Virtuoso 27,180 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Quote I write to explain a point of law that has occupied much of my twitter feed for the last couple of days. It may help to say that I am a Queen’s Counsel specialising in tax law. And I have no commercial or personal connection to Rangers (I use that name in a vernaculous rather than a legal sense) or its successor entities or (as far as I am aware) anyone connected with the club or those entities. I have said that it is not accurate to describe Rangers’ use of EBTs as “illegal” or “unlawful”. And here is why. You might think about the purpose of tax law as being to draw lines in the sand: fall on one side of the line and your liability will be (lower) x; fall on the other side and it will be (higher) y. Rangers entered into certain transactions which they hoped and (I understand) expected would attract liability x but which the Supreme Court decided attracted liability y. It is not “illegal” or “unlawful” to attract a higher liability than you want. And nor is it illegal or unlawful to transact to try and attract liability x but to fail and, nevertheless, to attract liability y. We self-assess our liability to tax. Putting it another way, HMRC ask us questions in a self-assessment form, we answer them, and those answers have as their consequence that we owe a particular sum in tax. We also promise HMRC that we believe the answers are right. If we give HMRC answers that lead to the conclusion that we owe x in tax and a court later says that our answers were wrong and we owe y in tax that does not establish, on its own, that we have behaved unlawfully or illegally. It is not unlawful or illegal to make an honest mistake. If, in completing the self-assessment form, we gave answers that we did not believe to be right, we would have behaved unlawfully or illegally. But I am not aware of any evidence that Rangers gave answers in its self-assessment form that it did not believe to be right. And nor, so far as I am aware, is this an allegation that HMRC has advanced. What about a situation where Rangers gave misleading answers to HMRC outside the self-assessment form? Certainly it would be very poor behaviour. And I can imagine circumstances in which this might be unlawful. But, on its own, this fact – if fact it is – does not enable the conclusion to be drawn that Rangers has broken any law. https://waitingfortax.com/2017/07/27/a-short-note-on-tax-law-for-rangers-and-celtic-fans/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEFTONG 60,092 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Glad this chap has taken the time to state the FACTS..But such things matter not a jot to the obsessed haters..They will continue to howl at the moon and likewise bawbags like tom english and his chums will still repeat lies until the Rangers Board take them to task.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 That wee Palestinian prick will be on here shortly ...,,,,, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtuoso 27,180 Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Just now, Deanzmeanzheinz said: That wee Palestinian prick will be on here shortly ...,,,,, Was he not banned? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
With Heart and Hand 8,949 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Dealing in facts now are we? Will never catch on Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryju84 3,170 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Explained in a way that even a numpty like me can understand. I like this Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Hammer of Der Gods 421 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 It wouldn't matter if the head of HMRC, came out and said that himself, they will never accept or believe it, their minds are completely closed to the truth . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyruff 622 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Facts! What's the point of facts. They don't make for an interesting narrative. How can the moonhowlers deal with these? Answer: they won't. They will continue to ignore them and perpetuate the myth instead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchieshearercaldow 22,137 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Aye but, no but. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Virtuoso said: https://waitingfortax.com/2017/07/27/a-short-note-on-tax-law-for-rangers-and-celtic-fans/ ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam1872 251 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 How many times does it need to be said. What the club and MIH did wasn't cheating as it wasn't illegal. Cheating is knowingly breaking of rules. Say HMRC came out with a rule that said clubs should never have been owned by Non UK tax payers. Does that mean that those who were, are retrospectively owned illegally? There is no conspiracy. The most recent judgement went against MIH and for HMRC who retrospectively disagreed with MIH interpretation of EBT use. The difference with us and why I feel there is so much fucking noise is that we didn't settle, we challenged HMRC. Murray had to challenge as MIH couldnt afford to settle. Its naive to suggest we didn't deserve to win those leagues but I do wonder if going back we had just settled with HMRC (taking into account original post in that even settling would not have been a statement of criminal wrongdoing) would we be where now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I read all that guys stuff a while back re us. He is very good and frankly we need a sane voice to counter the absolute hysteria currently circulating in Scotland. Putting Tom English in his place at the same time is an added bonus. Its interesting that this guy is a QC, LNS was QC, 3 other QC's backed up LNS findings, Gerry Moynihan is a QC - and according to the taigs THEY ARE ALL WRONG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Blue Legend 61,449 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I have said that it is not accurate to describe Rangers’ use of EBTs as “illegal” or “unlawful”. And here is why. Aye but Jackie Bird says it is, so there!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theiconicman 2,991 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Virtuoso said: https://waitingfortax.com/2017/07/27/a-short-note-on-tax-law-for-rangers-and-celtic-fans/ Well done that man, unfortunately the obsessed filth with now target him and never leave him alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ibrox Derry 8,904 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Der Hammer of Der Gods said: It wouldn't matter if the head of HMRC, came out and said that himself, they will never accept or believe it, their minds are completely closed to the truth . Its a Roman Catholic thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEPPS BOY 73,890 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Not sure what makes this guy an expert tbh. Think i'll take the word off BBCs egg chasing expert over this guy.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
there'sonlyoneamoruso 1,724 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 It is very simple, but all the Paedos think they know better. Bunch of inbred fuckers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyruff 622 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 hour ago, cushynumber said: I read all that guys stuff a while back re us. He is very good and frankly we need a sane voice to counter the absolute hysteria currently circulating in Scotland. Putting Tom English in his place at the same time is an added bonus. Its interesting that this guy is a QC, LNS was QC, 3 other QC's backed up LNS findings, Gerry Moynihan is a QC - and according to the taigs THEY ARE ALL WRONG QC = Queens Counsel, they'll never take the word of any man of The Queen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbGER 24,518 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 2 hours ago, cushynumber said: I read all that guys stuff a while back re us. He is very good and frankly we need a sane voice to counter the absolute hysteria currently circulating in Scotland. Putting Tom English in his place at the same time is an added bonus. Its interesting that this guy is a QC, LNS was QC, 3 other QC's backed up LNS findings, Gerry Moynihan is a QC - and according to the taigs THEY ARE ALL WRONG Aye but masons Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKCO 103 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Virtuoso said: https://waitingfortax.com/2017/07/27/a-short-note-on-tax-law-for-rangers-and-celtic-fans/ I wish MIH, who administered the fund (NOT Rangers) or maybe Club1872 would point this out and send it to all of our media haters with the comment that legal action will be considered if this continues. I believe DM has to take the lead as his company administered it so Rangers will stay silent with "nothing to do with us". Not holding my breath on DM tho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malvern 11,329 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Rangers won't reply, for all we know it is part of the 5 way deal to take all the shit being thrown at us without a word in clarification. As far as MIH goes they don't really givea crap as long as DM has his Steel business. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcb 649 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Won't mean anything to those cretins across the city. Uses some words too big for there knowledge. One reply saying "eye but thay cheeteed" and it starts again Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudrup1984 25,100 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Where's ma shovel! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom0411 1,226 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Re Mr English sounds like the usual mhedia keech it is always "sources" but they never name them which makes me wonder if there ever was any. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Nosed Babe 20,582 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 So it is now QCs 4 v Rangers Haters 0. I do love most of our Fine QCs! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.