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2 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I think £20M spent  would do it easily and I base that on some facts not a figure plucked out the air as follows:

 

Celtics first team squad who played against Barca recently:

CELTIC : Dorus de Vries (Nottingham Forest, £100,000), Mikael Lustig (Rosenborg, pre-contract), Kolo Toure (Liverpool, free), Erik Sviatchenko (FC Midtjylland, £1.5m), Kieran Tierney, (Home grown, free), Scott Brown (Hibs, £4.4m), (Callum McGregor (Home grown, free), Nir Bitton (FC Ashdod, £700,000), James Forrest (Home grown, free), (Patrick Roberts (Manchester City, loan), Tom Rogic (Central Coast Mariners, £500,000), (Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd, £1.75m), Scott Sinclair (Aston Villa, £4m), Moussa Dembele (Fulham, £500,000).

UNUSED SUBS: Craig Gordon (Free), Emilio Izaguirre (Motagua, £650,000), Nadir Ciftci (Dundee Utd, £1.5m), Cristian Gamboa (WBA, £1m).

TOTAL: £16.6m.

 

and thats an entire squad

 

What would they realistically sell for?

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2 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I think £20M spent  would do it easily and I base that on some facts not a figure plucked out the air as follows:

 

Celtics first team squad who played against Barca recently:

CELTIC : Dorus de Vries (Nottingham Forest, £100,000), Mikael Lustig (Rosenborg, pre-contract), Kolo Toure (Liverpool, free), Erik Sviatchenko (FC Midtjylland, £1.5m), Kieran Tierney, (Home grown, free), Scott Brown (Hibs, £4.4m), (Callum McGregor (Home grown, free), Nir Bitton (FC Ashdod, £700,000), James Forrest (Home grown, free), (Patrick Roberts (Manchester City, loan), Tom Rogic (Central Coast Mariners, £500,000), (Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd, £1.75m), Scott Sinclair (Aston Villa, £4m), Moussa Dembele (Fulham, £500,000).

UNUSED SUBS: Craig Gordon (Free), Emilio Izaguirre (Motagua, £650,000), Nadir Ciftci (Dundee Utd, £1.5m), Cristian Gamboa (WBA, £1m).

TOTAL: £16.6m.

 

and thats an entire squad

 

Spot on.

 

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9 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

Doesn't matter who says how much money we need it's not going to change the fact that King has none.

He needs chased and hopefully the protest that's supposedly happening this week will be the start of that. 

Protest? Must've missed this mate

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9 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

Doesn't matter who says how much money we need it's not going to change the fact that King has none.

He needs chased and hopefully the protest that's supposedly happening this week will be the start of that. 

Protest?

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2 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

8 trillion bazillion demebele dollars at todays exchange rate

 

 

 

 

Fair point.

But every year they have those saleable assets that we don't.

They have a track record of doing it and we clearly don't.

Ignore if you prefer to though.

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3 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

why would that be relavant?- all kidding aside they inflate their player costs massively.

Yeah but they still bring in 4, 5 10 millions here and there.

Inflated or not that's been real profit.

And whilst we're trying to find our 5 to 15 million to have the squad to overtake them they can sell, recoup, reinvest. It's a factor that can't be ignored even if they over inflate the first sale price.

That's why I think WH has went higher than what most of us feel is a realistic snapshot figure.

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Just now, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Yeah but they still bring in 4, 5 10 millions here and there.

Inflated or not that's been real profit.

And whilst we're trying to find our 5 to 15 million to have the squad to overtake them they can sell, recoup, reinvest. It's a factor that can't be ignored even if the over inflate the first sale price.

 

but surely once we get that level of squad in, we can sell, recoup, reinvest exactly the same as them. This issue at the moment is getting to that level of squad - not what we do with it once we have it.

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22 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I think £20M spent  would do it easily and I base that on some facts not a figure plucked out the air as follows:

 

Celtics first team squad who played against Barca recently:

CELTIC : Dorus de Vries (Nottingham Forest, £100,000), Mikael Lustig (Rosenborg, pre-contract), Kolo Toure (Liverpool, free), Erik Sviatchenko (FC Midtjylland, £1.5m), Kieran Tierney, (Home grown, free), Scott Brown (Hibs, £4.4m), (Callum McGregor (Home grown, free), Nir Bitton (FC Ashdod, £700,000), James Forrest (Home grown, free), (Patrick Roberts (Manchester City, loan), Tom Rogic (Central Coast Mariners, £500,000), (Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd, £1.75m), Scott Sinclair (Aston Villa, £4m), Moussa Dembele (Fulham, £500,000).

UNUSED SUBS: Craig Gordon (Free), Emilio Izaguirre (Motagua, £650,000), Nadir Ciftci (Dundee Utd, £1.5m), Cristian Gamboa (WBA, £1m).

TOTAL: £16.6m.

 

and thats an entire squad

 

There is one major difference to their squad of last year and that is the manager. Someone who can organise a team and actually get them to play football, plus make a real difference with signings . We are yet to experience a decent manager since Smith left. Is Pedro the answer? Based on the weekend I have my doubts but only he can prove me wrong by never applying those tactics again. 

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8 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

but surely once we get that level of squad in, we can sell, recoup, reinvest exactly the same as them. This issue at the moment is getting to that level of squad - not what we do with it once we have it.

So in several season's time you mean...

You can't ignore it.

If we buy say 4/5 players worth 15 million total they could in the summer sell Dembele and buy the same calibre of players. We've not moved any further forward against their squad and they have CL money to come.

We need to spend a fair bit MORE than them to get to that level, it's more about bridging the overall gap rather than saying 15m will do it.

Edit.

I reckon they'll get 10+ for Dembele which is why the transfer cost you highlighted earlier is not a true reflection.

Did you give a general valuation of their squad?

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22 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I think £20M spent  would do it easily and I base that on some facts not a figure plucked out the air as follows:

 

Celtics first team squad who played against Barca recently:

CELTIC : Dorus de Vries (Nottingham Forest, £100,000), Mikael Lustig (Rosenborg, pre-contract), Kolo Toure (Liverpool, free), Erik Sviatchenko (FC Midtjylland, £1.5m), Kieran Tierney, (Home grown, free), Scott Brown (Hibs, £4.4m), (Callum McGregor (Home grown, free), Nir Bitton (FC Ashdod, £700,000), James Forrest (Home grown, free), (Patrick Roberts (Manchester City, loan), Tom Rogic (Central Coast Mariners, £500,000), (Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd, £1.75m), Scott Sinclair (Aston Villa, £4m), Moussa Dembele (Fulham, £500,000).

UNUSED SUBS: Craig Gordon (Free), Emilio Izaguirre (Motagua, £650,000), Nadir Ciftci (Dundee Utd, £1.5m), Cristian Gamboa (WBA, £1m).

TOTAL: £16.6m.

 

and thats an entire squad

 

 

You have to factor in wages too though. Their average wage per year is over double what ours is (£717, 860 for them and £316,888 for us)

We need the 10-15 million to sign players but we need the same again added to the wage budget because a 2-3 million pound signing probably costs you closer to 4-6 million in total when you factor in their wages over the course of a three or four deal.

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1 minute ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

So in several season's time you mean...

You can't ignore it.

If we buy say 4/5 players worth 15 million total they could in the summer sell Dembele and buy the same calibre of players. We've not moved any further forward against their squad and they have CL money to come.

We need to spend a fair bit MORE than them to get to that level, it's more about bridging the overall gap rather than saying 15m will do it.

 

no i dont agree - because once we have that calibre of player in we could do exactly what they do with dembele. As I say it getting to that level thats the issue. I dont see how us shelling out £15 million would not move us any further forward against their squad  - that makes no sense. Them buying the same calibre of player means they stay where they are. Us buying that calibre of player moves us forward considerably.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

He was quite vocal towards King at the start of the season on here, too. He was totally correct then.

I agree with his narrative/tone/gist but not the figure of 50-million. 

15-million spent well would get us competing with Celtic again IMO and by spent well I mean players like Davis, Mendes, Cuellar, Naismith, Bougherra, Jelavic, Miller (second time round), Cousin etc. They were all 1-4 million each.

I know there's an argument saying you can't get players for those prices anymore but I think you can, if you spend wisely. I appreciate it's easier said than done but that's where a good scouting department comes in which we need to assemble too. 

You would need to be prepared to lose up to 15 million to assemble a good squad, taking in to consideration bad signings, getting rid of current players and also an inflated wage bill. I can understand what you are saying but in reality the final figure would be a lot higher.

I think WH is basically tell Kingco, that if they are not prepared to invest then they need to go, as it is never going to get any better.

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9 minutes ago, A.T.G said:

There is one major difference to their squad of last year and that is the manager. Someone who can organise a team and actually get them to play football, plus make a real difference with signings . We are yet to experience a decent manager since Smith left. Is Pedro the answer? Based on the weekend I have my doubts but only he can prove me wrong by never applying those tactics again. 

His signings have been horrendous.

Dembele isnt his. The rest are deilas mob. 

Most of his signings can't get a game. I'm.choking for him to spend big there

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8 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

no i dont agree - because once we have that calibre of player in we could do exactly what they do with dembele. As I say it getting to that level thats the issue. I dont see how us shelling out £15 million would not move us any further forward against their squad  - that makes no sense. Them buying the same calibre of player means they stay where they are. Us buying that calibre of player moves us forward considerably.

 

 

Because it is players we'd rely on whilst it supplements their first team and squad. Whilst both sets of signings develop, they sell a Tierney for 5 million, a Sinclair for similar etc.

What if their 15m was spent on 2/3 players who are next level players rather than the 4 we need to try to catch up. Still happy with our 15m?

Edit

Amended after you'd quoted me. What was your valuation of their squad?

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