Boxing and MMA

[Ricky_ 893]

Frochs best win is Pascal. Followed by Bute, Dirrel, Abraham, Johnson & Taylor.

Joe just doesn't have that Calibre on his record.

If the Kessler fight was anywhere but Denmark, Froch would have got the decision.

Joe has 1 win against prime world class opposition. Carl has Multiple.

You talk about mixed bag of performance from Froch, go rewatch Calzaghe v Reid, Thornberry, starie etc. He struggled regularly with less than world class opposition. The same cannot be said about Froch.

Bute "found a way" to get the win against Andrade then sparked him in the rematch.

Calzaghes win over Kessler is better than Frochs win over Pascal, considering that Kessler is a better fighter with a better record.

Calzaghe's 'Ward' was Bhop. He boxed his ears off. I'd still fancy BHop to be too slick and savvy for Froch even now, he'd probably do to Froch what Ward did to him. We'll have to disagree on the Kessler one, Froch lost that fight imo by a couple of rounds. I also had Dirrell winning against him, and Taylor was also well ahead on the cards.

[KERRZO 5]

Calzaghes win over Kessler is better than Frochs win over Pascal, considering that Kessler is a better fighter with a better record.

Calzaghe's 'Ward' was Bhop. He boxed his ears off. I'd still fancy BHop to be too slick and savvy for Froch even now, he'd probably do to Froch what Ward did to him. We'll have to disagree on the Kessler one, Froch lost that fight imo by a couple of rounds. I also had Dirrell winning against him, and Taylor was also well ahead on the cards.

This is a boxing myth about the Taylor fight. 2 judges had Taylor 3 rounds up going into the 11th even though he probably never won a round after about the 5th or 6th when he started to gas. If he had lost a decision that night he would have been robbed. Kessler fight I can only say was very close. In either mans yard they woulda got the decision. Again the scoring was a joke. One judge gave 9 of the first ten rounds to Kessler. I had it a draw. Dirrell fight I was at and again close, Froch was at home and got the nod so probs evens out the Kessler defeat. Ward won clearly, was a shit fight though, think I had it 117-111.

Whatever anyone thinks about boxing, there just isnt enough Carl Froch's out there anymore. A guy who puts it all on the line, never shirks a challenge. I mean who these days would make the first defence of their title away from home against the former undisputed middleweight champion? Just doesnt happen anymore. I for one have more respect for Carl Froch than maybe any other active boxer on the planet right now. The guy is just a fighter.

[bdog19 16]

I doubt he could ever beat him but after he deals with Kessler I'd give him an opportunity to put up a better performance.

I still wouldn't be interested in a fight with Ward no matter how deals with Kessler.

I don't think he'd beat Ward if they fought 3 more times but you never know given that two judges somehow only had the first fight 115-113 for Ward.

[Gash07 26]

Calzaghes win over Kessler is better than Frochs win over Pascal, considering that Kessler is a better fighter with a better record.

Calzaghe's 'Ward' was Bhop. He boxed his ears off. I'd still fancy BHop to be too slick and savvy for Froch even now, he'd probably do to Froch what Ward did to him. We'll have to disagree on the Kessler one, Froch lost that fight imo by a couple of rounds. I also had Dirrell winning against him, and Taylor was also well ahead on the cards.

That's pretty much it from Calzaghes end, Kessler and Hopkins.

Pretty thin in comparisons with Carl Frochs CV. Currently one of the best in all of boxing, regardless of any asterisk you try to add.

Calzaghe could have had a better list of victims, maybe he was that good we'll never know. He lacked the confidence for years, if you haven't already, read his bio, it's painfully clear.

Froch does not suffer from this hindrance, clearly.

[Gash07 26]

Whatever anyone thinks about boxing, there just isnt enough Carl Froch's out there anymore. A guy who puts it all on the line, never shirks a challenge. I mean who these days would make the first defence of their title away from home against the former undisputed middleweight champion? Just doesnt happen anymore. I for one have more respect for Carl Froch than maybe any other active boxer on the planet right now. The guy is just a fighter.

Very true, a throw back to yesteryear. What a sport we'd have if a few of the other top fighters even had a fraction of his balls.

[Ricky_ 893]

maybe he was that good we'll never know.

what don't you know? We know how good Calzaghe was, thats ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, i'm also a big fan of Froch aswell, i was just proving the point that i can assisinate Froch's record as easily as anyone who tries to assisinates Joes. imho though, people confuse Frochs attitude, heart and will (which he has in abundance) with skill, which in comparison to the Wards, Hopkins & Calzaghes of this world, he is a level behind.

[Gash07 26]

what don't you know? We know how good Calzaghe was, thats ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, i'm also a big fan of Froch aswell, i was just proving the point that i can assisinate Froch's record as easily as anyone who tries to assisinates Joes. imho though, people confuse Frochs attitude, heart and will (which he has in abundance) with skill, which in comparison to the Wards, Hopkins & Calzaghes of this world, he is a level behind.

We don't know because in general he fought weak opposition.

The argument is, who has had the better career, skill does not = career.

[Ricky_ 893]

We don't know because in general he fought weak opposition.

The argument is, who has had the better career, skill does not = career.

thats nonsense, we know what level Kessler & Bhop are at. Post Calzaghe both have went on to win world titles in different divisions. How much more of a yard stick do you need than those 2 names?

As for a better career, again, i still favour calzaghe. Froch has had a harder route, i agree, but he has failed where calzaghe has provailed. Some Calzaghe's opponents have been rubbished because hhe's beaten unbeaten fighters who then went on the slide. He schooled Jeff Lacy who was an unbeaten knockout artist and world champion at his weight. But it's easy to rubbish that win off in hindsight because he never recovered from that loss and retired off the back of a couple of defeats to bums. The thing is though, we are all singing the praises of Froch for his win over Bute, but history could easily repeat itself. Bute is a guy who could go and get schooled by ward or Bhop, or KO'd by Kessler and we'll look back and say "froch only beat a paper champion". And if you remove Froch's win over Bute, then Froch's career isnt even close in comparison to joe.

[Gash07 26]

It says a lot when your attempting to pad Calzaghes record out with knockout artist Jeff Lacy lol.

Whichever way you slice it Joe has 2 significant wins, 1 was 40 years old and the other Froch may yet beat if he hasn't already.

The records just don't compare, Joe hid in the Valleys for too long.

[Ricky_ 893]

It says a lot when your attempting to pad Calzaghes record out with knockout artist Jeff Lacy lol.

Whichever way you slice it Joe has 2 significant wins, 1 was 40 years old and the other Froch may yet beat if he hasn't already.

The records just don't compare, Joe hid in the Valleys for too long.

thank you, you just proved my point at laughing off his win over Jeff Lacy, when the hype round that win, at the time, was the same as Frochs win over Bute. At the time Lacy was big time, coming over from US, hyped up and an unbeaten world champ. On 1 hand you might argue Calzaghe ruined him, on the other you could say he was never really good in the first place....

see what im saying here? whats the difference between Lacy & Bute? Both were unbeaten world champions, and if Bute's career goes on the downward from here we could end up looking at it the same light. Same with Mario Veit, he was something like 32W-0L i'm sure when Joe beat him.

[will_1974 204]

Both good boxers, would say Calzaghe was better

[bdog19 16]

Billy Joe Saunders defends his commonwealth title tonight against Bradley Pryce. I really like Saunders.

[Liam_RFC 238]

Some of The boxing chat in here is outstanding could just read it for hours !

[PaddockLoyal 105]

Billy Joe Saunders defends his commonwealth title tonight against Bradley Pryce. I really like Saunders.

Same here. Is this on TV?

*Edit - Forget that, boxingguru.eu has come good.

[bdog19 16]

Frank Buglioni probably has a bigger fan base than Chad Dawson and Andre Ward.

[Gash07 26]

thank you, you just proved my point at laughing off his win over Jeff Lacy, when the hype round that win, at the time, was the same as Frochs win over Bute. At the time Lacy was big time, coming over from US, hyped up and an unbeaten world champ. On 1 hand you might argue Calzaghe ruined him, on the other you could say he was never really good in the first place....

see what im saying here? whats the difference between Lacy & Bute? Both were unbeaten world champions, and if Bute's career goes on the downward from here we could end up looking at it the same light. Same with Mario Veit, he was something like 32W-0L i'm sure when Joe beat him.

Proved your point? What that Jeff lacy was a pile of pish and Bute might be? That's not a point that's a piece of total speculation.

On the off chance than Bute is as bad as Lacy, it makes little difference to the fact that Froch has had a better career.

[PaddockLoyal 105]

Good display from Saunders last night. Bit disappointed he couldn't get Pryce out of there but he showed his boxing skill over the full 12 rounds. Good experience for him.

Buglioni's opponent had me in stitches. What a guy.

[Ricky_ 893]

Proved your point? What that Jeff lacy was a pile of pish and Bute might be? That's not a point that's a piece of total speculation.

On the off chance than Bute is as bad as Lacy, it makes little difference to the fact that Froch has had a better career.

The point is, fighters don't have the benefit of hindsight when they take on fights.

Jeff Lacy was a heavy favourite going into the fight with Calzaghe.

James toney before the fight: "Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy is a mismatch. Lacy is going to destroy that boy. He's too strong, he's a fighter - he's proved himself."

Carl Froch before the fight: "he doesn't look as sharp and tough as he used to, and I think Lacy will get him out of there within the distance."

and the reaction....

"Joe Calzaghe annihilated America's coming force with one of the finest displays by a British fighter in years to unify the world super-middleweight titles in Manchester."

"Calzaghe claimed a completely one-sided points victory over his big rival Jeff Lacy - who had come to the fight with his own unbeaten record and a major reputation.

The Welshman hammered Lacy from the first moment to the last, not losing a round on any of the three judges' scorecards as he claimed 119-107 (twice) and 119-105 verdicts to add Lacy's IBF title to the WBO belt he already owned."

"Now the world will bow to Calzaghe as one of the stars of his sport today and one of the greatest super-middleweight champions of any era.

The emergence of the much-hyped Lacy had given Calzaghe the perfect opportunity to stake his claim to greatness by dethroning a man labelled across the Atlantic as the next big thing."

http://www.sportinglife.com/boxing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=boxing/06/03/05/BOXING_Calzaghe_Lead.html

When Calzaghe faught Lacy, Lacy was more hyped and a bigger favourite going into this unification fight than Bute was going into the Froch fight. The media praise was also much greater when he wiped the floor with him.

But over time this win has became rubbished as 'lacy was never good anyway'. It's a no win situation for Joe, if he didn't wipe the floor with Lacy then we'd all be saying how a prime LAcy would have KO'd him if Joe took the fight.

fuck it, i'll say it, Bute is pish aswell then. His best win is probably fuckin Brian Magee. He only ever faught out of Canada, and he got knocked out by Andrade whos a glorified bum. An over the hill johnson who has 15 losses on his record is the only guy he's won thats in the top 10 of the division. He's chinny and can't recover from big shots. Carl Froch himself said many times in the interviews building up to the fight "bute is hyped up but has really faced that top level fighter? is he really at that level? We'll find out on saturday night..." Looks like Carl Froch answered that question if Bute is a top level fighter or not....

[Gash07 26]

Of course fighters don't have the benefit of hindsight, I completely agree. That means that Joe gets credit for finally manning up and taking what was perceived to be a test, a real test. Unfortunately when assessing a fighters career hindsight is legitimately used to gauge the value of a victory. With respect, only a fool would argue to the contrary.

It works both ways though, like when Pascal beat Dawson. If Lacy had went on to have a glittering career it would have reflected positively on Calzaghe. Again, unfortunately, Lacy was proven to be a hype job without one notable win on his record, hence the victory is correctly devalued.

In Butes case we don't have that benefit, I very much doubt he'll turn out as bad as poor old Jeff but we'll wait and see, like I said, it doesn't make a great deal of difference to the overall argument anyway.

[bdog19 16]

Fairly decent card on Box Nation tonight.

Vusi Malinga v Leo Santa Cruz for the IBF bantamweight world championship

Austin Trout v Delvin Rodriguez for the WBA world light middleweight belt

Peter Quillin v Winky Wright

Antonio Tarver v Lateef Kayode

Looking forward to Trout v Rodriguez, pick of the fights for me.

[bdog19 16]

[PaddockLoyal 105]

I know everyone seems to hate him but I can't help but like Chisora.

[PaddockLoyal 105]

This video update from Tyson Fury is also pretty funny.

[bdog19 16]

I know everyone seems to hate him but I can't help but like Chisora.

I don't mind him too much to be honest. Aye he's a bit of a cock but whatever you look at it he's entertaining.

[nicky 3]

the EBU has voted to throw luxemberg board out of its organisation if it continues with this fight.