Director of football

[TMB 14,167]

Just now, Tenerife Bear said:

I must have put that across wrong, you are the 2nd person to say that. I didn't mean that. Of course we need scouts, every club does. But right now, we need a team who can beat Celtic. We don't need worldwide scouting to do that. We don't need to scour the planet for the next 6 months before we can sign a better player than Andy Halliday or Jason Holt. 

We need people at the club who are able to identify quality players at value.  A DoF who has a proven track record when it comes to player acquisition would help us do that.  We don't really know how Pedro would do in the transfer market and is that a chance we can really afford to take?  What if he gets it wrong?

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

15 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

We clearly do.....

Where are we going to get players to catch them? League one down south? Some scottish premiership flops? League one in Portugal? Because that's about the extent of what we have here just now.

If you think the above will catch the tims you are living in a bubble. 

To be fair, Pedro has managed in the Portuguese top flight and Mexican top flight as well as being an assistant in the Romanian and Greek top flight. He should have a vast knowledge of the players in these leagues that could potentially improve us but whether he gets funds that make them realistic targets is the issue we have.

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

Thinking some DoF or super scout is going to come and instantly identify the 10 players or so needed to catch Celtic is funny. We've been there with McParland. We went through years of Wullie Mckay being our best scout and he was a fucking agent. We've relied on guys like John Brown and Maurice Johnston recommending us players.  But now all of a sudden this shower of shite board who can't even appoint a proper manager are going to head hunt a scout(s) capable of finding the players of the quality and affordability we need, this summer. It's utter nonsense. The type of moonbeams Dave King likes to spout. 

What did Walter Smith do when he took over from PLG? He identified players he knew who could do that job. Our scouting back then was non existent as well but it didn't stop him being successful or finding players good enough. Players we all knew of too. Who were good enough to go on and win 3IAR. McCullochs, Thomsons, Naismiths, Weirs, Mendes etc etc. Bringing Kenny Miller back. Walter said when he took over he wanted to sign the best Scottish players available and did that. 

I think some fans think this new super scout or DoF is going to bring in a team of Victor Wanyamas or Van Dijks this summer. It's absolute nonsense. 

To think there isn't any players out there that we know that are good enough or better than what we have right now is also, utter nonsense. 

[The Godfather 71,715]

1 minute ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

To be fair, Pedro has managed in the Portuguese top flight and Mexican top flight as well as being an assistant in the Romanian and Greek top flight. He should have a vast knowledge of the players in these leagues that could potentially improve us but whether he gets funds that make them realistic targets is the issue we have.

The Greek league is mince mate, it' a far cry from where we were playing Olympiakos and co. The national team is terrible too. Romanian football is baws. 

Mexican league I have no clue of but other than Javier Hernandez can you name me a top player from there without google? 

Even still he might have managed in them but that was a while back and he was just that a manager. We need folk with experience of watching players, gathering knowledge and having scouted for years. 

What we have just now is a complete joke. 

[Gman36 3,455]

25 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

What is our budget? You don't know what we have. 

Scouting takes time. That's along term thing. Our need is here and now. 

Not to sign a team in the short term to catch Celtic, no. Scouting is long term and our club don't have long term. Celtic need stopped now. 

It's the short term approach which is dooming us to long term mediocrity. 

Short term approach is Clint Hill, Krancjar etc year after year. Brings us up to a decent standard, yes. Second place probably guaranteed. But bringing in guys with no potential long term profit means the gradual decline we're witnessing at present. 

The long term approach will be more painful in the short term, but it'll be what's needed if we genuinely want to get back to where we were before the shit hit the fan. 

[The Godfather 71,715]

2 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

Thinking some DoF or super scout is going to come and instantly identify the 10 players or so needed to catch Celtic is funny.

Thinking we don't need a scouting network to challenge or catch the tims is even funnier.

Thinking we can just magically identify quality players for fuck all money to challenge them without a network is hilarious.

This isn't Football Manager where you can stick in some filters and find the best young players in football, it actually takes scouting networks to do this otherwise why would clubs have them?

I can't help but think you really have no grasp of how professional recruitment within football works. 

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

Just now, Gman36 said:

It's the short term approach which is dooming us to long term mediocrity. 

Short term approach is Clint Hill, Krancjar etc year after year. Brings us up to a decent standard, yes. Second place probably guaranteed. But bringing in guys with no potential long term profit means the gradual decline we're witnessing at present. 

The long term approach will be more painful in the short term, but it'll be what's needed if we genuinely want to get back to where we were before the shit hit the fan. 

Our ship is sinking, we need steadied. If it takes a steady hand to stop us declining then that is what we need. That is why the PC appointment was so ridiculous. We've had 6 years of some of the worst seasons this club has ever endured, fans are not going to hang about for another 5 or 6 hoping some fancy dan scout or DoF can strike lucky with a squad f signings which can maybe catch Celtic. 

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,638]

A director of football? Dear god in heaven I fucking despair I really do !

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

Just now, The Godfather said:

Thinking we don't need a scouting network to challenge or catch the tims is even funnier.

Thinking we can just magically identify quality players for fuck all money to challenge them without a network is hilarious.

This isn't Football Manager where you can stick in some filters and find the best young players in football, it actually takes scouting networks to do this otherwise why would clubs have them?

I can't help but think you really have no grasp of how professional recruitment within football works. 

I don't think that. I explained that earlier. 

It doesn't take magic to spot a player better than Scott Brown. And no one said it will be done free or cheap. 

Steady clubs utilise scouting networks the world over. We are not a steady club. We are a shambles. A scouting network is necessary yes but right now to do what we need? No. We need a manager with enough contacts in the game to stop our ship sinking. The scouting network can run in the background and do it's own work for the long term but right now, we need players immediately to compete with Celtic. Players any manager worth his salt would be able to identify himself, just as Walter did not so long ago. 

It will take money and it needs a manager with contacts and clout. I doubt OC has either. We know the board certainly don't. 

[Gman36 3,455]

1 minute ago, Tenerife Bear said:

Our ship is sinking, we need steadied. If it takes a steady hand to stop us declining then that is what we need. That is why the PC appointment was so ridiculous. We've had 6 years of some of the worst seasons this club has ever endured, fans are not going to hang about for another 5 or 6 hoping some fancy dan scout or DoF can strike lucky with a squad f signings which can maybe catch Celtic. 

Well in that case we're probably fucked. 

Only other alternative I could see which would bring success would be a purge of all the folk at the top of the company, everyone who has been involved in the last ten years or so. Someone comes in with money who the fans can trust, and then the fans also put a significant amount of money in. Persuade 20,000 fans to put £1,000 each in, that's £20 million. The figurehead puts in £10-20 million too. That's the only way I can see us getting back. 

[The Godfather 71,715]

Just now, Tenerife Bear said:

I don't think that. I explained that earlier. 

It doesn't take magic to spot a player better than Scott Brown. And no one said it will be done free or cheap. 

Steady clubs utilise scouting networks the world over. We are not a steady club. We are a shambles. A scouting network is necessary yes but right now to do what we need? No. We need a manager with enough contacts in the game to stop our ship sinking. The scouting network can run in the background and do it's own work for the long term but right now, we need players immediately to compete with Celtic. Players any manager worth his salt would be able to identify himself, just as Walter did not so long ago. 

It will take money and it needs a manager with contacts and clout. I doubt OC has either. We know the board certainly don't. 

Who's spotting that player then?

Pedro when we are facing Calley Thistle or Hamilton? Brown as shite as he is is several levels above anything else in this shit pit in terms of midfield. 

Is it JJ when he was at Motherwell or with the national team? 
 

Is it Stevie fae accounts who watched the Championship highlights at the weekend?

You make it sound like it's easy to just identify a player with no means in place to do it in the correct and proven way clubs have been doing for donkeys. 

You actually need to watch a player for a number of games against all sorts of opposition, situations to judge if they can cope with the expectations and type of football we play and face in Scotland. That's why scouting is vital to identify who fit's in with what we do....otherwise you end up with dross like Halliday, Waghorn, Windass and the likes we have now. 

If you think we can just go out and find players who can win the league without proper processes in place then fair enough, I can't fathom that kind of lunacy. 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

10 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

The Greek league is mince mate, it' a far cry from where we were playing Olympiakos and co. The national team is terrible too. Romanian football is baws. 

Mexican league I have no clue of but other than Javier Hernandez can you name me a top player from there without google? 

Even still he might have managed in them but that was a while back and he was just that a manager. We need folk with experience of watching players, gathering knowledge and having scouted for years. 

What we have just now is a complete joke. 

I know nothing of Greek, Romanian or Mexican football in all honesty but he should, that's my point.

Admittedly they aren't the most glamourous leagues in the world but look at what we're playing in. There must be some players in those leagues that could come to Scotland and do a job.

Maybe that's just blind optimism from me, I just couldn't face another transfer window of us taking the dregs from our own league and England's lower divisions.

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

Just now, Gman36 said:

Well in that case we're probably fucked. 

Only other alternative I could see which would bring success would be a purge of all the folk at the top of the company, everyone who has been involved in the last ten years or so. Someone comes in with money who the fans can trust, and then the fans also put a significant amount of money in. Persuade 20,000 fans to put £1,000 each in, that's £20 million. The figurehead puts in £10-20 million too. That's the only way I can see us getting back. 

If this board do not invest huge sums this summer we are fucked. that's the bottom line. Moonbeams of anything else long term or on the cheap are not going to wash with 40000+ season ticket holders. Money is the only thing that can fix this problem. It was the solution when they took over 2 years ago and today, it's still the solution and it will continue to be the only solution until we finally do get back on a level playing field with Celtic and start competing with Celtic. 

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

1 hour ago, Tenerife Bear said:

I don't think it is important at all at the minute. Our club is broken top to bottom and we have far more pressing things to deal with than adding another big wage onto our payroll. 

FFS, I'll say!

[Tenerife Bear 1,748]

1 minute ago, The Godfather said:

Who's spotting that player then?

Pedro when we are facing Calley Thistle or Hamilton? Brown as shite as he is is several levels above anything else in this shit pit in terms of midfield. 

Is it JJ when he was at Motherwell or with the national team? 
 

Is it Stevie fae accounts who watched the Championship highlights at the weekend?

You make it sound like it's easy to just identify a player with no means in place to do it in the correct and proven way clubs have been doing for donkeys. 

You actually need to watch a player for a number of games against all sorts of opposition, situations to judge if they can cope with the expectations and type of football we play and face in Scotland. That's why scouting is vital to identify who fit's in with what we do....otherwise you end up with dross like Halliday, Waghorn, Windass and the likes we have now. 

If you think we can just go out and find players who can win the league without proper processes in place then fair enough, I can't fathom that kind of lunacy. 

Aye, Walter Smith was a lunatic......jeez. I'm out. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

1 hour ago, five stars said:

What's the remit of a director of football? I'm not sure we need one.

What we do need is an extensive scouting network which covers more than the English leagues.

Well that would be one of his jobs to get sorted. 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

7 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

I don't think that. I explained that earlier. 

It doesn't take magic to spot a player better than Scott Brown. And no one said it will be done free or cheap. 

Steady clubs utilise scouting networks the world over. We are not a steady club. We are a shambles. A scouting network is necessary yes but right now to do what we need? No. We need a manager with enough contacts in the game to stop our ship sinking. The scouting network can run in the background and do it's own work for the long term but right now, we need players immediately to compete with Celtic. Players any manager worth his salt would be able to identify himself, just as Walter did not so long ago. 

It will take money and it needs a manager with contacts and clout. I doubt OC has either. We know the board certainly don't. 

Tell us who we sign then?

Then once you've done that tell us a better creative midfielder than Armstrong and a better striker than what they have up front too because both Dembele and the thumb put our current strikers to shame.

A better winger than Roberts or Sinclair would be nice as well since it's so easy to pluck players out of thin air.

[five stars 1,635]

45 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

What is our budget? You don't know what we have. 

Scouting takes time. That's along term thing. Our need is here and now. 

Not to sign a team in the short term to catch Celtic, no. Scouting is long term and our club don't have long term. Celtic need stopped now. 

I don't know what our budget is, in 2016 we must of spent around 3m in transfer fees. As we're in Europe this year (potential more income) let say a budger of 4m in transfer fees for this summer. 

So with a 4m bud, name the players you would buy which would allows us to compete with them?

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Well that would be one of his jobs to get sorted. 

Doesn't Whitney have experience in this role? I'm sure he's the Director of some football academy? I'd back him.

 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, Blue Avenger said:

Doesn't Whitney have experience in this role? I'm sure he's the Director of some football academy? I'd back him.

 

Don't joke about that, it could maybe come true. 

[Gman36 3,455]

2 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

If this board do not invest huge sums this summer we are fucked. that's the bottom line. Moonbeams of anything else long term or on the cheap are not going to wash with 40000+ season ticket holders. Money is the only thing that can fix this problem. It was the solution when they took over 2 years ago and today, it's still the solution and it will continue to be the only solution until we finally do get back on a level playing field with Celtic and start competing with Celtic. 

If our support are that fickle that something needs to happen next season or else there will be a mass drop off in season ticket sales then the clubs natural level will be lower than what it was before we left the top div. 

I think we both agree a large investment is needed at some point. Its worrying but I suspect that the only place it will come from is mass supporter investment, unless a supporter happens to become a billionaire in the near future. 

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

said at the time it wasn't going to happen and here we are....

far more important positions on the park are needing filled this moment in time.

[The Godfather 71,715]

8 minutes ago, Tenerife Bear said:

Aye, Walter Smith was a lunatic......jeez. I'm out. 

Walter Smith who was given the best part of £20 million to spend gathering a team from down south and likewise? 

You do realize our situation don't you? You do know we don't have a fucking penny?

[five stars 1,635]

As our funds are limilted and we're not able to go out and spend big, to bring in top drawer players.

That's why we need to get the scouting right. There is quality and value out there, they're just harder to find the less money you have to spend.

[The Godfather 71,715]

8 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

Tell us who we sign then?

Then once you've done that tell us a better creative midfielder than Armstrong and a better striker than what they have up front too because both Dembele and the thumb put our current strikers to shame.

A better winger than Roberts or Sinclair would be nice as well since it's so easy to pluck players out of thin air.

He can't. 

But he will shout till he's purple in the face that we don't need a scouting system because it's so easy to identify players with fuck all money.