SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, jackrfc95 said: Caixinha has shat out dropping him normally because he has too much clout in the dressing room so has given him a day off IMO. A certainty to start on Saturday. Don't know if I get this clout thing with him though I suspect it may be the case. When I played the captain was generally one of the best players and the one folk listened to. Someone that acted like a captain had to have the ability to go with it. A forward acting Billy big baws would have been shot down in seconds with a line about his goals record for the season if he was on a 2 goals at September weekend. I think Pedro has maybe created a rod for his own back by building up Miller's worth when his biggest weakness, ability, is the thing that matters most. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: Don't know if I get this clout thing with him though I suspect it may be the case. When I played the captain was generally one of the best players and the one folk listened to. Someone that acted like a captain had to have the ability to go with it. A forward acting Billy big baws would have been shot down in seconds with a line about his goals record for the season if he was on a 2 goals at September weekend. I think Pedro has maybe created a rod for his own back by building up Miller's worth when his biggest weakness, ability, is the thing that matters most. It's true that actually, and you brought someone to mind who was a captain, even when he wasn't playing, or even without trying to impose himself. He certainly was the best player as well. Edit: Those who say there is no such particular thing as a captain have 1, haven't played football; 2, if they have they haven't played with a good captain in their side. It's not just peculiar to football either, but possibly in all team sports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrfc95 4,255 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: Don't know if I get this clout thing with him though I suspect it may be the case. When I played the captain was generally one of the best players and the one folk listened to. Someone that acted like a captain had to have the ability to go with it. A forward acting Billy big baws would have been shot down in seconds with a line about his goals record for the season if he was on a 2 goals at September weekend. I think Pedro has maybe created a rod for his own back by building up Miller's worth when his biggest weakness, ability, is the thing that matters most. I think it may be the case that Miller can't accept he's no longer that guy in the dressing room after the arrivals of Alves, Dorrans and even Jack to a certain extent. Last season we were so poor and the squad was made up of players mostly from the English lower leagues that Miller probably was that person that the squad looked to given his experience and the fact he was scoring goals last year (semi regularly). The issue Pedro has now is some of that squad are still there from last year so still hold Miller in high regard. The other night he didn't look happy coming off and I can't for the life of me understand why, he was terrible yet again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, jackrfc95 said: I think it may be the case that Miller can't accept he's no longer that guy in the dressing room after the arrivals of Alves, Dorrans and even Jack to a certain extent. Last season we were so poor and the squad was made up of players mostly from the English lower leagues that Miller probably was that person that the squad looked to given his experience and the fact he was scoring goals last year (semi regularly). The issue Pedro has now is some of that squad are still there from last year so still hold Miller in high regard. The other night he didn't look happy coming off and I can't for the life of me understand why, he was terrible yet again. Yep, some good points there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF2 WINNIE 1,006 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 With Wallace being out I think Miller has to start on Saturday, kind of player we need on the park. Imagine if the only player to have played vs them for us before are Windass and Tav. Don't know what it's about really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, CF2 WINNIE said: With Wallace being out I think Miller has to start on Saturday, kind of player we need on the park. Imagine if the only player to have played vs them for us before are Windass and Tav. Don't know what it's about really. Wes has. Jack has faced them before in big games (not as big as this granted). Dorrans knows what this fixture is all about. I'd really rather Miller didn't play as his lack of effectiveness this season over rides his experience. That counts on Saturday too where we cant cope a man down even if he is experienced. He doesn't impart that experience enough on others (results and performances show that) so if its about him benefiting from his experience then it's not enough. I'd love us to smash Thistle tonight with great forward play and really give Pedro a decision to make re Miller on Saturday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelbourneBlue 198 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just checked the latest news (I'm Australia based - so get to things at different times) and nearly punched a hole in the ceiling when I saw KM is being "rested" for the League Cup game. Yeehaa!! I've said this in various threads before: Kenny needs to be out of our team, particularly as a starter. I watched him giving "directions" to Morelos in the Thistle game at the weekend straight after he'd turned the ball over with yet another trampoline touch. Morelos must think he's a plonker. I watched him get under the feet of both Dorrans and Jack several times, because he's bumbling about in the wrong part of the park. Dorrans and Jack must think he's a plonker. I do. Why does Pedro keep playing him?? I know he has scored a few crucial goals for us over the last couple of seasons - but he's very often the reason why they're crucial! As I've previously said - I respect KM's professionalism in keeping his ageing body in good shape. But he is no longer good enough to be starting for us, and I doubt whether he has much future as a substitute. And no, I've never been a great fan of his. And yes, if you play for them, I don't believe you're truly one of us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie0202 12,272 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 49 minutes ago, jackrfc95 said: The other night he didn't look happy coming off and I can't for the life of me understand why, he was terrible yet again. It could be that he's shaking head when he's coming off it's because he's pissed off at his own performance. Surely he knows he's not playing up to his standards of old. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbGER 24,518 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jamie0202 said: It could be that he's shaking head when he's coming off it's because he's pissed off at his own performance. Surely he knows he's not playing up to his standards of old. That doesn't fit with the narrative though. But it is exactly what i was thinking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackstar 7 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Don' t get his attitude about being subbed when he has not been playing well,can' t be good for harmony in the dressing room. It will be interesting to see how we play without him,if we play and win well Pedro has a decision to make,difficult because you always feel there is a goal in him,is it too big a risk leaving humour of Saturday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackstar 7 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Leave him out of Saturday. Oops Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, jackstar said: Don' t get his attitude about being subbed when he has not been playing well,can' t be good for harmony in the dressing room. It will be interesting to see how we play without him,if we play and win well Pedro has a decision to make,difficult because you always feel there is a goal in him,is it too big a risk leaving humour of Saturday. Is it a bigger risk including him or leaving him out though? Yes he can come up with the odd goal against them. But last season that was in amongst only 14 goals. Last season many felt he was one of our more effective players, player of the year. This season he has had only 2 goals, his form in general is deteriorating. Can we cope with him offering nothing but a potential to score? I think he'll play. I doubt he'll score. I reckon we'll see more of the same from him. If we get beat and the roof comes off with shouts for Pedro's head then I'll back those calls too as he'll not see the blindingly obvious in front of him.I do genuinely feel the Miller situation is a make or break one for him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: Is it a bigger risk including him or leaving him out though? Yes he can come up with the odd goal against them. But last season that was in amongst only 14 goals. Last season many felt he was one of our more effective players, player of the year. This season he has had only 2 goals, his form in general is deteriorating. Can we cope with him offering nothing but a potential to score? I think he'll play. I doubt he'll score. I reckon we'll see more of the same from him. If we get beat and the roof comes off with shouts for Pedro's head then I'll back those calls too as he'll not see the blindingly obvious in front of him.I do genuinely feel the Miller situation is a make or break one for him. You can still see the old Kenny, at times- for Morelos' goal against Ross County he drags their defence slightly more open, and helps Morelos have more space; no-one will argue that he can do those things in the box quite well, on occasions. However, it's worth repeating that there is more he is doing wrong, particularly outside the box, and especially when we are making a break forward, that has never been one of his greatest strengths anyway, but has become even worse. He isn't good enough anymore, and isn't even half the player he was in his prime. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said: You can still see the old Kenny, at times- for Morelos' goal against Ross County he drags their defence slightly more open, and helps Morelos have more space; no-one will argue that he can do those things in the box quite well, on occasions. However, it's worth repeating that there is more he is doing wrong, particularly outside the box, and especially when we are making a break forward, that has never been one of his greatest strengths anyway, but has become even worse. He isn't good enough anymore, and isn't even half the player he was in his prime. I think that's the point. He drags a defence slightly wider. He passed to someone whos touch created a goal. He took up good positions (that he missed from). It's all peripheral stuff or excuses. Our frontline should be about morelos. What can be done to support him. Pena playing off him. Maybe. Herrera occupying the centre halves. Maybe. Hardie offering pace alongside him. Could do. Miller getting in the way and generally just being there. Nope, not for me. If I could see the contribution, the assists, the good link up play but others rather than him were scoring fine. But it's not there. We might actually play him based on what he could do, because of what he's done, but in no way based on what he's been doing since the first game of pre season. And that's a huge bloody risk. Not for me.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, Sportingintegritymyarse said: I think that's the point. He drags a defence slightly wider. He passed to someone whos touch created a goal. He took up good positions (that he missed from). It's all peripheral stuff or excuses. Our frontline should be about morelos. What can be done to support him. Pena playing off him. Maybe. Herrera occupying the centre halves. Maybe. Miller getting in the way and generally just being there. Nope, not for me. If I could see the contribution, the assists, the good link up play but others rather than him were scoring fine. But it's not there. We might actually play him based on what he could do, because of what he's done, but in no way based on what he's been doing since the first game of pre season. And that's a huge bloody risk. Not for me.. Agreed, totally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrfc95 4,255 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Jamie0202 said: It could be that he's shaking head when he's coming off it's because he's pissed off at his own performance. Surely he knows he's not playing up to his standards of old. That did cross my mind to be fair, suppose no one will ever know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrfc95 4,255 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 For the record I'd still be starting him on Saturday, despite my comments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torontoblue76 120 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 On 9/18/2017 at 13:56, RFCRobertson said: What? Is he not injured? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 Guess Miller will be in in Saturday now for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEPPS BOY 73,890 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Difficult one for Saturday, tbh. He's the man for Old firm games but his form has been poor and he knows that. There's been no fall outs with Caixinha or anyone else, it's not about Dorrans Alves or anyone else. The off the field stuff he's got on isn't helping either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltire266 502 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Pretty sure Pedro has told him he wont be an automatic starter now that Herrera and Pena are up to match speed. He has probably said something and been given a day off to think about it. Gone in January for sure Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, saltire266 said: Pretty sure Pedro has told him he wont be an automatic starter now that Herrera and Pena are up to match speed. He has probably said something and been given a day off to think about it. Gone in January for sure Gone where? Who will buy him? He's under contract so where will he pick up the same money even if we look to release him? The only team he'd get a game for is Kilmarnock as they like our retirees, but they couldn't afford his petrol. He will be here til summer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltire266 502 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said: Gone where? Who will buy him? He's under contract so where will he pick up the same money even if we look to release him? The only team he'd get a game for is Kilmarnock as they like our retirees, but they couldn't afford his petrol. He will be here til summer. I think he will maybe take a coaching position somewhere or player/coach. He must know at his age he is never going to be first pick. Pena and Hererra will only get better with more game time. Miller wont! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfc_watp 1,503 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, STEPPS BOY said: Difficult one for Saturday, tbh. He's the man for Old firm games but his form has been poor and he knows that. There's been no fall outs with Caixinha or anyone else, it's not about Dorrans Alves or anyone else. The off the field stuff he's got on isn't helping either. What off the field stuff mate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715 Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 Just now, rfc_watp said: What off the field stuff mate? Pension planning. Big decisions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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