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Beggars and the Co-op


Gaffbear

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It's getting about now. I saw this about a month ago but never heard anyone ever talking about it. Now i've seen about 4 3 or 4 threads on it on here.

Funny how i've not seen anything in the media about it though. :rolleyes:

Obviously saving the front page for the next little bit of Rangers tittle tattle

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It's getting about now. I saw this about a month ago but never heard anyone ever talking about it. Now i've seen about 4 3 or 4 threads on it on here.

Funny how i've not seen anything in the media about it though. :rolleyes:

Begining to heat up a bit. MPs debating it in Parliament last night. labour have been criticised for getting cheap loans at 4%. Celtic were given them at 1.65%. Think their after John Reid. Might get interesting.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2514682/Co-op-Bank-slammed-cheap-loans-Celtic-Football-Club.html?

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http://footballtaxha...e-bank-scandal/

I don't know if this has already been posted.

Apologies if it has.

I know for certain that about 80% of the facts posted there are either incorrect or misrepresented. For example, 4% isn't a "preferential" rate at all. It's actually on the high side compared to the rest of their portfolio.

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I know for certain that about 80% of the facts posted there are either incorrect or misrepresented. For example, 4% isn't a "preferential" rate at all. It's actually on the high side compared to the rest of their portfolio.

I am all for it and hopefully the person(s) behind the expose are not the same ones as the RTC , as we know how accurate they were , not!

Transparency is the name of the game surely and all , and I include CFC fans , would welcome a bit if scrutiny on this matter to be sure all is correct.lets

What about the land deals? All kosha? Do you think GCC would even have a small leaning toward CFC? Convenient or coincidence how things kinda fit .....

We should get Mark Daly and Alex Thomson to do a doc on this evolving story. Be good to keep it going and going.... Not like them to miss an opportunity to investigate forensically a Glasgow based Football club., is it?

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I know for certain that about 80% of the facts posted there are either incorrect or misrepresented. For example, 4% isn't a "preferential" rate at all. It's actually on the high side compared to the rest of their portfolio.

Which 20 % are ok then? How do YOU know for CERTAIN, that 80%of the facts are incorrect? Do you work for the Co-op? If so, shame on you for giving C****c such low interest rates, or for even entertaining the bastards at all. I've been reading about this stuff for months now. A guy, calling himself PZJ, posts comments on Bill McMurdo's Blog, only reason I go there now, who has been writing to GCC using FOI requests to get info on sites being sold to sellick on the cheap, & then sellick using the land bought cheaply, as securities for loans. ie. GCC sell sellick land for £700 000, then sellick go to Co-op Bank for a £5m loan, using the land bought from GCC as collateral. Which means that the Co-op must value the land at £5million at the very least to give a loan. This could be regarded as Shellick getting "State Aid" which is against some EU laws ( don't know which laws tho')

There are quite a few Bears looking into the deals sellick have done, & hopefully, there will be a full enquiry, because this could be looked on as "Gaining an Unfair Advantage" . I am, of course, only interested in this due to "Sporting Integrity"........

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Here is a C&P regarding CFC & GCC

Jim fraser says:

November 27, 2013 at 1:40 pm

sent HM treasury and Scottish Ministers and newspapers

Hi

I’m emailing regarding concerns I have about various land transactions between the then Labour controlled public bodies Glasgow City Council, Greater Glasgow Health Board and Glasgow Celtic Football Club PLC and the Co-op bank

it appears even on the most cursory inspection of the information listed below that there would appear to be some serious questions of concern regarding the misuse of public monies and potentially fraudulent activity involving the bodies mentioned.

it would seem clear from the information below that either, Glasgow City Council through incompetence or otherwise wrongly valued these lands to the benefit of Glasgow Celtic PLC? or, the Co-op bank placed a value far higher than their true worth in order to facilitate a soft loan to benefit Glasgow Celtic PLC to the detriment of their shareholders and other customers

I ask that you investigate these land transactions and the nature of the financial borrowing associated with these transactions as a matter of urgency in order that the citizens of Glasgow can have confidence in their elected representatives and the professionalism, integrity and impartiality of the British banking system

1. the sale of Westhorn recreational grounds located in the east end of Glasgow, independently valued at around £5m pounds and sold to Glasgow Celtic PLC by Glasgow City Council for £675,000 on the grounds that geotechnical reports indicated abnormal ground conditions on the site, the aforementioned geotechnical report was used as the basis for a £3.75m discount on the land value being offered to Celtic PLC

It appears on questioning this transaction under FOI legislation, Glasgow City Council don’t hold any record of any such geotechnical report, which is quite frankly astonishing given the amount of taxpayer money involved in this discounted sale.

it is also worth noting that on the very day this land was purchased by Celtic PLC, they also raised a mortgage on the purchased land with the Co-Op bank http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/celtics-mortgages-to-co-operative-bank-and-glasgow-city-council-westhorn-training-ground/, the value of the mortgage raised would appear to be quite considerably higher than the purchase price paid by Celtic PLC, which raises the questions, was this land fairly valued by GCC? did the Council surveyor provide a true valuation? why did the Co-Op independent surveyor place a far higher value (up to ten times higher) on this land.

This appears to have been a closed sale with no open marketing of the land to achieve the best return for taxpayers.

GCC have a security on Westhorn that would require Celtic PLC to pay GCC 50% of any profit form any future sell on by Celtic PLC, this security expires in 2014 and as such I feel this “deal” needs to be investigated urgently

2. Land around Celtic Stadium, namely, Janefield St, Kinloch St and Dalriada St which Glasgow City Council demolished at considerable cost to taxpayers with part of the reasons given that redevelopment of Celtic’s Stadium blocked out natural daylight and interfered with tv reception to existing houses on these streets, this land was the sold to Gasgow Celtic PLC for around £250,000 I believe, council minutes note the sale price reflected that the land was useful only for “football related uses”, however, Glasgow City Council gave Glasgow Celtic PLC planning permission to build residential dwellings on this land less than two years later as part of Celtic’s Masterplan for the Celtic triangle. as you may be aware land with residential possibilities will be placed at a far higher value than land only useful for “football related purposes”

Again this was a closed deal between Glasgow City Council and Celtic PLC with no open marketing of the land to achieve full value for the taxpayer.

3. London Road School opposite Celtic Stadium is another very strange deal involving Glasgow City Council and Glasgow Celtic PLC, it would appear Glasgow City Council have allowed this B listed school to fall into disrepair against the wishes of Historic Scotland http://billmcmurdo.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/eir-4486102-london-rd-2.pdf in order to demolish it and facilitate Celtic PLC wish to develop this site as part of the Masterplan for the Celtic Triangle.

FOI requests to Glasgow City council show that Celtic PLC have an option to purchase this land at an agreed price of around £300,000, this option lasts until 2014 after which time Glasgow City Council have placed a value of £1 on it.. Celtic PLC seemed to herald in the national press and TV last year that they had purchased this land and were developing it as a museum and sports outlet and café, however, FOI request from Glasgow City Council have stated that Celtic PLC had not yet taken up the option to buy this land. http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/london-road-primary-school-more-glasgow-city-council-favours-for-celtic/

Glasgow City Council are currently in the process of demolishing this B listed building against the wishes of Historic Scotland, strangely though submission to the council for permission to demolish this building appear to name Celtic PLC as the owner? It would seem clear that Glasgow City Council intend this site to go to Celtic PLC as a cleared site, whether for £300,000 or £1, it would seem Land Prices inside the Celtic Triangle disappear in much the same way ships disappear in the Bermuda triangle

Again this is a closed deal between these two parties, with no open marketing of the land to achieve the best possible value to the taxpayer.

on all the three above transactions between Glasgow City Council and Glasgow Celtic PLC the Council state they could not show these parcels of land were marketed fully on the open market to achieve best value for the taxpayers of Glasgow because on each occasion they had a ” prior contractual agreement” with Celtic PLC

4. Greater Glasgow Health Board under the sole authorization of CEO a Mr Tom Divers sold land around the old Lennox Castle Hospital – 48 acres to Celtic PLC for £493,000 in 2006, given that a single detached house in that location would easily fetch £493,000 this would seem an extraordinarily cheap price for the said land. http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/lennoxtown-sale-approved-solely-by-tom-divers-ceo-greater-glasgow-health-board/

Glasgow Celtic PLC mortgaged just a portion of this land in 2011 with the Co-Op bank again valuing this portion of land at considerably more than Celtic PLC paid for the whole 48 acres

http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/11/24/celtic-fc-getting-sucked-into-the-labour-party-co-operative-bank-scandal/

Again, this was a closed deal with no open marketing of the land to achieve the best possible value to the taxpayer

It would appear Glasgow Celtic PLC have a bit of a Midas touch in land transactions involving public bodies in Scotland, particularly Labour party dominated ones.

in light of the fact that the Co-Op bank are currently under threat of investigation regarding their links and provision of “soft loans” to the Labour party, it may be worth noting that two directors, Dr John Reid and Brian Wilson, who were on Glasgow Celtic PLC board at the time of the transactions involving GCC the Co-Op bank and Celtic PLC were prominent Labour Party leaders and Government Ministers

I look forward to your thoughts on the above

Yours

Jim Fraser

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Here is a C&P regarding CFC & GCC

Jim fraser says:

November 27, 2013 at 1:40 pm

sent HM treasury and Scottish Ministers and newspapers

Hi

I’m emailing regarding concerns I have about various land transactions between the then Labour controlled public bodies Glasgow City Council, Greater Glasgow Health Board and Glasgow Celtic Football Club PLC and the Co-op bank

it appears even on the most cursory inspection of the information listed below that there would appear to be some serious questions of concern regarding the misuse of public monies and potentially fraudulent activity involving the bodies mentioned.

it would seem clear from the information below that either, Glasgow City Council through incompetence or otherwise wrongly valued these lands to the benefit of Glasgow Celtic PLC? or, the Co-op bank placed a value far higher than their true worth in order to facilitate a soft loan to benefit Glasgow Celtic PLC to the detriment of their shareholders and other customers

I ask that you investigate these land transactions and the nature of the financial borrowing associated with these transactions as a matter of urgency in order that the citizens of Glasgow can have confidence in their elected representatives and the professionalism, integrity and impartiality of the British banking system

1. the sale of Westhorn recreational grounds located in the east end of Glasgow, independently valued at around £5m pounds and sold to Glasgow Celtic PLC by Glasgow City Council for £675,000 on the grounds that geotechnical reports indicated abnormal ground conditions on the site, the aforementioned geotechnical report was used as the basis for a £3.75m discount on the land value being offered to Celtic PLC

It appears on questioning this transaction under FOI legislation, Glasgow City Council don’t hold any record of any such geotechnical report, which is quite frankly astonishing given the amount of taxpayer money involved in this discounted sale.

it is also worth noting that on the very day this land was purchased by Celtic PLC, they also raised a mortgage on the purchased land with the Co-Op bank http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/celtics-mortgages-to-co-operative-bank-and-glasgow-city-council-westhorn-training-ground/, the value of the mortgage raised would appear to be quite considerably higher than the purchase price paid by Celtic PLC, which raises the questions, was this land fairly valued by GCC? did the Council surveyor provide a true valuation? why did the Co-Op independent surveyor place a far higher value (up to ten times higher) on this land.

This appears to have been a closed sale with no open marketing of the land to achieve the best return for taxpayers.

GCC have a security on Westhorn that would require Celtic PLC to pay GCC 50% of any profit form any future sell on by Celtic PLC, this security expires in 2014 and as such I feel this “deal” needs to be investigated urgently

2. Land around Celtic Stadium, namely, Janefield St, Kinloch St and Dalriada St which Glasgow City Council demolished at considerable cost to taxpayers with part of the reasons given that redevelopment of Celtic’s Stadium blocked out natural daylight and interfered with tv reception to existing houses on these streets, this land was the sold to Gasgow Celtic PLC for around £250,000 I believe, council minutes note the sale price reflected that the land was useful only for “football related uses”, however, Glasgow City Council gave Glasgow Celtic PLC planning permission to build residential dwellings on this land less than two years later as part of Celtic’s Masterplan for the Celtic triangle. as you may be aware land with residential possibilities will be placed at a far higher value than land only useful for “football related purposes”

Again this was a closed deal between Glasgow City Council and Celtic PLC with no open marketing of the land to achieve full value for the taxpayer.

3. London Road School opposite Celtic Stadium is another very strange deal involving Glasgow City Council and Glasgow Celtic PLC, it would appear Glasgow City Council have allowed this B listed school to fall into disrepair against the wishes of Historic Scotland http://billmcmurdo.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/eir-4486102-london-rd-2.pdf in order to demolish it and facilitate Celtic PLC wish to develop this site as part of the Masterplan for the Celtic Triangle.

FOI requests to Glasgow City council show that Celtic PLC have an option to purchase this land at an agreed price of around £300,000, this option lasts until 2014 after which time Glasgow City Council have placed a value of £1 on it.. Celtic PLC seemed to herald in the national press and TV last year that they had purchased this land and were developing it as a museum and sports outlet and café, however, FOI request from Glasgow City Council have stated that Celtic PLC had not yet taken up the option to buy this land. http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/london-road-primary-school-more-glasgow-city-council-favours-for-celtic/

Glasgow City Council are currently in the process of demolishing this B listed building against the wishes of Historic Scotland, strangely though submission to the council for permission to demolish this building appear to name Celtic PLC as the owner? It would seem clear that Glasgow City Council intend this site to go to Celtic PLC as a cleared site, whether for £300,000 or £1, it would seem Land Prices inside the Celtic Triangle disappear in much the same way ships disappear in the Bermuda triangle

Again this is a closed deal between these two parties, with no open marketing of the land to achieve the best possible value to the taxpayer.

on all the three above transactions between Glasgow City Council and Glasgow Celtic PLC the Council state they could not show these parcels of land were marketed fully on the open market to achieve best value for the taxpayers of Glasgow because on each occasion they had a ” prior contractual agreement” with Celtic PLC

4. Greater Glasgow Health Board under the sole authorization of CEO a Mr Tom Divers sold land around the old Lennox Castle Hospital – 48 acres to Celtic PLC for £493,000 in 2006, given that a single detached house in that location would easily fetch £493,000 this would seem an extraordinarily cheap price for the said land. http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/lennoxtown-sale-approved-solely-by-tom-divers-ceo-greater-glasgow-health-board/

Glasgow Celtic PLC mortgaged just a portion of this land in 2011 with the Co-Op bank again valuing this portion of land at considerably more than Celtic PLC paid for the whole 48 acres

http://footballtaxhavens.wordpress.com/2013/11/24/celtic-fc-getting-sucked-into-the-labour-party-co-operative-bank-scandal/

Again, this was a closed deal with no open marketing of the land to achieve the best possible value to the taxpayer

It would appear Glasgow Celtic PLC have a bit of a Midas touch in land transactions involving public bodies in Scotland, particularly Labour party dominated ones.

in light of the fact that the Co-Op bank are currently under threat of investigation regarding their links and provision of “soft loans” to the Labour party, it may be worth noting that two directors, Dr John Reid and Brian Wilson, who were on Glasgow Celtic PLC board at the time of the transactions involving GCC the Co-Op bank and Celtic PLC were prominent Labour Party leaders and Government Ministers

I look forward to your thoughts on the above

Yours

Jim Fraser

Reply

Well in Jim. Have you sent a link to Alex Thomson at C4? Be interested if he would show the same vigour toward this as he did with the RFC Big Taxcase and EBT's.

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Co-op Bank slammed for dishing out £33m in cheap loans and overdrafts to Celtic Football Club

By JAMES SALMON

PUBLISHED: 22:38, 27 November 2013 | UPDATED: 09:25, 28 November 2013

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The Co-operative Bank has come under fire for dishing out £33.2million in cheap loans and overdrafts to Celtic Football Club, which was chaired by former Labour home secretary John Reid.

MPs last night demanded an explanation for the rock bottom interest rates and accused the mutual of using the ‘hard-earned cash of millions of savers for political gain’.

It is the latest twist in the row over the troubled lender’s links with the Labour Party.

Own goal: The Glasgow-based football club has long-established links with the Labour Party

Glasgow-based Celtic was chaired by Lord Reid, the former home secretary under Tony Blair, between 2007 and 2011.

Labour’s former energy minister Brian Wilson joined the Celtic board in 2005 and remains a director.

Insiders said the loan pre-dates both Wilson and Reid’s arrival at the club.

More...

Co-op finance boss faces tax questions

Beware the fixed-rate savings trap: Britannia refused to let us get our cash and cost us our hope of a new home

But Celtic has long-established links with Labour, which has controlled Glasgow City Council since the 1970s.

The latest company accounts for Celtic show it has a £12million overdraft facility charging an average of 1.5 per cent over the year to June 30 2013.

This is based on one percentage point above the Bank of England’s base rate, which is currently 0.5 per cent.

The remainder is made up of a £21.2million long-term loan, with an average rate of 1.65 per cent. This makes even Labour’s recent £1.2million cheap loan at 4 per cent – or 3.5 per cent above Base Rate – look expensive.

Co-op’s hugely generous terms once again highlight the close links between the scandal-hit lender and the upper echelons of the Labour Party.

The political connection has come under the spotlight after former Labour councillor and former Co-op Bank chairman the Reverend Paul Flowers was caught out allegedly organising drug-fuelled orgies with rent boys.

Mark Garnier, the Conservative MP and member of the Treasury Select Committee, said: ‘The questions about Labour’s influence over the management of the Co-op knows no limit. It now seems that cheap loans are available to organisations where Labour ministers have significant influence as well as directly to the Labour Party itself.’

He added: Why were Labour and their friends receiving cheap loans? What political outcomes was the Co-op trying to buy? Were the millions of savers at the Co-op bank told their hard-earned cash was being used for political gain? Have any of the Labour-related soft loans contributed to the £1.5billion black hole in the Co-op balance sheet?’

The first deadline to vote on a rescue package to plug a £1.5billion black hole in the lender’s finances falls at 4.30pm on Friday.

The Co-operative Party, the political wing of the Co-op, is the sister party of Labour.

In order to help shore up its finances Co-op Bank stopped lending to small firms in May.

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