Sporting Advantage

[bluenose48 951]

The big difference is that it is Celtic doing this and not us.

Can you imagine the hue and cry if that had been our directors.

But no it was Celtic, so they are allowed.

[ianferguson 2,619]

Am I correct in saying that all players must provide accounts of all income to the SFA and if so have the tim INGENIOUS film producers provided accounts in relation to these dealings ?

[K.Morris82 7]

6 hours ago, McEwan's Lager said:

But but but but Sevcoooooo

Fuck you too wanker

[McEwan's Lager 30,522]

33 minutes ago, K.Morris82 said:

Fuck you too wanker

Have a lie down, Gwen.

 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

The beggars probably know all this but beggar scum being beggar scum ,will have people already lobbying in the right places 

I think as usual .Some bears won't grasp this 

The head in the sand is what our club are specialists at 

Maybe this time ,they will be pro active rather than reactive as the latter may be too late 

[hammer93 15,057]

11 hours ago, NixonRFC said:

As much as I'd love this to be our avenue at a comeback this has nothing to do with the tims, it has everything to do with former tim players and what they did with their wages but as a club it has fuck all to do with them so while its be nice to see te taxman chase up all those bastards the club as always won't be dragged into it.

Disagree slightly......their is no doubt that the players were steered towards these schemes by the club.....where they are clever is based on the fact that hmrc will pursue the individual which has the tims believing they have done fuck all wrong, the upshot is that all these players were steered towards these schemes with a view to getting tax relief in an underhanded manner......it all equates to the same but yet their seems to be very little clamour from the media to question the moral background the same way the have with ebts.

[centenarystand 2,227]

Said it before. If we want to go down the road of even thinking of removing trophies then every club needs to have all employees contracts and tax arrangements looked into with a fine tooth comb. That includes  England too. Only a fucken moon howler would believe Rangers were dealing from under the table and every other club is squeaky clean.

[GWR1979 1,964]

10 hours ago, Ibroxholm said:

Take your point but it does make the individuals involved in these schemes absolute hypocrites to have a go at us for the same.  Having seen some of the utterances of these individuals against us, I find it incredible that no media outlet has linked the two to highlight this hypocrisy.

Lawell has the media in this country in his pocket. If you look at the coverage of our tax issues against there ingenious film schemes it tells you everything that you need to know. They wouldn't even be reporting it if it wasn't UK news, the same goes for the pedo ring which was working inside Celtic if it hadn't become UK news it would never have been reported, even when they have reported it they have tried to pull us into it. 

[GMacK 26]

3 hours ago, eejay the dj said:

The beggars probably know all this but beggar scum being beggar scum ,will have people already lobbying in the right places 

I think as usual .Some bears won't grasp this 

The head in the sand is what our club are specialists at 

Maybe this time ,they will be pro active rather than reactive as the latter may be too late 

Never mind, the RFFF money bought some nice toilets.

Had that project been started yet?

[Cathcart Ranger 8]

Brilliant piece but the deep down answer to the unwashed bringing this up is they can't accept wee are the people 

[Bears 792]

Most likely we would have simply paid the same players more without the EBT system.

We would have had higher debts.

All would have been fine if Lloyds had not later decided to squeeze Murray.

There would have been no going bust if whyte had not messed us about.

So what are they going on about?

(These points cast enough doubt that no authority could remove anything from us unless they are being controlled by a vested interest in doing so.)

[Virtuoso 27,180]

20 minutes ago, GMacK said:

Never mind, the RFFF money bought some nice toilets.

Had that project been started yet?

Have a read of this and weep:

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?1113802-RFFF-amp-That-stupid-stand

[ianferguson 2,619]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/spfl/15396483.Celtic_legend_Davie_Hay_urges_authorities_to_be_strong_and_consider_stripping_titles_from_Rangers/

FFS how desperate is this guy to get some back slapping from ǝpɐbıɹq uǝǝɹb ǝɥʇ. He should spend half an hour on the internet to find out about the real tax evaders in football .How about Messi , Neymar , Ronaldo or Mourinho for starters or how about Athletico Madrid who never went into administration  despite being in six times more debt than Rangers and are still in the process of paying off £171 M pounds in unpaid taxes .How about Mascherano and Di Maria both getting fines and 1 year suspended jail sentences for tax evasion,not tax avoidance. How about The Italian football scandal where 64 players are accused of tax  evasion  or the 180 EPL players who're avoiding tax through image rights or how about coming closer to home and maybe Davie Hay is the only living celt who's not produced a fuc*ing movie ,maybe he's not that "INGENIOUS" or just may be he's too fuc*in old to work the internet and that's also why he's talking so much utter shite.

[GMacK 26]

14 minutes ago, Virtuoso said:

Have a read of this and weep:

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?1113802-RFFF-amp-That-stupid-stand

Ooft. Gave up after a couple of pages.  Mark certainly doesn't believe in listening to the fans does he? The sooner real fans get a voice instead of folk looking out for their own interests, the better

[kelvd1873 7,159]

15 hours ago, Gman36 said:

 

The tax avoidance scheme we used probably brought about a marginal "sporting advantage", in that the accumulated sum of money over the seasons might have got us one or two extra players....

I'm not having a go in any way mate but I dont understand what you mean by this? What accumulated sum of money? The way I gather it our ebt payments were the players wage paid into a trust without deducting the tax percentage. So say we paid an player £500k a year, we paid them £500k into their trust without deducting tax as we were advised at the time. Am I correct in thinking this way?

[kelvd1873 7,159]

10 hours ago, Hutton2008 said:

But when cunts like SDM (under oath) and Big eck come out and say we couldnt afford the players otherwise it feeds the bheasts and rodent media.

Iirc Murray said we "may" not have afforded them. Not a definite we would not have afforded them, big big difference

[Gman36 3,455]

1 hour ago, kelvd1873 said:

I'm not having a go in any way mate but I dont understand what you mean by this? What accumulated sum of money? The way I gather it our ebt payments were the players wage paid into a trust without deducting the tax percentage. So say we paid an player £500k a year, we paid them £500k into their trust without deducting tax as we were advised at the time. Am I correct in thinking this way?

Yeah I was meaning theoretically if you added up the money we saved over the years it would add up to a sum of money that could have paid for one or maybe two players. That would be a worst case scenario in terms of "sporting advantage". But finances don't work in that way anyway so it's a redundant argument. Plus all the players who joined us wanted to play here anyway so the fact we saved a bit of money on tax is irrelevant. 

[bertybobo 29]

Bobby Petta - The Film Develpment Partnership II LLP - Feb '04
Chris Sutton - WRP Dryvac LLP - Aug '04
John Hartson - The Mamjam Technology Platform Partnership LLP - Apr '03
Neil Lennon - The Mamjam Technology Platform Partnership LLP - Apr '03
John Harston - The Casedirector Technology Partnership LLP  - Apr '03
Neil Lennon - The Casedirector Technology Partnership LLP  - Apr '03
Neil Lennon - Ingenious Film Partners 2 LLP - Apr '03
Momo Sylla - Inside Track 1 LLP - Dec '03
Momo Sylla - Ingenious Film Partners LLP - Mar '05
Eric Riley - Inside Track 3 LLP - Jul '03
Johan Mjallby - Malvern Media LLP - Dec '02
Johan Mjallby - Jubilee Film Partnership LLP - Mar '05
Martin O'Neill - Inside Track 2 LLP - Dec '03
Martin O'Neill - Inside Track 3 LLP - Dec '03
Peter Lawwell - Inside Track 3 LLP - Dec '03
Alan Thompson - Owen Film Partnership LLP - Apr '06
Alan Thompson - The Film Development Partnership II - Sep '03
Alan Thompson - D IV LLP - Sep '03
Stan Varga - The Gala Film Partners LLP - Feb '04
Stan Varga - Innvotec 3 LLP - Mar '05
Stan Varga - Innvotec 6 LLP - Mar '05
Stan Varga - The Invicta Film Partnership No 23 LLP - Mar '06
Craig Bellamy - Cherwell Films LLP - Mar '05
Craig Bellamy - Orwell Films LLP - Mar '05

Players and staff involved in the film production tax scam.

P.S.  Fuck Davie Hay !

[kelvd1873 7,159]

38 minutes ago, Gman36 said:

Yeah I was meaning theoretically if you added up the money we saved over the years it would add up to a sum of money that could have paid for one or maybe two players. That would be a worst case scenario in terms of "sporting advantage". But finances don't work in that way anyway so it's a redundant argument. Plus all the players who joined us wanted to play here anyway so the fact we saved a bit of money on tax is irrelevant. 

Again not having a go at you but what money did ebt's save us? I don't understand, i might have got this wrong but I'll explain another way. If we paid mr x £500k with an ebt per annum it would be beneficial to him at the time as he would have more money in his back pocket due to no tax being deducted. 

 

Now if if we signed mr y and paid him £500k but as paye his payments would be subject to tax. So for arguments sake let's say 40%. So mr y gets paid £500k per annum but 40% never reaches him as it goes to HMRC as tax. Where is the money we as a club have saved? We still pay the same amount nett regardless of the tax benefits.

[jintybear 8,536]

20 minutes ago, kelvd1873 said:

Again not having a go at you but what money did ebt's save us? I don't understand, i might have got this wrong but I'll explain another way. If we paid mr x £500k with an ebt per annum it would be beneficial to him at the time as he would have more money in his back pocket due to no tax being deducted. 

 

Now if if we signed mr y and paid him £500k but as paye his payments would be subject to tax. So for arguments sake let's say 40%. So mr y gets paid £500k per annum but 40% never reaches him as it goes to HMRC as tax. Where is the money we as a club have saved? We still pay the same amount nett regardless of the tax benefits.

I think what the haters are saying is that the player wouldn't have came if they had to pay the 40% tax, therefore, we would have had to pay the tax for them as well as the gross amount.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,137]

30 minutes ago, kelvd1873 said:

Again not having a go at you but what money did ebt's save us? I don't understand, i might have got this wrong but I'll explain another way. If we paid mr x £500k with an ebt per annum it would be beneficial to him at the time as he would have more money in his back pocket due to no tax being deducted. 

 

Now if if we signed mr y and paid him £500k but as paye his payments would be subject to tax. So for arguments sake let's say 40%. So mr y gets paid £500k per annum but 40% never reaches him as it goes to HMRC as tax. Where is the money we as a club have saved? We still pay the same amount nett regardless of the tax benefits.

I think the club saved some money by not having to pay as much in their share of PAYE, it's irrelevant anyway, they accuse us of cheating, how can it be cheating when the club were only trying to reduce their tax bill for itself and it's employees, everyone has the right to do that, the club were advised that the scheme was legal and HMRC begged to differ years after it was in operation.

As I see it a cheat is someone who knows that they are not playing by the rules, the club thought they were playing within the rules, they made a mistake, they made an offer to HMRC (something many businesses do) who in turn rejected it. They were after bigger fish down south.

Don't forget EBT's were available to all who had the cash to set them up and run them in the correct way

[kelvd1873 7,159]

38 minutes ago, ritchieshearercaldow said:

I think the club saved some money by not having to pay as much in their share of PAYE, it's irrelevant anyway

Yep your right mate it is irrelevant and I agree with the rest of your post but I dont know if I'm thick or what but I can't understand how the club saved any money as such having used ebt's! If we pay a player his full salary per month or weekly whatever, if there's no tax deducted we're giving him his full amount of pay. If he agrees a salary of £500k per annum when signing, at the end of the first year we have paid him £500k because no tax has been deducted ala paye.  Do you get what I mean? Or have I got this all wrong?

I can see the argument that if we pocketed the said 40% of someone's pay for tax and used it to run the club etc and not pay hmrc with it. Like whyte did!!! I'm not trying to argue btw I come in peace lol???

[kelvd1873 7,159]

1 hour ago, jintybear said:

I think what the haters are saying is that the player wouldn't have came if they had to pay the 40% tax, therefore, we would have had to pay the tax for them as well as the gross amount.

Right I see what your saying, tbh to me that seems ridiculous (I know your just pointing it out) because who in their right mind goes to a job interview for a £30k job and says yeah nah I actually want you to give me £30k after tax,,,,, ah ok then sir sign this ebt!! I read it like this,,, we will offer you £30k per annum nett but we have an attractive tax deduction scheme which through the use of loaning your money to you through a trust, will greatly reduce your taxable %.

[hammer93 15,057]

1 hour ago, jintybear said:

I think what the haters are saying is that the player wouldn't have came if they had to pay the 40% tax, therefore, we would have had to pay the tax for them as well as the gross amount.

If memory serves me correct in the case of Stefan klos, he engineered his own move to Rangers because he wanted to bring his family to Scotland and send the kids to private school over here, I'm not sure what part an ebt had in persuading him but I reckon they were part and parcel of most players agreements based on the fact they were legal to use at the time

[hammer93 15,057]

I'm no expert on the tax laws but were we just fortunate to receive the information on ebts......imagine that Rangers been exclusive in a tax avoidance scheme......the answer to that is no off course....ebts were being used in England by many a club that's why hmrc tried so hard to get a ruling that they were actually illegal.

We have been the guinea pigs in this whole saga, many a club owner will be expecting the chap on the door from the tax man in the coming years, we are not unique in this case we are just the first club to be targetted.

Whether it's ebts, bogus film companies or lack of corporation tax being paid it all amounts to the same.