Vanguard Bears - just who are they?

[Loyalist_RFC 222]

I have a dad from Wales (Liverpool fan) who wasn't a Rangers fan. I was allowed to pick my own team with zip influence involved.

Well then why make comment apon something you know nothing about.

[beattie72 170]

And? Would some change/evolution affect The Rangers brand? Could it bring in new avenues of support?

We're at a pivotal point in our history now, and we can help choose how we can rebuild the club.

Yes we can. By defending OUR club against all those who will/are/can cause(ing) it harm.

[Stoorie 1,088]

So it's a divisive group?

Supporting a football club automatically makes you part of a divisive group. The shite that the sub-divisions leaders of our support spout is sometimes cringeworthy.

But sometimes they come up with things that need backing to the hilt.

Out of all the sub-groups, über fans and self proclaimed spokesmen the VB have IMO, put the views of the majority of fans out there in the MSM better than most of us rattling away on a keyboard after a few beers!

[Gillete 1,338]

Good post mate, I enjoyed reading that

The VB are fantastic and I can't praise them enough unlike other so called fans who do nothing but criticise and do fuck all to defend our club

[outlaw69uk 123]

From threads past I feel you certainly represent a lot of views that would be supported on the site, and therefore fit in easier.

I can easily fit in with serious discussion. I've done it on here many a time and could hold most in a debate. I enjoy RM for the mixture of that and light hearted banter. Trust me, I've got no interest in a site where I can't get access to without the recommendation of another. I know the excuse used is to keep out fans of other clubs, but more efficient moderating of new members can work. It smacks of complete elitism to me.

It's elitism if you are outside looking in perhaps, but no, that's not the case. What is important is something called trust. You have read some of what is done, and you have of course seen the articles. Watching a new member simply isn't on, as privacy and trust (again) is paramount. Rather than leaks right left and centre that could let things out of the bag before time

It's also not just a website, people know each other, and the relationships aren't reserved to online

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Good, I have no interest in defending him either, just thought I would clarify some points as to why he is relevant.

Craig whyte is "one of us", and like Dingwall (albeit on a grander scale) robbed us and the club. Being a rangers fan doesn't mean you deserve to be defended, and in many ways, makes it worse to act that way.

I don't think the forum itself is alienated, just chubs and his nearest and dearest. Plenty on there, like here, seem to like a lot of what we do

I wasn't talking about alienating Follow Follow, I was talking about alienating the large section of Rangers fans who have no interest in the quasi-political or religious undertones of the OP.

[Gaz92 966]

Well then why make comment apon something you know nothing about.

Yes, I haven't lived in Glasgow for 20 years, I haven't attended every home game for the past 6 years, I haven't seen what traditions are, I haven't met countless Rangers fans who have similar traditions (and countless who don't). I think I pretty much know the script by now thanks.

I think our club can be more. I don't challenge anyone's political or religious views, but can our club be built stronger without a heavy reliance on either? I believe it can.

[outlaw69uk 123]

And? Would some change/evolution affect The Rangers brand? Could it bring in new avenues of support?

We're at a pivotal point in our history now, and we can help choose how we can rebuild the club.

I would just answer your question by asking, have you seem the media coverage and interest worldwide in us?

Have you ever thought that culture and tradition are a big reason as to why we are so popular worldwide? It makes us different from your run of the mill club.

Rangers don't need to change what is ingrained, we need an actual marketing strategy and brand awareness, we need presence in areas with high footfall, and we need to be savvier in our contract negotiations and sponsorship deals. It's been criminally woeful for years

[Leeds_Bear 8,110]

Good post mate, I enjoyed reading that

The VB are fantastic and I can't praise them enough unlike other so called fans who do nothing but criticise and do fuck all to defend our club

Couldn't agree more . If people put half as much effort into defending our club as they do questioning, of all people, VB's motives, we would all be a lot better off.

You don't like VB and the way they operate? Ok fine, how about you go and do something constructive with your time rather than spouting utter shite about a group of supporters who are just trying to defend our club.

[Gaz92 966]

It's elitism if you are outside looking in perhaps, but no, that's not the case. What is important is something called trust. You have read some of what is done, and you have of course seen the articles. Watching a new member simply isn't on, as privacy and trust (again) is paramount. Rather than leaks right left and centre that could let things out of the bag before time

It's also not just a website, people know each other, and the relationships aren't reserved to online

So tell me, how do the VB build their circle of "trust"? I'm sure there's many out there that don't know anyone on the inside, but would be more than intrigued to see what the site has to offer.

[minstral 5,375]

In my younger days Rangers were a community, a way of life with a strong identity. Now some new fans see it as a sporting event, but the majority of our fans, it is all about our identity. It is the PC mob who were led by Murray and Bain who have tried to make our fans ashamed of our Traditions and Culture.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I wasn't talking about alienating Follow Follow, I was talking about alienating the large section of Rangers fans who have no interest in the quasi-political or religious undertones of the OP.

My error then. See my rather long reply to bp9 for my take on it then.

In the op, much of it shows that a lot of work is done in many different areas, including that. I doubt it would alienate people, as most would simply go "hmmm" at the parts that weren't for them, and take an interest in the parts they were interested in. It is all relevant though

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

My error then. See my rather long reply to bp9 for my take on it then.

In the op, much of it shows that a lot of work is done in many different areas, including that. I doubt it would alienate people, as most would simply go "hmmm" at the parts that weren't for them, and take an interest in the parts they were interested in. It is all relevant though

You only need to glance through this thread to see that people are alienated by it.

[Gaz92 966]

Supporting a football club automatically makes you part of a divisive group. The shite that the sub-divisions leaders of our support spout is sometimes cringeworthy.

But sometimes they come up with things that need backing to the hilt.

Out of all the sub-groups, über fans and self proclaimed spokesmen the VB have IMO, put the views of the majority of fans out there in the MSM better than most of us rattling away on a keyboard after a few beers!

It's difficult to take their principle of defending Rangers fans seriously if it only appeals to a certaim brand of Rangers fan, and what I can see from the outside, is that they barely give a toss about someone who doesn't fit this mould.

[outlaw69uk 123]

So tell me, how do the VB build their circle of "trust"? I'm sure there's many out there that don't know anyone on the inside, but would be more than intrigued to see what the site has to offer.

I can only really speak for myself, but, it surely can't be too hard to arrange to meet other rangers fans, if you are a rangers fan? Games? In the pub before or after? There's a website, email admin and ask? Many newer members I believe were met during the bbc and sfa protests

Where there is a will and all that

[outlaw69uk 123]

You only need to glance through this thread to see that people are alienated by it.

Bluepeter9 doesn't count

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Bluepeter9 doesn't count

Of course he does, All Rangers fans count.

[WVB 2,560]

The thing is, and you can obviously choose to take this on board or not, the club and fans are under attack, and there are political agendas behind it, as well as deep seated religious hatred of our club by people who believe us to have an anti-catholic bias, and want us closed down altogether.

We have to meet these people head on, and face them down with hard facts. They are hate-filled bigots, with a non-sporting agenda, and thats how we must react. We are larger in number than the enemy, smarter, and ultimately, in the right.

If I have to batter sense into someone with a hardback copy of The Bible, so be it. I'll use it to roll a joint when I am finished. As long as Rangers are ok, I'm good.

[Gaz92 966]

I can only really speak for myself, but, it surely can't be too hard to arrange to meet other rangers fans, if you are a rangers fan? Games? In the pub before or after? There's a website, email admin and ask? Many newer members I believe were met during the bbc and sfa protests

Where there is a will and all that

Can't buy it myself. If I had to email an admin or someone I didn't know to become a member of a website it most certainly wouldn't be for me straight away.

[Rangers#1 5,459]

_{No Surrender}

[Adoniram 1,919]

Out of curiosity, is there a place in the VB for someone who isn't a Unionist, a Monarchist, and not interested in defending traditions such as the Orange Order?

Are there many on your forum that don't stand for these things?

None that I know of because all the members have one or more of these at the heart of what they believe.

I am a proud Unionist, Protestant, Royalist and most of all a Rangers fan. I am not an Orangeman but I sympathise with their cause and beliefs.

I am not going to decry any Rangers fan who doesn't believe everything I do but I cannot get my head round fans who believe in none of the above and actively want rid of our heritage and traditions.

VB is more than a football website and this is perhaps the part that others have difficulty in understanding. We get involved in politics, we fight our enemies head on. We defend Rangers at every turn and we believe passionately in the traditions our club is famous for.

If others don't believe in them then fine but don't ridicule or belittle others who do and will defend them to their last breath.

Rangers is and always has been much much more than just a football club.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I'm beginning to think WVB's a closet christian.

[outlaw69uk 123]

It's difficult to take their principle of defending Rangers fans seriously if it only appeals to a certaim brand of Rangers fan, and what I can see from the outside, is that they barely give a toss about someone who doesn't fit this mould.

With respect, you will find it difficult to take the principle difficult to understand, if you don't understand it.

To explain, the club comes first. As far as the fans, my view is that this started under murrays refusal to stick up for the support in general, regardless. The club under him did nothing, and allowed the bheasts and the msm to portray ALL rangers fans as sectarian hate filled bigots, with no reply. VB reply! Simple as that.

Individually I know many stories about helping individual fans in a large number of areas, not sure how much is public domain

Vb are well represented, and often driving, fan group meetings with representation from many different groups and organisations. Would be folly to suggest exclusions as you do.

[BEARGER 339]

What is this way of life the VB are protecting?

[Loyalist_RFC 222]

Yes, I haven't lived in Glasgow for 20 years, I haven't attended every home game for the past 6 years, I haven't seen what traditions are, I haven't met countless Rangers fans who have similar traditions (and countless who don't). I think I pretty much know the script by now thanks.

I think our club can be more. I don't challenge anyone's political or religious views, but can our club be built stronger without a heavy reliance on either? I believe it can.

Rangers are more than a club.

Its an Institution a way of life.

I think you should say all of what you said above to any Londonderry man women and child who cant even wear their beloved football teams top in their city centre.

Then you come back to me and say that