All Barton Chat.

[Dazzler 2,428]

4 minutes ago, Smile said:

Win at all costs is what it's about at Rangers when it stops being that we are just another team.

Your nearly correct.

Winning with style should be the objective.

[Big Al 55 9,248]

6 minutes ago, Smile said:

Win at all costs is what it's about at Rangers when it stops being that we are just another team.

No thanks....I've watched enough of the type of football that mentality creates. If that means giving someone 3 years to change the footballing philosophy from the bottom up then so be it.

I'm not saying MW is necessarily the person to do that, time will tell...but the reactions by some on here are utterly pathetic. Look at how we all lauded Greens footballing master plan for the club, only problem is no one will get any longer than 5 indifferent results to implement it.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Winning at "all" costs was never the Rangers philosophy, certainly Mr Struth recognised that we would have 'our years of failure' and that 'when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity...That has been the philosophy of the Rangers since the days of the gallant pioneers'. It is total nonsense that this club has ever won at all costs, but, rather,  to deal with failure by absorbing it and then, in the long run, turning it to success.

[Smile 26,600]

7 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

No thanks....I've watched enough of the type of football that mentality creates. If that means giving someone 3 years to change the footballing philosophy from the bottom up then so be it.

I'm not saying MW is necessarily the person to do that, time will tell...but the reactions by some on here are utterly pathetic. Look at how we all lauded Greens footballing master plan for the club, only problem is no one will get any longer than 5 indifferent results to implement it.

 

How will it work with less experienced coaches and an inexperienced Manager, Advocaat, and some real quality Dutch coaches could not do it.

Warburtons had a lot more than Five indifferent results i can name more than Five just from last season which were not acceptable at all.

[Smile 26,600]

21 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

Your nearly correct.

Winning with style should be the objective.

 

Great teams can win ugly winning is the whole point, This is where some get confused like Warburton he has convinced people that possession is the point of football when anyone knows it's scoring the most goals. 

[Big Al 55 9,248]

Just now, Smile said:

How will it work with less experienced coaches and an inexperienced Manager, Advocaat, and some real quality Dutch coaches could not do it.

Warburtons had a lot more than Five indifferent results i can name more than Five just from last season which were not acceptable at all.

Not acceptable, FFS. That's exactly the problem here. A poor finish I totally agree, but other than that a fantastic season where the majority of his signings were very good and overall the quality of the football was refreshing to say the least.

Coaching experience is irrelevant to whether or not they will be suited to the task.

Advocaat was totally different, a universe away from where we are now, the expectation in Europe at that time was justifiable. At the moment it's pie in the sky stuff from some of our fans...totally ridiculous.

[Smile 26,600]

6 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

Not acceptable, FFS. That's exactly the problem here. A poor finish I totally agree, but other than that a fantastic season where the majority of his signings were very good and overall the quality of the football was refreshing to say the least.

Coaching experience is irrelevant to whether or not they will be suited to the task.

Advocaat was totally different, a universe away from where we are now, the expectation in Europe at that time was justifiable. At the moment it's pie in the sky stuff from some of our fans...totally ridiculous.

 

 

A poor finish, poor results especially away from home and a belief in a system that most Managers worked out and beat again and again. If the Majority of his signings were so good why do we still have a defence that is so bad. ?

Coaching experience is never irrelevant you get the best you can to do the job we don't have that now.

I can't see us agreeing to be honest as we are miles apart in thinking So will leave it there.

Rangers supporters should always want the best.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

41 minutes ago, Smile said:

List the reasons all i really see is ifs and buts.

Really, never used either in that context. So add needs glasses to cant fucken read plain English

[Smile 26,600]

Just now, Getstiffed said:

Really, never used either in that context. So add needs glasses to cant fucken read plain English

List them and the positives you see it's simple stuff.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

2 minutes ago, Smile said:

List them and the positives you see it's simple stuff.

I already have. All of which were and are demonstrable and I never needed to use if or buts.

So just to recap, you've had an answer to this question, twice and ignored it. You've claimed its all ifs and buts when there were no if or buts. Add that to your earlier attempts at dismissing my responses as head in the sand type stuff, when again, I was quite clear on there being plenty to have a moan about.

Conclusion? You've decided he's not the man and no matter what he does or if any body like me makes valid arguments you're never changing that position.

The obvious question now becomes why do you even bother pretending that you're interested in a debate or discussion when you've taken a position and are never going to move from it.

And please spare me that moral conviction pish.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

12 minutes ago, Smile said:

A poor finish, poor results especially away from home and a belief in a system that most Managers worked out and beat again and again. If the Majority of his signings were so good why do we still have a defence that is so bad. ?

Coaching experience is never irrelevant you get the best you can to do the job we don't have that now.

I can't see us agreeing to be honest as we are miles apart in thinking So will leave it there.

Rangers supporters should always want the best.

It's shite like this that makes me think you are either legitimately clueless or intentionally clueless.

Guess what mate? They've always played 10 men behind the ball, pack the middle field, spoil the game tactics against us. Always

You using this as a stick to beat the manager over the head with exposes your agenda in my opinion.

[Smile 26,600]

1 minute ago, Getstiffed said:

I already have. All of which were and are demonstrable and I never needed to use if or buts.

So just to recap, you've had an answer to this question, twice and ignored it. You've claimed its all ifs and buts when there were no if or buts. Add that to your earlier attempts at dismissing my responses as head in the sand type stuff, when again, I was quite clear on there being plenty to have a moan about.

Conclusion? You've decided he's not the man and no matter what he does or if any body like me makes valid arguments you're never changing that position.

The obvious question now becomes why do you even bother pretending that you're interested in a debate or discussion when you've taken a position and are never going to move from it.

And please spare me that moral conviction pish.

 

I can't really see them all i see is hopes and dreams, point them out to me or reiterate them to me so maybe i can see you have a point.

I said he wasn't the Man for the job due to lack of experience when he became Manager so that's not really up for debate.

[Smile 26,600]

10 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

It's shite like this that makes me think you are either legitimately clueless or intentionally clueless.

Guess what mate? They've always played 10 men behind the ball, pack the middle field, spoil the game tactics against us. Always

You using this as a stick to beat the manager over the head with exposes your agenda in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Nonsense they wait till Tav gets tired and too far up the park and stick a man on and flood that side, it worked over and over without being rectified by the manager. It's still happening now.

This everyone sitting back behind the ball and we are pummeling teams has not happened for a good while, Teams at times do sit in and allow us possession then pump the ball up tavs side then score its like watching a repeat over and over.

What agenda do i have? Wanting my team to be a success rather than a Failure.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

5 minutes ago, Smile said:

I can't really see them all i see is hopes and dreams, point them out to me or reiterate them to me so maybe i can see you have a point.

I said he wasn't the Man for the job due to lack of experience when he became Manager so that's not really up for debate.

Why the fuck would I reiterate anything to you when all you have to do is go back one page to the my initial answer to you.

Its not hopes and dreams to state the absolute fact that MW has worked his way from the bottom and been a success at his chosen careers.

That's not if, or maybe or but or a hope or a dream, that's a fact. He's made a success of himself in fields where stubbornness and the inability to learn from mistakes are not rewarded.

That's all that was in my response. Nothing else.

Respond to what I've said and spare me the hyperbolic shite.

[Smile 26,600]

2 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

Why the fuck would I reiterate anything to you when all you have to do is go back one page to the my initial answer to you.

Its not hopes and dreams to state the absolute fact that MW has worked his way from the bottom and been a success at his chosen careers.

That's not if, or maybe or but or a hope or a dream, that's a fact. He's made a success of himself in fields where stubbornness and the inability to learn from mistakes are not rewarded.

That's all that was in my response. Nothing else.

Respond to what I've said and spare me the hyperbolic shite.

 

 

Why's he still making the same mistakes.? if he's learning and such a success.

So there we have it everything going great there is nothing to worry about. Happy Days.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

6 minutes ago, Smile said:

Nonsense they wait till Tav gets tired and too far up the park and stick a man on and flood that side, it worked over and over without being rectified by the manager. It's still happening now.

This everyone sitting back behind the ball and we are pummeling teams has not happened for a good while, Teams at times do sit in and allow us possession then pump the ball up tavs side then score its like watching a repeat over and over.

What agenda do i have? Wanting my team to be a success rather than a Failure.

So what you're saying is that they hit is on the break and take advantage of gaps left by our players attacking? Yeah that's totally different to anything we've ever encountered. Im glad you've pointed that out to me because in my 25+ years watching Rangers I've never seen a team use those tactics. Totally exclusive to the manager you don't rate that uses the tactics you don't like...

I'm not sure if you're for real or what

Fucken hell

[Big Al 55 9,248]

40 minutes ago, Smile said:

A poor finish, poor results especially away from home and a belief in a system that most Managers worked out and beat again and again. If the Majority of his signings were so good why do we still have a defence that is so bad. ?

Coaching experience is never irrelevant you get the best you can to do the job we don't have that now.

I can't see us agreeing to be honest as we are miles apart in thinking So will leave it there.

Rangers supporters should always want the best.

I do want the best. It the best of "what" we disagree with. I don't think grinding out turgid 1-0 wins with the players terrified to misplace a pass or make a mistake is the best of anything...yes that will attract a new breed of fans won't it!

I've been fortunate enough to watch 9IAR, and the Advocaat era and all I ever wanted after about season 5 in 9IAR was success in Europe. I remember winning one title and it was just expected, it was no big deal, hardly any celebration at all...I look back now and realise what an absolute tit I was.

It doesn't matter what we have we always want more...If we're not winning we need to win every game...once we win almost every game...we need to win every game in style. If we win 2-1 it should have been 4 or 5....after all it's only Scotland.

I want the team to play attractive , effective, possession football. I want that philosophy from bottom to top...to start with the youth teams. I want them to have been playing that way for 6 years before those good enough even make the first team. I want us to bring in players who suit that style...all comfortable on the ball. 

If the results suffer in the short to medium term then so be it, I've had almost everything else as a Rangers fan and it was never enough...so perhaps this will be  

[Smile 26,600]

38 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

So what you're saying is that they hit is on the break and take advantage of gaps left by our players attacking? Yeah that's totally different to anything we've ever encountered. Im glad you've pointed that out to me because in my 25+ years watching Rangers I've never seen a team use those tactics. Totally exclusive to the manager you don't rate that uses the tactics you don't like...

I'm not sure if you're for real or what

Fucken hell

 

 

You have to learn from somewhere you like Warburton have not seemed to notice it you think we are pummeling teams with our great possession and goal stats when we are not.

This for real nonsense you spout is wearing thin now.

[writingranger 1,413]

15 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

I do want the best. It the best of "what" we disagree with. I don't think grinding out turgid 1-0 wins with the players terrified to misplace a pass or make a mistake is the best of anything...yes that will attract a new breed of fans won't it!

I've been fortunate enough to watch 9IAR, and the Advocaat era and all I ever wanted after about season 5 in 9IAR was success in Europe. I remember winning one title and it was just expected, it was no big deal, hardly any celebration at all...I look back now and realise what an absolute tit I was.

It doesn't matter what we have we always want more...If we're not winning we need to win every game...once we win almost every game...we need to win every game in style. If we win 2-1 it should have been 4 or 5....after all it's only Scotland.

I want the team to play attractive , effective, possession football. I want that philosophy from bottom to top...to start with the youth teams. I want them to have been playing that way for 6 years before those good enough even make the first team. I want us to bring in players who suit that style...all comfortable on the ball. 

If the results suffer in the short to medium term then so be it, I've had almost everything else as a Rangers fan and it was never enough...so perhaps this will be  

I agree all day long. I remember those times too. I remember the three foreigner rule - removing it was supposed to help us. I didn't. I remember the 80's, Aberdeen and Dundee winning everything. Souness finished 3rd one season. Football is cyclical and fans always want more. Start with great football and then build on it.

[Smile 26,600]

23 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

I do want the best. It the best of "what" we disagree with. I don't think grinding out turgid 1-0 wins with the players terrified to misplace a pass or make a mistake is the best of anything...yes that will attract a new breed of fans won't it!

I've been fortunate enough to watch 9IAR, and the Advocaat era and all I ever wanted after about season 5 in 9IAR was success in Europe. I remember winning one title and it was just expected, it was no big deal, hardly any celebration at all...I look back now and realise what an absolute tit I was.

It doesn't matter what we have we always want more...If we're not winning we need to win every game...once we win almost every game...we need to win every game in style. If we win 2-1 it should have been 4 or 5....after all it's only Scotland.

I want the team to play attractive , effective, possession football. I want that philosophy from bottom to top...to start with the youth teams. I want them to have been playing that way for 6 years before those good enough even make the first team. I want us to bring in players who suit that style...all comfortable on the ball. 

If the results suffer in the short to medium term then so be it, I've had almost everything else as a Rangers fan and it was never enough...so perhaps this will be  

 

 

We are not miles away you or i but  do see things differently, i want to win you seem to think winning and a good style of football can't be achieved i think it can but we need a manager who can motivate the players we do not have that now.

Can you honestly say Warburton team looks better now than it did at the start of his tenure and he's improved it i can't.

[Bobby Hume 13,022]

28 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

I do want the best. It the best of "what" we disagree with. I don't think grinding out turgid 1-0 wins with the players terrified to misplace a pass or make a mistake is the best of anything...yes that will attract a new breed of fans won't it!

I've been fortunate enough to watch 9IAR, and the Advocaat era

and all I ever wanted after about season 5 in 9IAR was success in Europe. I remember winning one title and it was just expected, it was no big deal, hardly any celebration at all...I look back now and realise what an absolute tit I was.

It doesn't matter what we have we always want more...If we're not winning we need to win every game...once we win almost every game...we need to win every game in style. If we win 2-1 it should have been 4 or 5....after all it's only Scotland.

I want the team to play attractive , effective, possession football. I want that philosophy from bottom to top...to start with the youth teams. I want them to have been playing that way for 6 years before those good enough even make the first team. I want us to bring in players who suit that style...all comfortable on the ball. 

If the results suffer in the short to medium term then so be it, I've had almost everything else as a Rangers fan and it was never enough...so perhaps this will be  

Cracking post BA ..... says it all ....

[Big Al 55 9,248]

7 minutes ago, Smile said:

We are not miles away you or i but  do see things differently, i want to win you seem to think winning and a good style of football can't be achieved i think it can but we need a manager who can motivate the players we do not have that now.

Can you honestly say Warburton team looks better now than it did at the start of his tenure and he's improved it i can't.

It can't, not in less than 18 months with an entirely new  board, new management team and new set of players. It can however be achieved with a little patience. I just think some are being a little unrealistic. I do understand why.

The choice is change the formation and sacrifice the intended style of play to win more games, or stick to the game plan, hopefully the possession will become more effective resulting in more wins. It's a work in progress.

[Smile 26,600]

36 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

It can't, not in less than 18 months with an entirely new  board, new management team and new set of players. It can however be achieved with a little patience. I just think some are being a little unrealistic. I do understand why.

The choice is change the formation and sacrifice the intended style of play to win more games, or stick to the game plan, hopefully the possession will become more effective resulting in more wins. It's a work in progress.

 

But surely he could have sorted simple stuff like the defence and become a wee bit more tactically aware, he's still making the same mistakes he did against St Johnstone and Hibs and a host of other clubs. I think posters on here had ideas of what Warburton brings, it was youth fast flowing football good possession and finding young talent who maybe weren't getting their chance at their current club, he's now dropped that went with slower older less mobile players and a backline most Pensioners could outrun, i for one don't see the Progression at all, I'd say he's taken us back the way with the signing of older players and injured players.

I'm betting in January most will see he's not good enough for us and want him gone.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

47 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

It can't, not in less than 18 months with an entirely new  board, new management team and new set of players. It can however be achieved with a little patience. I just think some are being a little unrealistic. I do understand why.

The choice is change the formation and sacrifice the intended style of play to win more games, or stick to the game plan, hopefully the possession will become more effective resulting in more wins. It's a work in progress.

You are making brilliant points, it's just a pity you are making them in this argument. There is too much sense in what you say, but not only that, these are important points you highlight about where we have been as a club/supporters, and our present situation. Cheers.

[coopsleftboot 5,512]

14 minutes ago, Smile said:

But surely he could have sorted simple stuff like the defence and become a wee bit more tactically aware, he's still making the same mistakes he did against St Johnstone and Hibs and a host of other clubs. I think posters on here had ideas of what Warburton brings, it was youth fast flowing football good possession and finding young talent who maybe weren't getting their chance at their current club, he's now dropped that went with slower older less mobile players and a backline most Pensioners could outrun, i for one don't see the Progression at all, I'd say he's taken us back the way with the signing of older players and injured players.

I'm betting in January most will see he's not good enough for us and want him gone.

If that's the case, then in my view "most" will have adopted short-sighted vision in a desire for "instant-fix" management that can be expensive and is in danger of taking us back down a well-trodden path that could lead us to somewhere we've just came back from.  The club (and finances) are still fragile at the moment and I don't think it's a risk we should even contemplate at this time.