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Ally included in celebrations?

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Well 23 pages - doubtless with a lot more to follow - and its clear the subject has created massive interest.  It has also unveiled some understandably strong views. 

I suppose Ally McCoist himself is well aware of the strength of feeling that many have about his time as Rangers Manager and about his greed in raking in a very large sum of money when he was on gardening leave.  Yes, yes I know he was entitled to the money under the terms of his contract but such terms can be waived. He put self-enrichment very far ahead of considerations about how that would be interpreted by a lot of Supporters at a time when it could be argued he was continuing to be financially rewarded for presiding over avoidable and massive football failure.  

Ok.  That said there are very few of us who will travel throughout our working lives without ever setting a foot wrong, making bad decisions, performing way below par, saying what was best left unsaid, failing to say what should have been said and so on.  In short finding ourselves in a position which was less than ideal, in circumstances not entirely of our own making, out of our professional depth, but not recognising or acting to remove ourselves from it until a lot of damage is done.   Whether in a one-off short lived event, or like McCoist's time as Manager last season, spread over many months.    To some extent or other we've all ballsed something up big time.   We make big mistakes.

I'd like to think he (Ally McCoist) recognises he made mistakes and errors of judgement that simply do not play well with much of the Support, even allowing for his more than legendary status as a Rangers football player.  Perhaps one day a clearer picture will emerge of the stresses that he was facing at Rangers during his time as Manager which may go some way to explaining the events more clearly.   King and the Board may have a role to play here.  They know the facts.  They have the files.  They are pals with Ally.  They could shed some more light on things if they chose in order to help all of us understand what was going on at that bad time in our history.   Equally it may have been helpful to hear Ally recognising that his time as Manager and his actions in taking the dosh meant he lost the respect of large chunks of the Support who were shelling out week in and week out to support the team.  

There is no way the Board cannot have Ally McCoist join in the celebrations.  He was the Manager who had to pick up the pieces that were left when we found ourselves in Div 3.  He put a team together to win promotions to the Championship.   Yes he had massive resources.  Yes its arguable that any other manager could have achieved the same promotions and with a better brand of football.  But the fact is he was the Manager for that substantial part of the Journey.  He is a Rangers legend as a footballer (more than a legend in fact).   He is a Rangers man.      

So - with some reservations - I can see enough reasons why he should be part of the celebrations.  For my part I'll put aside for a while the raw memories of managerial failure and financial greed and accept it if Ally McCoist joins in on celebrating our return to the top flight.           

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21 minutes ago, Fred H Crawford said:

Yes he was ,but as others have pointed out so were kevin kyle , ian black ,cribari etc . None of them played a part in winning this title though and its winning this that we should be celebrating . First home game next season ,invite them all if that helps us move on but not to celebrate a title win they played no part in . Ally being there only takes the spotlight away from the current team & staffs achievement , let them enjoy what they worked hard for .

I agree. I'm only talking about why ally would be invited. As far as I'm aware none of the players fought to save the clubs titles and had to put up with a lot of the stuff Ally did. I'm not sticking up for him and I've already said I don't think he should come to the final game, I'm more trying to reason as to why others might and I can understand their points.

It's always the same when a McCoist thread appears, it totally splits the supporters on this forum and many people have strong views. Nobody is right or wrong but everyone is entitled to opinions, that's what makes this forum better than all the rest!  

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At a minimum it's an insult to what MW and SDW have achieved in such a short space of time. He will become the focal point of the celebrations which is wrong. 

Unfortunately the man has a neck made of the thickest brass and I feel he will walk out shedding crocodile tears as he does. The whole thing just doesn't sit right with me and as I have been told before, there is more to come with this. Apparently the financial gains Ally was making stretch into the even more ridiculous. Win bonuses for every match (on top of his salary) being one of them.

 

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Where has it been said that Ally would be part of the celebrations? If he was in the Main Stand then that would be standard for an ex manager who happened to be a club legend. The idea that he would be doing anything more than that appears to have come from nowhere. I've imagine that any part he would have in celebrating the club's promotion would be purely as a fan. It would be a surprise if Ally would be happy with it any other way. 

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22 minutes ago, AllyDawson72 said:

At a minimum it's an insult to what MW and SDW have achieved in such a short space of time. He will become the focal point of the celebrations which is wrong. 

Unfortunately the man has a neck made of the thickest brass and I feel he will walk out shedding crocodile tears as he does. The whole thing just doesn't sit right with me and as I have been told before, there is more to come with this. Apparently the financial gains Ally was making stretch into the even more ridiculous. Win bonuses for every match (on top of his salary) being one of them.

 

I was just saying this to somebody else.

I think it would be selfish and disresctful to the management team and to the players to take the focus and attention off of them and put it on to himself. They've worked hard all season for their spotlight and they deserve all of it.

I know a lot of others don't feel this way but I would welcome McCoist back in the future when a bit more time has passed, but at the moment I think the wounds are stil too raw among a lot of the support and he should probably stay away.

What seems "odd" to me is that he waited until we won the title to resurface and a couple of days later there's an opinion piece in the DR talking about how he should get a chance to say goodbye.

A cynical person could suggest that this might have been planned to perfection by somebody who is looking to take advantage of the feel good party atmosphere to try and use it rebuild his own damaged reputation...but I'm not a cynical person :pipe:

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14 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Where has it been said that Ally would be part of the celebrations? If he was in the Main Stand then that would be standard for an ex manager who happened to be a club legend. The idea that he would be doing anything more than that appears to have come from nowhere. I've imagine that any part he would have in celebrating the club's promotion would be purely as a fan. It would be a surprise if Ally would be happy with it any other way. 

Most of it seems to be coming from the DR piece the other day that suggested McCoist deserves an opportunity to say goodbye.

I could accept him doing a HT draw to get that opportunity or maybe even being in the directors box, but as I've said I think there's still a lot of anger towards him so he should probably wait until a bit more time has passed because time heals all wounds.

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Just now, DBBTB said:

Most of it seems to be coming from the DR piece the other day that suggested McCoist deserves an opportunity to say goodbye.

I could accept him doing a HT draw to get that opportunity or maybe even being in the directors box, but as I've said I think there's still a lot of anger towards him so he should probably wait until a bit more time has passed because time heals all wounds.

It could be the club wanting closure. For a narrative alone it would be helpful to say that this brief period in our history is now done and we move on. I never admitted at the time, but this has been a hard time to watch us in periods. This season was the exception, but when we failed to get promoted last season the thought of another season in the lower leagues was hard to contemplate; then Mark Warburton came along. We need to move on, in my opinion. This week should be a time to celebrate. We could be on the start of something special. We should put this behind us, and if Ally is in the stand watching the close of the season and celebrating as a fan that might be a good thing for us to draw a line on the last few seasons. Very few clubs would have stayed intact with what this club has endured, but we did it with distinction. If any club ever ends up in our situation they will probably look at this club and take heart. This is a time for optimism; we should be genuinely excited about the future under Mark Warburton.

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32 minutes ago, AllyDawson72 said:

At a minimum it's an insult to what MW and SDW have achieved in such a short space of time. He will become the focal point of the celebrations which is wrong. 

Unfortunately the man has a neck made of the thickest brass and I feel he will walk out shedding crocodile tears as he does. The whole thing just doesn't sit right with me and as I have been told before, there is more to come with this. Apparently the financial gains Ally was making stretch into the even more ridiculous. Win bonuses for every match (on top of his salary) being one of them.

 

His 10 k win bonus in lower leagues and his dodgy inside dealing with the easdales that when reported he was forced to do the off ? 

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Just now, DBBTB said:

Most of it seems to be coming from the DR piece the other day that suggested McCoist deserves an opportunity to say goodbye.

I could accept him doing a HT draw to get that opportunity or maybe even being in the directors box, but as I've said I think there's still a lot of anger towards him so he should probably wait until a bit more time has passed because time heals all wounds.

That must be more courageous journalism from Paul Murray's most courageous of newspapers then eh?

Never before in the history of this great Club has a figure split the fan base more than McCoist has.

As a player his scoring feats stand up against most.

As a Manager his record sticks out like a sore thumb though.

He thought he could spend his way out of trouble the way his mentor had done before,the difference being Smith was more of a Manager than McCoist will ever hope to be.

The thing that sticks out for me is what MW and DW have done on half the budget McCoist had at his disposal and the brand of Football on display is truly remarkable given the squad size.

He will be back at Ibrox at some point and the gullible amongst the support will sing his praises but imo he should stay away and let MW and DW wallow in the praise of their fantastic work,something McCoist had nothing to do with.

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Just now, Canabear said:

That must be more courageous journalism from Paul Murray's most courageous of newspapers then eh?

Never before in the history of this great Club has a figure split the fan base more than McCoist has.

As a player his scoring feats stand up against most.

As a Manager his record sticks out like a sore thumb though.

He thought he could spend his way out of trouble the way his mentor had done before,the difference being Smith was more of a Manager than McCoist will ever hope to be.

The thing that sticks out for me is what MW and DW have done on half the budget McCoist had at his disposal and the brand of Football on display is truly remarkable given the squad size.

He will be back at Ibrox at some point and the gullible amongst the support will sing his praises but imo he should stay away and let MW and DW wallow in the praise of their fantastic work,something McCoist had nothing to do with.

Sing his praises in what way?

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4 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Sing his praises in what way?

You don't think you'll hear the super Ally chant?

That there are those among the support who think he can't do any wrong because he's "a Legend"?

 

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5 minutes ago, Canabear said:

You don't think you'll hear the super Ally chant?

That there is those among the support who think he can't do any wrong because he's "a Legend"?

 

I don't understand what you are on about. "Super Ally" was Ally the player; I remember it well, and hopefully I never forget it. Being a legend doesn't exempt him from criticism. I have a view of his managerial stint that I think I owe him to be fair about; I think there is a certain context that can't be denied. You say some think he can do no wrong, but it also appears with some he can do no right. Both of these would be equally unfair surely.

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6 minutes ago, Canabear said:

You don't think you'll hear the super Ally chant?

That there are those among the support who think he can't do any wrong because he's "a Legend"?

The UB will be down the youth club this week making up a 'Thanks for the Memories Soooper Ally' banner :rolleyes: :anguish:

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25 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

I don't understand what you are on about. "Super Ally" was Ally the player; I remember it well, and hopefully I never forget it. Being a legend doesn't exempt him from criticism. I have a view of his managerial stint that I think I owe him to be fair about; I think there is a certain context that can't be denied. You say some think he can do no wrong, but it also appears with some he can do no right. Both of these would be equally unfair surely.

Point taken T and it's a fine line.

I just don't think he has a place there at the moment plus i definitely was not a fan of his stint as Manager,his tactics.

I could say more about him but i won't i'll leave it at that.

I'll leave that to more informed Bears than myself.

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I see no reason to specifically include Ally in our celebrations. We are all grateful for the part he played getting us out of the Third Division but after that we had all the poor football to watch followed by the gardening leave fiasco so I think we just thank him and all the other guys who did their part. I think of Andy Little, Jon Daly, big Kevin Kyle and all those guys who were not great footballers but pulled on the blue jersey and did their bit getting us through the leagues. we have had loan players who played their part and lots and lots of backroom staff who have worked hard and suffered in many ways and now can see the light at last.

 

 

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2 hours ago, coopsleftboot said:

Protected us being robbed of 5 league titles.

Protected our good sporting name.

Prevented us from admitting to cheating.

...thus preventing the shitstorm that would definitely have followed.  We'd never be able to defend our name and our reputation would have been in tatters.

Apart from that....nothing of note. 

 

2 hours ago, Virtuoso said:

Failed to have us promoted then sat back and collected 80k a month for 10 months whilst the club was on its knees financially.

Ally can go fuck himself.

Personally, for the action and effect of that act alone Ally was worth every penny.  What do you think would have happened in 2012 if he wasn't there?

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Warburton & Weir have brought an undeniably positive vibe to The Club resulting in fast exciting football culminating in us winning the Championship.

Last season especially with three different managers, we were under a cloud of depression most of the time due to the woeful displays on the pitch, culminating in us winning absolutely SFA.

The people responsible for our success and reason to celebrate should be the only ones to receive any accolades from us as it is only proper and the right thing to do.

Those who played no part in winning the Championship should not be anywhere near the celebrations or allowed to detract from the winners their right to share their achievement with the support.

McCoist especially should stay away as he is the only one who can stop any negatives from spoiling this event, if he accepts any invitation then he will be showing himself to be what many, many posters in this thread have come to believe of him ....... self-centered, egotistical and unaware of the situation that has brought these claims to the fore, and will become pretty undeniable if he decides to accept any invitation coming from the powers that be, and they also must be treated with disdain if they feel it would be acceptable practice to invite him.

:uk:

PS:- Tthis has nothing to to with his legendary football status, but more to to do with his abysmal management tenure at The Club.

 

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2 minutes ago, coopsleftboot said:

 

Personally, for the action and effect of that act alone Ally was worth every penny.  What do you think would have happened in 2012 if he wasn't there?

We would have had a premier league game today. SIMPLES

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Ally shouldn't be there wether it's on the pitch or in the main stand or whatever. All the local rags and TV cameras will be trying to get him and taking away the focus and attention from our management team and good players who have absolutely destroyed that division. We will have 50,000 there plus all the people who are immediately connected with the club celebrating a  petrofac cup championship title possibly buzzing as we are in thescottish  cup final and all this could be taken away by 1 man being there. It doesn't sit right with a support who are already split about it and I don't care what any1 says and wether he would admit it or not it would be a huge slap in the faces for MW/DW and it's not something I would support as MW has been fantastic for us. 

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2 hours ago, DBBTB said:

Everybody goes on about how McCoist played his part in the journey back through the leagues but out team has changed so much since then that him appearing at the title celebrations would be akin to Walter Smith turning up at Advocaat's teams title celebrations.

It's an absolutely ridiculous idea and one that I can't believe so many people seem to be in favour of.

Don't think it would have been mentioned by fans had the issue not been championed by the rats at the daily courageous who raised the issue.  The question is why bring it up?

1.  Mischief making to sell papers

2. Doing at the behest of the club or a board member

3. Both

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34 minutes ago, bornabear said:

We would have had a premier league game today. SIMPLES

:D possibly.

 

But we'd be chasing title number 50 instead and seen by the rest of the world as cheats.  After all we'd have admitted to it.  

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If I was Ally's advisor, I would tell him to go to the 2nd or 3rd home game of next season, not this one or the Septic one. Leave any thoughts of turning up at Ibrox until next year. 

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