we cant bleat and complain about the lack of action done to the coppers, then defend the guys in our support that were caught instigating trouble

the thread is about the sentences handed out to these guys, and they are hard and harsh yet, but if these guys are guilty of instigating and continuing any sort of trouble, we should attempt to distance ourselves from these guys

HOWEVER

if they were defending fellow bears unjustly attacked then yes stand up for them and defend them

none of us in here were at the hearing, we dont even know what they got charged with and the evidence provided

wether the coppers get convicted, or even tried in court is for another thread perhaps, this one was about the sentences and the subsequent defending of the guys that were jailed

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

Nobody can say it was "for no reason".........fecks sake, they switched the screen off after letting these guys drink all day.

I'm not excusing anything, but to say anyone "caused trouble for no reason" isn't correct. There were numerous reasons contributing to the scenes, the main ones being alcohol, the GMP, and poor organisation by Greater Manchester Council.

Are any of these factors is being addressed?

No. Too much like hard work.

i agree mate, but maybe thats for a different thread (or a bump of a thread thats likely kicking about in page 600 )

either way instead of a night to remember, its a night to forget, and for all true gers fans and the club, thats a fucking shame

might be my only ever euro final with rangers, and that actually guts me to think its remembered more for the trouble rather than the game

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Fairly well said Jim, I think some people were getting the Kleenex out for the people who were seen acting like thugs- shame on them for bringing this Club down.

As regards the innocent fans, a lot of them should complain, both against the thuggish police officers who were random in their attacks and the fact this event was so poorly organised(it's not like they weren't aware a big gathering was going to be there).

People need to take responsibility, and I can imagine the Club wish this would all go away, which is understandable, but some day a context needs to be put on this.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, if they can find the persons who the say attacked the police, they can find the police who attacked innocent fans, it really wouldn't be that hard. Indeed one of the thug cops has had his assault on an innocent victim posted more than once today, do you think the club should demand some justice for the assaulted fan.

Exactly I'd be happy not to take sides if the authorities did the same but they don't ... they stand by their own and we should do the same (and that definately doesn't include people who went down looking trouble)

England want the World Cup but if that is the best Manchester can do then TBH perhaps it should go elsewhere

[WVB 2,560]

England want the World Cup but if that is the best Manchester can do then TBH perhaps it should go elsewhere

FIFA would be off their heads to give the World Cup to England. Every single game would be at risk, with us marauding knuckledraggers just across the border and ready to mobilise.

[outlaw69uk 123]

What? Can you expand on that, please? Who are you referring to when you say 'those who prefer to hurt it'? And who is out to help them?

By all means, those who believe the writings of spiers and the record, or scottish sun

[outlaw69uk 123]

Evening.

I mean Mr and Mrs General Public who's knowledge of what went on in Manchester is based on lurid tabloid pictures of Rangers fans attacking policemen and rioting in the streets.

Ah, so, thats Mr and Mrs General Public in Scotland then. trust me, I live near Manchester, the opinion down here, and, in most parts of England, is something very different indeed

[Redsox1 1,361]

Nobody can say it was "for no reason".........fecks sake, they switched the screen off after letting these guys drink all day.

I'm not excusing anything, but to say anyone "caused trouble for no reason" isn't correct. There were numerous reasons contributing to the scenes, the main ones being alcohol, the GMP, and poor organisation by Greater Manchester Council.

Are any of these factors is being addressed?

No. Too much like hard work.

some things I agree with , some I don`t.

I was at the front of picadilly and yes we all had too much to drink , yes it was very poorly organized and I wasn`t happy about the screens going off. But at that point we thought they were coming back on. The first bit of trouble I seen was bottles being thrown by so called rangers fans at the back . no way in a million years were they going to hit the screens they were just going to hit rangers fans. the guy right next to me had his head split open when a bottle smashed his head. If you were in the street after a night out and a random guy smashed a bottle off your head I`m sure you`d want him locked up. some people on here were saying it could have happened to any of us. sorry shite.

no matter how pished I was I never thought about turning round and launching beer bottles at fellow fans.people seem to miss this out. after 5 or 10 mins I left to go to the velodrome where it was meant to be on. yet more pish from GMP but at that time I still hadn`t seen any violence from the cops. I ended up going to the station via the big wheel. never got in because I had a bottle of champagne which I didn`t fancy handing over ( well we were 2-0 down by then.) the cops were laughing and joking with me there ,no hassle at all.( I did have an elvis wig on at the time though and they weren`t laughing at rangers getting beaten either) I`m sure there was scottish cops there as well.( maybe thats why it was better there ).

I went to the station where we were getting picked up after the game and thats when I first seen the riot cops. quite a sight and yes you do get defensive when you see them.they are a bit like nazi stormtroopers. The thing is the only trouble I seen was our fans getting hurt by fellow so called fans.the rest I just seen on the news later.

the people throwing bottles at fellow fans should be treated like anyone would if you got your head smashed in by a bottle by a random guy in the street on a saturday night. If the guy got 3 1/2 years for giving the cop brain damage I think he`s lucky because I would have thought it could have been a lot worse. 1 thing that shouldn`t be missed is the cops attacking random fans , they should be taken to case also.this is just my take as everyone had different things happen to them that night so our views will be very different.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Ah, so, thats Mr and Mrs General Public in Scotland then. trust me, I live near Manchester, the opinion down here, and, in most parts of England, is something very different indeed

I was living in Coventry during the UEFA Cup Final and, for a couple of days at least, we were being villified by people who knew nothing of what actually went on.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

By all means, those who believe the writings of spiers and the record, or scottish sun

Who amongst our support is out to help them though? You say it's people on the Internet willing to criticise our support on the strength of what people in the tabloid press say but I've seen no evidence of this.

[Redsox1 1,361]

How many of the guys were season ticket holders ? just wondering. I know my mate ended up in a pub full of chelsea headhunters.

are they all really rangers fans or just a big game hunter ? All we get told just now is they are rangers fans but they classed everyone there as that.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

I had to do some things in London the following two days after the final, and the reputation of the Club took such a hit that I've never forgotten. People who knew me, knew I was a Rangers fan, it was a long two days.

Everything needs a narrative; that could be political parties,organisations, countries, individuals, and football clubs- some story that defines who or what you are. Well, the Club, that day, inherited a bad narrative, and a lot of that was due to thuggish behaviour, and that will take a long time to repair.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

double-post, sorry

[WVB 2,560]

I was living in Coventry during the UEFA Cup Final and, for a couple of days at least, we were being villified by people who knew nothing of what actually went on.

Thats fair enough, a couple of days of nonsensical reporting tends to do that. 2 years on however, in our own country, even amongst our own support, there are those who still seem to believe what they were initially told that night.

Ah, so, thats Mr and Mrs General Public in Scotland then. trust me, I live near Manchester, the opinion down here, and, in most parts of England, is something very different indeed

Now, if a guy living down there can tell you this, why can't you believe him, and not the lies spread by the rhags?