UEFA Cup Final Bears hung out to dry

[WattBlueNose 0]

The Evening Times is playing with this today, as are all the others. They state '175,000 Rangers fans, most without tickets, "descended" on the city'.

Let's consider that phrase 'most without tickets': 'without tickets for what'? The match?- the stadium holds 50,000, and the the fans knew they were going for the Big Screens and to be part of the atmosphere in the city-they weren't trying to get into the stadium.

We will have to be careful in the next few weeks. Every trial is gaining more and more inches in the papers, in the run-up to the match, and the slightest sign of anything and the Club takes a hit.

Once again the bears faithfull's proud name has been put under a cloud.I don't seem to have seen nothing on the

media fronts regarding Manchester City Council's responsibility in this debacle.

They knew thousands of bears would be travelling to their city without tickets and in foresight had the sense and

the hospitality to erect a giant screen for those fans.

Imo what they didn't do was have a contingency plan if something was to go wrong with the big screen.

Imo what did MCC and police expect when thousnds of bears travelled to manchester,having been invited

to watch in what was no doubt gers biggest cup final since the last euro final,on a giant screen.

I've never heard of any major city who erected a giant screen for travelling supporters on the day of

a major euro/world cup final who never had tickets and the screen failed to work.

Imo MCC should be taking their share of the blame of what happened in Manchester that night.

The whole things stinks on MCC front!!!

The bears who have received in what i believe to be quite excessive jail terms and their families have my

condolences,as they have when you look at the big picture,been made scapegoats out of.

Fuck MCC and Fuck Manchester police.In the media they were leading us to believe they wre total innocent's

in this story.

Only those of us with savvy in these kind of incidents know the real truth.

[bawbaggery 0]

.. er LOL they were ALL guilty - they deserve what they get - and still fail to fathom why SDM can be blamed.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

What the judge said about the blitz though was utterly disgraceful. A learned man should know better.

Bearing in mind what happened in 1996:

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ContentResources/506.$plit/C_17_photogallery_404_list_photo_list_photo_item_5_photo.jpg

http://blogs.menmedia.co.uk/old/worldcup/menbombaerial.jpg

http://www.allrounddefence.net/images/Arndale%20Centre.jpg

The worst destruction Manchester had seen since the Blitz.

Aye right

[ElwoodBlues 40]

just sums up who runs this country...taigs

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

just sums up who runs this country...taigs

What? In what way?

I wasn't going to post on this thread again but you had to go and make a stupid statement like that.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

What? In what way?

I wasn't going to post on this thread again but you had to go and make a stupid statement like that.

Only somebody with a republican mentality could make such comments, ignoring the ira's devastation of manchester and claiming that bears did worse, worse than anything since the luftwaffe.

Case proven.

You didn't need to bother posting

[Adoniram 1,919]

What? In what way?

I wasn't going to post on this thread again but you had to go and make a stupid statement like that.

And you just had to stir the shite again...works both ways.

You have been given this information on numerous occasions on various threads.

Red Mass(judiciary)

BBC

Daily Record

Political parties

Unions

GCC

All infiltrated and controlled by influential catholics to further their religious beliefs.

For a change why don't you do some digging on the above subjects and prove us wrong ?

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Edit - no, I'm not posting.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Even a Republican wouldn't make such a claim - Only someone who is completely out of touch with reality would say it.

Only someone who is completely out of touch with reality = a republican.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Edit - no, I'm not posting.

Too late.

[bawbaggery 0]

This is an utterly ridiculous statement.

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=203&Itemid=26

[Adoniram 1,919]

Do you really think the United Kingdom is run by Catholics?

Scotland most definately is especially the West of Scotland.

Do a bit of digging on Fahey at the GMP and the Council executives and see what you dig up.

[bawbaggery 0]

The Judiciary - For a start out of the 12 Lord Justices of the Supreme Court, only one Lord Kerr, was a Catholic, and even now it is thought he may not be any more. He has to take an oath towards the Queen, so I would hardly call him a nationalist.

WTF has the supreme court got to do with Scotland.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

WTF has the supreme court got to do with Scotland.

It is the top Court for the UK, including Scotland. Obviously.

[Adoniram 1,919]

The Judiciary - For a start out of the 12 Lord Justices of the Supreme Court, only one Lord Kerr, was a Catholic, and even now it is thought he may not be any more. He has to take an oath towards the Queen, so I would hardly call him a nationalist.

I may be wrong here but this looks like an influential little cabal is it not Mr Rutherford?

http://paulmcsherry.co.uk/43.html

[bawbaggery 0]

It is the top Court for the UK, including Scotland. Obviously.

In case you aint noticed we have our own legal system in Scotland and our own court system, the english supreme court has no jurisdiction in Scotland.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

In case you aint noticed we have our own legal system in Scotland and our own court system, the english supreme court has no jurisdiction in Scotland.

I'm not going to argue with you, just state the fact that it does, over matters of civil law.

You should educate yourself before you post about issues.

You are making yourself look very foolish.

[Adoniram 1,919]

Now, the mathematics is wrong for a start. He hasn't factored in political mobilization of Protestants and Catholics within the Labour party.

The article neglects basic psephology too when discussing the electoral outcomes. Yes Catholics represent 30% of the population of Glasgow, but for start that is the whole population, not the list of eligible voters. Secondly most catholics vote Labour, so too do a hell of a lot of Protestants, and if I were to take a guess more Protestants would vote Labour in Scotland than any of the other parties, therefore it is no suprise that Labour wards together will elect the Provost, and finally, if for example just for stats the membership of the Labour party has a large Catholic group, then it is no suprise that a) most wards have Catholic representatives and b) the provost chosen will be Catholic. Unfortunately, this is democracy, the best out of a bad bunch of systems.

The article is well researched and written, just it hasn't factored enough stuff for me. I'm not trying to bag the VB's either. They do a lot of good work.

Apathy is our biggest enemy not the catholic bigot but ask the members in Jim Devine's constituency how difficult it was to finally get rid of this liar and thief.2 of them post on VB and hit brick wall after brick wall as they tried to protect their own.

And it's not just the Labour Party.....Paul McBride QC and high flying Tory is one of many in the Scottish Party who needed watched.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

You consistently take the opposite opinion or view every time.

3 of the 12 had no previous convictions.

1 was battered by the police and threw a bottle in anger.

Does that merit a 12 month jail sentence when you see what sentences are dished out to other football related offences or similar crimes in our society.

They were political scapegoats and not all of them deserved the sentences they got.

What i and many are saying is that Rangers are regarded as a soft touch these days by those in the media,politics and the judiciary.

If Murray bothered about us or our reputation then the argument put forward is that we wouldn't be treated in the manner we are.

If fans riot deliberately and bring our name in to disrepute then fine they get what they deserve but not all of those 12 deserved the sentences they got.

And if our club had any balls they would have issued a public statement condemning the Judge for his crass and insensitive remarks comparing our visit to the Blitz.

However you will come back with your usual half baked load of shite to justify your stance.

3 of the 12 had no previous convictions - ergo 9 of the 12 HAD previous convictions and thus got heavier sentences!

How do you expect Murray to defend these 12 - and WHY should any rangers fan want these idiots to have a minimium sentence - they dragged 'our' name down! They all pled guilty. There were many more fans there who, depite being treated like shite by GM, kept their sensibilities.

The only thing that I agree on was the crassness of the blitz comments - shocking - and it would not surprise me if the club has written to the judge? Have you ?

To defend these idiots is a half baked and an inappropriate stance and its a shame that you and some other fans are becoming so petpetually offended that you cant see that there is NO excuse for those 12's actions!

[MisterC 12,269]

Not all of the 12 were Rangers fans. The guy from Blackburn is a Blackburn Rovers fan who has previous for football hooliganism so in no way should he be described as a Rangers fan. What about the other ones from near Manchester who were sent down, what are their credentials as Rangers fans along with the Murphy guy from Greenock? The whole thing stinks and reeks of the Manchester establishment closing ranks to suit their own reputations.

[Adoniram 1,919]

3 of the 12 had no previous convictions - ergo 9 of the 12 HAD previous convictions and thus got heavier sentences!

How do you expect Murray to defend these 12 - and WHY should any rangers fan want these idiots to have a minimium sentence - they dragged 'our' name down! They all pled guilty. There were many more fans there who, depite being treated like shite by GM, kept their sensibilities.

The only thing that I agree on was the crassness of the blitz comments - shocking - and it would not surprise me if the club has written to the judge? Have you ?

To defend these idiots is a half baked and an inappropriate stance and its a shame that you and some other fans are becoming so petpetually offended that you cant see that there is NO excuse for those 12's actions!

Did you deliberately avoid this statement

If fans riot deliberately and bring our name in to disrepute then fine they get what they deserve but not all of those 12 deserved the sentences they got.

And as per usual you twist to suit.

Where did i say that Murray should defend the rioters or deliberate thugs?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

the Manchester establishment closing ranks to suit their own reputations.

That bloody 'Establishment' again

[bawbaggery 0]

I'm not going to argue with you, just state the fact that it does, over matters of civil law.

You should educate yourself before you post about issues.

You are making yourself look very foolish.

But it doesn't over criminal law, which is what our fellow fans in mankchester were charged under. Keep moving the goalposts you might score though I doubt it.

I shall now away to the golf at last.

The Supreme Court is the final court of appeal in the UK for civil cases. It hears appeals in criminal cases from England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It hears cases of the greatest public or constitutional importance affecting the whole population.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

But it doesn't over criminal law, which is what our fellow fans in mankchester were charged under. Keep moving the goalposts you might score though I doubt it.

I shall now away to the golf at last.

The Supreme Court is the final court of appeal in the UK for civil cases. It hears appeals in criminal cases from England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It hears cases of the greatest public or constitutional importance affecting the whole population.

That is one of the most illogical posts I have ever seen.

What do you think the words 'over matters of civil law' meant in my post?

No goalposts being moved, my comment was in the context of a sub debate about the influence of RCs in 'the establishment' for the want of a better word.

But even if that were not the case I presume you think that Scots criminal law extends to Manchester?