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Ally included in celebrations?


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17 minutes ago, JograBear said:

Fucking deluded....we would have gotten there with any manager in charge given the budget. On all other fronts he failed as a manager...and I'm not even going to go into how much money he cost the club due to his inability and arrogance.

Wouldn't have you threading a needle anytime soon ya Looney.

You're the deluded one by trying to block out a manger from Rangers history.

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1 hour ago, Blue Avenger said:

He is a legend for being a lying, robbing, self centered, erse licking barsteward. As I said, you cannot cherry pick bits of behaviour to make him a good guy.

Legends are beyond reproach and this one has proven he is not worthy of being such. He single handedly contrived his own downfall and is now a figure of embarassment and shame. Some fucking legend!

Yet you can cherry pick and twist everything to suit your pathetic character assassination?  Rank hypocrisy right there.

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19 minutes ago, D'Artagnan said:

So often as fans we idolise our heroes, we afford them legendry status, sometimes on occasions it is unmeritted.

Ally McCoist's  legendary status is without a shadow of doubt, on merit. His exploits on the playing field and his goal scoring achievements for our club will probaby never be beaten nor equalled.

But its quite simply wrong to base our opinion of Ally solely on his playing career - he had a stint as manager and to exclude both this and his conduct during that term of office would be like judging a football game solely on the first half. 

It is not Ally's fault that he was not a good manager - but those who continue to present excuses referring to the conditions he worked in forget that the boards he worked under he publicly supported and furthermore that those same boards gave him player budgets which were second only to Celtic. And thats notwithstanding the fact that Ally had facilities such as Auchenhowie which should be putting our club at a disctinct advantage. Hearts of course closed that gap by Robbie Neilson insisting on training 3 times a day and warning those who allowed themselves to become less than fully fit that they would be jettisoned.

Under Green & others the gravy train culture which has been at Ibrox for far too long was allowed to flourish - it is of no surprise that we ended up in the state we did relying on loans and the selling of our brightest starlets just to keep the lights on. Stockbridge lied to us at the AGM when he told us wages etc were within our budget we now know they were not. We were hemorrhaging money at an unsustainable rate.

What it needed at this time was a Rangers man with the club's interest a heart to step forward and put an end to this by leading by example. Wallace's attempt to curb the excesses was doomed to failure when only the players were asked to take a cut - and Ally of course publicly suported his players in this fiasco. What should have happened is that everyone at the club should have taken a cut comensurate with the club's current position which had a direct effect on incoming revenue. None did of course. Shame on them - every single on of them.

Ally only offered to take a cut in wages after his income was released in a most unedifyng manner in more board shehanigans.

This may come hard to some - but the accusations of greed, avarice and opportunism can be appllied to Ally McCoist as much as any of the others who availed themselves of cheap shares - though not the word "spiv" for some reason. This was perhaps the most unsavoury aspect in all of this. Fans were buying season tickets (often more than required) and shares (stretching their financial resources to the limit & perhaps beyond) at a far greater price just to ensure the club survived whilst vultures inside the club were making a quick buck for themselves courtesy of shares at a knock down price. Shame on every one othem - Ally McCoist incuded.

Ally McCoist had a wonderful first half but he should have been substituted long before the end of the 2nd.

People have asked me in this thread & others of a similar nature if I would have taken a wage cut or not taken the legal entitlement of my contract.

The answer is simple - if I was doing a job for the club I loved I would not accept a wage which was not comensurate with my role & the club's position. Furthermore if I was not doing the job to required standard I be far too ashamed to continue to draw a wage after I had resigned from a job I had failed to meet the expectations and requirements I was asked to fulfil. I think many of us would this such a sentiment.

Rangers and their continuation are far more important to me than my personal bank balance.

 

 

 

D'Art it's not often I disagree with you but I honestly believe that Ally thought he was doing a good job. Salary wise who knows what financial commitments a person has. I'm not saying that I think he should have had such a salary and yes I think he should have taken a pay cut sooner but I can't stop thinking that if it wasn't for Ally we would be 5 titles lighter, for that alone I think people should be ashamed of themselves for some of the comments on here.

I actually do agree that Ally should not be part of the celebrations now that we're back where we belong, his time is past but I certainly will not be booing him if he does make an appearance.

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I can't help feeling that in order for us to move forward we need some kind of closure with McCoist, and his era. He represents the most glorious and most painful times of our history. A lot of people on here claim to know what they cannot know, and that is to do with the financial aspects of his latter days with us. He may have swindled us (an unsafe assumption).. or the faceless money launderers who hijacked our club may have tried to swindle him.

It was a tumultuous period, and of course McCoist deserves a lot of the resentment we feel as a support for some unforgivable sins on the park. But ultimately he should be forgiven and invited to mark the end one hellish period, and the birth of something really special. No more baggage.

 

 

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1 minute ago, jintybear said:

D'Art it's not often I disagree with you but I honestly believe that Ally thought he was doing a good job. Salary wise who knows what financial commitments a person has. I'm not saying that I think he should have had such a salary and yes I think he should have taken a pay cut sooner but I can't stop thinking that if it wasn't for Ally we would be 5 titles lighter, for that alone I think people should be ashamed of themselves for some of the comments on here.

I actually do agree that Ally should not be part of the celebrations now that we're back where we belong, his time is past but I certainly will not be booing him if he does make an appearance.

JB

You may well be right about Ally's contribution at the 5 Way Agreement meeting - but in truth with the lack of evidence available its all supposition.

As for his management record and hs own thoughts on it - agan you could be right - but you will find most of my angst revolves around his conduct rather than his failings as a manger.

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8 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

That's great. No one is doubting / questioning his ability on the park. Even his managerial reign. It's the behind the scenes issues, which I won't list again that's the major problem. 

List them again mate

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1 hour ago, Turnberry18 said:

This sounds more like the plot to an opera. This club has great links to its past, through ex players etc. If you go the Thornton Suite, the Members Club and so then you will meet many ex players, it maintains a sense of continuity within  the club and honours the past heroes of the club. Why wouldn't the club's record goalscorer not be part of the club, if even in that way sometime in the future? One of the strengths of the club is that ex players still maintain links with the club. Ally will always be welcome at Ibrox I would suggest.

Lots of things that have happened at our club the last 5 years have been like the scrip of a bad soap opera , they still happened ffs . 

Past links should always be welcomed , but a bit of humility and class from the man himself should see him politely decline any offer to bask in someone elses big day . I don't recall John Greig being involved in the 83/84 League cup celebrations !

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Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

Fancy listing his managerial stats, oh you could use an inky on the back of a bookie slip and still have space for a bet on the national today (tu) 

Protected us being robbed of 5 league titles.

Protected our good sporting name.

Prevented us from admitting to cheating.

...thus preventing the shitstorm that would definitely have followed.  We'd never be able to defend our name and our reputation would have been in tatters.

Apart from that....nothing of note. 

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7 minutes ago, Fred H Crawford said:

Lots of things that have happened at our club the last 5 years have been like the scrip of a bad soap opera , they still happened ffs . 

Past links should always be welcomed , but a bit of humility and class from the man himself should see him politely decline any offer to bask in someone elses big day . I don't recall John Greig being involved in the 83/84 League cup celebrations !

Whilst I agree that Ally should not be there, and should decline any invite, the whole debate is because of the uniqueness of the situation - no other manager has had to go through what Ally had to and come up through the divisions, yes the football was shite and it was a hard slog to watch, the fact remains that he was a part of that.

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14 minutes ago, coopsleftboot said:

Protected us being robbed of 5 league titles.

Protected our good sporting name.

Prevented us from admitting to cheating.

...thus preventing the shitstorm that would definitely have followed.  We'd never be able to defend our name and our reputation would have been in tatters.

Apart from that....nothing of note. 

Failed to have us promoted then sat back and collected 80k a month for 10 months whilst the club was on its knees financially.

Ally can go fuck himself.

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2 hours ago, BridgeIsBlue said:

I don't know if it's because I'm hungover but this is seriously boiling my pish now.

It's got absolutely fuck all to do with him,he's had plenty of opportunities to come back after his money train ended but he hasn't. Then he suddenly reappears and what does he do? Starts praising the tarriers :lol: 

Guy's a fucking sponge.

This is my major problem with him. From praising that lot to chumming up with his BFF Lennon, no doubt treating him to a pint or two on Rangers; fucking sickening. 

I'd never boo the guy - IMO that just makes us look like utter cunts - but I couldn't bring myself to cheer for him again. 

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17 minutes ago, jintybear said:

Whilst I agreeat Ally should not be there, andwas should decline any invite, the whole debate is because of the uniqueness of the situation - no other manager has had to go through what Ally had to and come up through the divisions, yes the football was shite and it was a hard slog to watch, the fact remains that he was a part of that.

Yes he was ,but as others have pointed out so were kevin kyle , ian black ,cribari etc . None of them played a part in winning this title though and its winning this that we should be celebrating . First home game next season ,invite them all if that helps us move on but not to celebrate a title win they played no part in . Ally being there only takes the spotlight away from the current team & staffs achievement , let them enjoy what they worked hard for .

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Well 23 pages - doubtless with a lot more to follow - and its clear the subject has created massive interest.  It has also unveiled some understandably strong views. 

I suppose Ally McCoist himself is well aware of the strength of feeling that many have about his time as Rangers Manager and about his greed in raking in a very large sum of money when he was on gardening leave.  Yes, yes I know he was entitled to the money under the terms of his contract but such terms can be waived. He put self-enrichment very far ahead of considerations about how that would be interpreted by a lot of Supporters at a time when it could be argued he was continuing to be financially rewarded for presiding over avoidable and massive football failure.  

Ok.  That said there are very few of us who will travel throughout our working lives without ever setting a foot wrong, making bad decisions, performing way below par, saying what was best left unsaid, failing to say what should have been said and so on.  In short finding ourselves in a position which was less than ideal, in circumstances not entirely of our own making, out of our professional depth, but not recognising or acting to remove ourselves from it until a lot of damage is done.   Whether in a one-off short lived event, or like McCoist's time as Manager last season, spread over many months.    To some extent or other we've all ballsed something up big time.   We make big mistakes.

I'd like to think he (Ally McCoist) recognises he made mistakes and errors of judgement that simply do not play well with much of the Support, even allowing for his more than legendary status as a Rangers football player.  Perhaps one day a clearer picture will emerge of the stresses that he was facing at Rangers during his time as Manager which may go some way to explaining the events more clearly.   King and the Board may have a role to play here.  They know the facts.  They have the files.  They are pals with Ally.  They could shed some more light on things if they chose in order to help all of us understand what was going on at that bad time in our history.   Equally it may have been helpful to hear Ally recognising that his time as Manager and his actions in taking the dosh meant he lost the respect of large chunks of the Support who were shelling out week in and week out to support the team.  

There is no way the Board cannot have Ally McCoist join in the celebrations.  He was the Manager who had to pick up the pieces that were left when we found ourselves in Div 3.  He put a team together to win promotions to the Championship.   Yes he had massive resources.  Yes its arguable that any other manager could have achieved the same promotions and with a better brand of football.  But the fact is he was the Manager for that substantial part of the Journey.  He is a Rangers legend as a footballer (more than a legend in fact).   He is a Rangers man.      

So - with some reservations - I can see enough reasons why he should be part of the celebrations.  For my part I'll put aside for a while the raw memories of managerial failure and financial greed and accept it if Ally McCoist joins in on celebrating our return to the top flight.           

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21 minutes ago, Fred H Crawford said:

Yes he was ,but as others have pointed out so were kevin kyle , ian black ,cribari etc . None of them played a part in winning this title though and its winning this that we should be celebrating . First home game next season ,invite them all if that helps us move on but not to celebrate a title win they played no part in . Ally being there only takes the spotlight away from the current team & staffs achievement , let them enjoy what they worked hard for .

I agree. I'm only talking about why ally would be invited. As far as I'm aware none of the players fought to save the clubs titles and had to put up with a lot of the stuff Ally did. I'm not sticking up for him and I've already said I don't think he should come to the final game, I'm more trying to reason as to why others might and I can understand their points.

It's always the same when a McCoist thread appears, it totally splits the supporters on this forum and many people have strong views. Nobody is right or wrong but everyone is entitled to opinions, that's what makes this forum better than all the rest!  

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At a minimum it's an insult to what MW and SDW have achieved in such a short space of time. He will become the focal point of the celebrations which is wrong. 

Unfortunately the man has a neck made of the thickest brass and I feel he will walk out shedding crocodile tears as he does. The whole thing just doesn't sit right with me and as I have been told before, there is more to come with this. Apparently the financial gains Ally was making stretch into the even more ridiculous. Win bonuses for every match (on top of his salary) being one of them.

 

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Where has it been said that Ally would be part of the celebrations? If he was in the Main Stand then that would be standard for an ex manager who happened to be a club legend. The idea that he would be doing anything more than that appears to have come from nowhere. I've imagine that any part he would have in celebrating the club's promotion would be purely as a fan. It would be a surprise if Ally would be happy with it any other way. 

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22 minutes ago, AllyDawson72 said:

At a minimum it's an insult to what MW and SDW have achieved in such a short space of time. He will become the focal point of the celebrations which is wrong. 

Unfortunately the man has a neck made of the thickest brass and I feel he will walk out shedding crocodile tears as he does. The whole thing just doesn't sit right with me and as I have been told before, there is more to come with this. Apparently the financial gains Ally was making stretch into the even more ridiculous. Win bonuses for every match (on top of his salary) being one of them.

 

I was just saying this to somebody else.

I think it would be selfish and disresctful to the management team and to the players to take the focus and attention off of them and put it on to himself. They've worked hard all season for their spotlight and they deserve all of it.

I know a lot of others don't feel this way but I would welcome McCoist back in the future when a bit more time has passed, but at the moment I think the wounds are stil too raw among a lot of the support and he should probably stay away.

What seems "odd" to me is that he waited until we won the title to resurface and a couple of days later there's an opinion piece in the DR talking about how he should get a chance to say goodbye.

A cynical person could suggest that this might have been planned to perfection by somebody who is looking to take advantage of the feel good party atmosphere to try and use it rebuild his own damaged reputation...but I'm not a cynical person :pipe:

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14 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Where has it been said that Ally would be part of the celebrations? If he was in the Main Stand then that would be standard for an ex manager who happened to be a club legend. The idea that he would be doing anything more than that appears to have come from nowhere. I've imagine that any part he would have in celebrating the club's promotion would be purely as a fan. It would be a surprise if Ally would be happy with it any other way. 

Most of it seems to be coming from the DR piece the other day that suggested McCoist deserves an opportunity to say goodbye.

I could accept him doing a HT draw to get that opportunity or maybe even being in the directors box, but as I've said I think there's still a lot of anger towards him so he should probably wait until a bit more time has passed because time heals all wounds.

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