mgers 1 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Excellent work pal, get them pumped!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 It doesn't work if company money is invested in the scheme. Celtic would pay the £40k per week in wages and deduct the correct amount of tax. The player/manager/whatever would put maybe £2k into this scheme, and get a tax refund on £20k of earnings.There are schemes set up by the Chancellor to encourage people to invest in things that will create employment by giving out tax refunds to people that do it. If you genuinely invest your money in such a business, I have no problem with that, but these schemes abuse the relief. Th was another scheme doing the rounds that misused gift aid relief for charity donations, but the guy selling that scheme went to prison for it.The schemes Martin O'Niel was involved in have already been shut down by HMRC, and Martin O'Neil will have received a large tax bill with penalties and interest. As Celtic paid the tax on that money, they won't be asked to pay anything. You can't pay EBT money into that sort of scheme, it has to be taxed earnings, otherwise you can't claim a refund of tax you haven't paid. Of course, that might not stop some people trying, and they will be in bigger trouble.Whilst i agree with most of this, and that "IF" operated correctly they "COULD" be ok, the purpose of this is 3 fold1) As these schemes were all set up by players/managers/directors when at Celtic then the exploitation of the loopholes may have been as a result of advice from club tax advisors. This should be made public.2) As you rightly say, some people have received large bills for this as HMRC didnt necessarily agree they were being used correctly (sound familiar)3) The sheer hypocrisy shown by many fans on the other side around "tax dodging" and how they think its abhorent that Rangers and our players looked for loopholes to take money out the public purse. Well have some of it back and lets see if they criticise their own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbryce 63 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 1338426136' post='1060088011']Sure, they may have avoided paying tax, but didnt they say that investing in film companies was a legal way of avoiding tax?If you genuinely invest money in a film producer, that is a legal way of avoiding tax in the same way that putting money in a pension or an ISA is a legal way of avoiding tax.However a £100k "investment" that only leaves you £10k out of pocket and only sees a very nominal amount invested in film production is not a genuine investment.In a genuine investment, HMRC will end up with more tax than they paid out in refunds to investors. The staff working on it will pay tax on their wages, and the govnment won't have to pay out unemployment benefits to them. Suppliers will pay more tax on their additional profits from supplying stuff for the film, and if the film is a success, the investors will pay tax on their share of profits and capital gains on the investment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillete 1,338 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Has anyone sent this to HMRC ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmiston Drive 3,846 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Whether its true or not, they are half breed hypocrites.And the other half is made up by 25% chunt and 25% bastard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkie 201 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Good work from my findings hope it helps.If anyone can prove they received a wage or any payment as a director of these companies they are fucked and there is also a rule about associates being in the same company.Also if more than 5 million was recieved in a fund in a year it's wrong.Also there is rules about the company must invest so if these so called film companies didn't do anything that is a problem as well.I downloaded the full rules last night but they are on my laptop so i will post them up later.Sutton looks like he may have had one as well, Stewart Milne is in one as well.Haven't checked other teams but wouldn't be suprised if they were all at it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris182 6,289 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Love for this to be a goer Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Bear 1 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hate to burst your bubble, but all footballers are involved in these schemes and it is a non-story.The schemes are part of the Enterprise Investment Scheme and a number of funds found innovative ways of getting round them.Even our players were involed.Barry Ferguson:ECLIPSE FILM PARTNERS NO. 9 LLP 4/4/2006You do know Octopus run a lot of non-film related type schemes like this?I guarantee you I could find 100 footballers with investments in these. Unfortunately there is nothing in this story and that is why no one will pick up on it.Just google wayne rooney and film investment and you will see he made investments similar. So has Ferdinand, Keane, Cole. The list is endless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkie 201 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Your right if done properly, but if the investment is used just to avoid tax then it's against the law.Some RBS execs were arrested a couple of months ago for this reason, there is all sorts of rules about using them and what the companies should and shouldn't do.There was also something in the papers about the HMRC might be going after EPL players who or were using them.HMRC recent case victory.HMRC versus Eclipse FilmsA Tribunal has dismissed the appeal of Eclipse Film Partners against HMRC's decision that it was not carrying on a trade that allowed it to qualify for E.I.S. status. 289 wealthy individuals invested £50 million, hoping to receive a £117 million tax refund. £44 million was given to the promoter of the scheme and £6 million went to Disney.Barclays Bank circulated £790 million between various Disney companies utilising a zero-capital weighted basis to engender an economic loss of £50 million. The idea was that this loss would be counter-balanced by a tax refund claimed on a 10 year pre-payment of interest covering the first period of a 20 year cash flow projection.Revenue & Customs argued that the Eclipse plan was nothing more than a way of offering investors a large amount of tax relief, rather than carrying out any trade.HMRC has been allocated nearly a billion pounds to crackdown on such complex tax avoidance schemes. They are focussing on closing down aggressive E.I.S. schemes which deny the UK vital funding by getting around the will of Parliament. The Court was told that 40 Eclipse and many similar EIS film schemes are being investigated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Thats the same Eric Riley of Celtic FC who sits on an SFA committee... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbryce 63 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hate to burst your bubble, but all footballers are involved in these schemes and it is a non-story.The schemes are part of the Enterprise Investment Scheme and a number of funds found innovative ways of getting round them.Even our players were involed.Barry Ferguson:ECLIPSE FILM PARTNERS NO. 9 LLP 4/4/2006You do know Octopus run a lot of non-film related type schemes like this?I guarantee you I could find 100 footballers with investments in these. Unfortunately there is nothing in this story and that is why no one will pick up on it.Just google wayne rooney and film investment and you will see he made investments similar. So has Ferdinand, Keane, Cole. The list is endless.The fact that "everyone" is doing it doesn't make it a non-story. What it does mean is that when the press report on it, as they have done, there are much more interesting and famous names to list than some Celtic player or manager that nobody outside of Scotland has heard of. Everyone's heard of Jeremy Paxman, Wayne Rooney and Sven Goran Erikson. Paul Hartson isn't so well known.The relevance for us is that if the people who want us punished for tax evasion have themselves been involved in tax evasion, that makes them hypocrites. They will of course say that it is none of Celtic's business what the staff do with their taxed wages after they receive them, and that defence would work in the courts should they ever end up there. Morally, it is less certain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbryce 63 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hate to burst your bubble, but all footballers are involved in these schemes and it is a non-story.The schemes are part of the Enterprise Investment Scheme and a number of funds found innovative ways of getting round them.Even our players were involed.Barry Ferguson:ECLIPSE FILM PARTNERS NO. 9 LLP 4/4/2006You do know Octopus run a lot of non-film related type schemes like this?I guarantee you I could find 100 footballers with investments in these. Unfortunately there is nothing in this story and that is why no one will pick up on it.Just google wayne rooney and film investment and you will see he made investments similar. So has Ferdinand, Keane, Cole. The list is endless.Also, here's Ally McCoist's list of directorshipsTHE EAST KILBRIDE COMMUNITY TRUST Active MITCHELL'S LIVESTOCK LIMITED Active RT 1872 LIMITED Active M.A.D. SPORTS MANAGEMENT LIMITED Active (Director Resigned 09/01/2007)CSM SCOTLAND LIMITED Active (Director Resigned 15/09/2009)THE SPORTS BUSINESS LIMITED Active (Director Resigned 15/09/2009)Don't think there is anything dodgy there.Here's Neil Lennon's listTHE MAMJAM TECHNOLOGY PLATFORM PARTNERSHIP LLP Active THE CASEDIRECTOR TECHNOLOGY PARTNERSHIP LLP Active INGENIOUS FILM PARTNERS 2 LLP Active (LLP Member Resigned 06/04/2011)All of them look dodgy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,600 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hate to burst your bubble, but all footballers are involved in these schemes and it is a non-story.The schemes are part of the Enterprise Investment Scheme and a number of funds found innovative ways of getting round them.Even our players were involed.Barry Ferguson:ECLIPSE FILM PARTNERS NO. 9 LLP 4/4/2006You do know Octopus run a lot of non-film related type schemes like this?I guarantee you I could find 100 footballers with investments in these. Unfortunately there is nothing in this story and that is why no one will pick up on it.Just google wayne rooney and film investment and you will see he made investments similar. So has Ferdinand, Keane, Cole. The list is endless.Outed. its what these threads do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkie 201 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 some of the basic rulesEnterprise Investment Scheme (EIS)BenefitsTax Breaks for Investors 30% Income Tax Credit against income of current or previous year up to £1 million 500k in any one tax year Tax relief is given on a maximum of £1 million invested No Capital Gains Tax on disposal if shares held for 3 years Deferral Relief for earlier Capital Gains Capital Loss Relief against income tax, rather than current and future years’ Capital GainsConditionsQualifying Trading Company Must be unquoted Must be a standalone company or the parent company of a group Must carry on qualifying trade carried on wholly or mainly (80%) in the UK Max Gross Assets £15 million from 6.4.2012. Fewer than 250 employees Not more than 20% of activities consist of excluded tradesApplication of Funds Funds raised by Share issue must be: Applied for purpose of Business Activity 100% of funds used within 24 months of Share issue, or commencement of trade, if later Used to fund a qualifying activity No more than £5m raised in any 12 month period from investments made under EIS, Venture Capital Trust and Corporate Venturing SchemeQualifying Individuals UK Tax Payer Subscribe for cash in “full risk” ordinary shares with no preferential rights. Some relaxation under consultation. Need not be UK Resident If connected with the company income tax relief and CGT disposal relief are not available, however, Capital Loss Relief and Deferral Relief remain available. Directors, employees and their associates are treated as connected Individuals who, with their associates own more than 30% of the shares Non exec directors are not automatically connected, if unpaid.Procedure Advance assurance for EIS status sought from HMRC (see below for detailed information on assurance applications) Subscribers receive issued shares Company completes and submits EIS 1 form to HMRC confirming the details of the subscription HMRC will consider the EIS 1 and if satisfied grant permission for EIS 3 certificates to be issued, which entitle the subscribers to claim the relevant tax reliefs. Company issues EIS 3 certificates Subscribers claim EIS relief as part of their Income Tax Self AssessmentAssurance applications must contain confirmation that: The company can be expected to be a qualifying company The shares to be issued will be eligible shares The shares are to be issued to raise money for a qualifying business activity The money raised is to be employed only by companies that satisfy the rules of the schemeWhen making its request for an assurance the company should supply primary facts and confirmations and include all of the following documents: A copy of the latest available accounts of the company, and of any subsidiary company, Details of all trading or other activities to be carried on by the company and any subsidiary, and a note of which company or companies will use the money raised, The approximate sum the company hopes to raise, and how it will be used, Confirmation that the company expects to be able to complete the declaration on form EIS1 in due course, A copy of the latest draft of any prospectus or similar document to be issued to potential investors, An up-to-date copy of the Memorandum and Articles of Association of the company and of any subsidiary, and details of any changes to be made, Details of any subscription agreement or other side agreement to be entered into by the shareholders Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54andcounting 627 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hate to burst your bubble, but all footballers are involved in these schemes and it is a non-story.The schemes are part of the Enterprise Investment Scheme and a number of funds found innovative ways of getting round them.Even our players were involed.Barry Ferguson:ECLIPSE FILM PARTNERS NO. 9 LLP 4/4/2006You do know Octopus run a lot of non-film related type schemes like this?I guarantee you I could find 100 footballers with investments in these. Unfortunately there is nothing in this story and that is why no one will pick up on it.Just google wayne rooney and film investment and you will see he made investments similar. So has Ferdinand, Keane, Cole. The list is endless.What a sad prick you are! this is a forum for bears and you are a tim!!! Just fuck off and get a life Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,600 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 What a sad prick you are! this is a forum for bears and you are a tim!!! Just fuck off and get a life They spend all their time talking about us you would not have known they won a tainted title recently all they talk about is Rangers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrT 173 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Credit of course goes to the person who found this but i thought this was worthy of an OP. Any new finds, please PM me and i will add to it Bastards!!!!!These guys need to be punished, strip them of titles, fine them millions, put them out of business and let them rot in hell...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hate to burst your bubble, but all footballers are involved in these schemes and it is a non-story.The schemes are part of the Enterprise Investment Scheme and a number of funds found innovative ways of getting round them.Even our players were involed.Barry Ferguson:ECLIPSE FILM PARTNERS NO. 9 LLP 4/4/2006You do know Octopus run a lot of non-film related type schemes like this?I guarantee you I could find 100 footballers with investments in these. Unfortunately there is nothing in this story and that is why no one will pick up on it.Just google wayne rooney and film investment and you will see he made investments similar. So has Ferdinand, Keane, Cole. The list is endless.I will repeat, just in case you missed it."IF" operated correctly they "COULD" be ok, however the purpose of this is 3 fold1) As these schemes were all set up by players/managers/directors when at Celtic then the exploitation of the loopholes may have been as a result of advice from club tax advisors. This should be made public.2) As you rightly say, some people have received large bills for this as HMRC didnt necessarily agree they were being used correctly (sound familiar)3) The sheer hypocrisy shown by many fans on the other side around "tax dodging" and how they think its abhorent that Rangers and our players looked for loopholes to take money out the public purse. Well have some of it back and lets see if they criticise their own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla 38 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hate to burst your bubble, but all footballers are involved in these schemes and it is a non-story.The schemes are part of the Enterprise Investment Scheme and a number of funds found innovative ways of getting round them.Even our players were involed.Barry Ferguson:ECLIPSE FILM PARTNERS NO. 9 LLP 4/4/2006You do know Octopus run a lot of non-film related type schemes like this?I guarantee you I could find 100 footballers with investments in these. Unfortunately there is nothing in this story and that is why no one will pick up on it.Just google wayne rooney and film investment and you will see he made investments similar. So has Ferdinand, Keane, Cole. The list is endless.Rumbled, Timmy. The moral highground has been lost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers Unite 11 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Some people in the media who had no awareness of this have been given this thread and other links by us.we shall see if there is a story here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiadreamin52 339 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Can we expect Mark Daly intrepid BBC investigative journalist to do a programme on this soon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkie 201 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 No but he will do a 2 hour special on any Rangers players being found to be using them.I wonder if Celtic paid directly into these to give their players and Directors a higher tax allowance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,286 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I'm sure there's plenty of muck out there that we can lay on them and other clubs but I repeat nobody outside of these forums is interested.We're on the hook and like the big JC we're paying for every other cunts sinsThis is the annoying thing it is very much a one way street so far as the mhedia are concerned Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangersxfc 265 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 do we really believe juninho paulista was the only cunt at celtic on EBT ......................we ain't buying it lawwell Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,286 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It does seem strange that they would do it once and once only Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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