The Importance of Fixing "Institutional Failure" before New Manager appt.

[buster. 1,114]

Last week Alastair Johnston used the phrase "institutional failure" when looking back over a period of time that included the fall of Mark Warburton and the appointment of Pedro Caixinha.

I think the most important thing regarding the next managerial appointment is that they sort out and rectify whatever issues led to what AJ described as instituional failure. This next appointment shouldn't be rushed into and handled in a simplistic reactionary way that may come from a hunch by X or a friend of Y or simply the opposite of what didn't work before.

Instead of reactionary and at times divided management from the boardroom (moreso post April 2016), the board need to develop a clear medium to long term strategy and stick with it as they approach all the issues and very public fire-fighting that comes with the job.

They need to have the right people in at middle management and it was encouraging to see that the L5 and Traynor would seem to be getting diluted with the club looking for a 'Director of Corporate Communication and Marketing', they seem to recognise that L5 and Traynor aren't working.

Many have called for Stewart Robertson to be replaced and I have to agree. I think that on a number of the higher profile issues he is out of his depth and a new hardnosed and competent CEO, to help implement a fresh medium to long term strategy would be ideal. It might cost a little more but if you get the right man, it'll be money well spent.

Getting back to the managerial appointment.

Only when a fresh medium to long term plan is in place and includes the input from the DoF (if indeed a DoF is required within a new strategy), should we decide on the remit of the next manager......and only when we know that remit should we look to identifty candidates.

Going forward, we need to have everything moving in the same direction or we'll almost certainly keep tripping up.... and going forward we need to manage expectation in relation to finance, timescales and the competitive reality out there.

 

[buster. 1,114]

Have copied this into the Bears Den as I think it's probably more appropriate here (mods can delete the thread in mgmt sub-forum)

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[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,715]

Fully agree, well said.

[buster. 1,114]

edit. thanks mods !

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

People like Souness or Walter would be willing to take those kind of roles and they’d be perfect to keep our most important philosophies alive and ensure it’s transmitted top to bottom.

[buster. 1,114]

6 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

People like Souness or Walter would be willing to take those kind of roles and they’d be perfect to keep our most important philosophies alive and ensure it’s transmitted top to bottom.

I'm not sure what roles you speak of ???

IMO Souness and WS are hugely important figures in our history but that is where they are best suited today.

We have to try and move forwards and not always look back.

[Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312]

10 minutes ago, buster. said:

Have copied this into the Bears Den as I think it's probably more appropriate here (mods can delete the thread in mgmt sub-forum)

----------------------

 

Last week Alastair Johnston used the phrase "institutional failure" when looking back over a period of time that included the fall of Mark Warburton and the appointment of Pedro Caixinha.

I think the most important thing regarding the next managerial appointment is that they sort out and rectify whatever issues led to what AJ described as instituional failure. This next appointment shouldn't be rushed into and handled in a simplistic reactionary way that may come from a hunch by X or a friend of Y or simply the opposite of what didn't work before.

Instead of reactionary and at times divided management from the boardroom (moreso post April 2016), the board need to develop a clear medium to long term strategy and stick with it as they approach all the issues and very public fire-fighting that comes with the job.

They need to have the right people in at middle management and it was encouraging to see that the L5 and Traynor remit about to be diluted, with the club looking for a 'Director of Corporate Communication and Marketing', they seem to recognise that L5 and Traynor aren't working.

Many have called for Stewart Robertson to be replaced and I have to agree. I think that on a number of the higher profile issues he is out of his depth and a new hardnosed and competent CEO, to help implement a fresh medium to long term strategy would be ideal. It might cost a little more but if you get the right man, it'll be money well spent.

Getting back to the managerial appointment.

Only when a fresh medium to long term plan is in place and includes the input from the DoF (if indeed a DoF is required within a new strategy), should we decide on the remit of the next manager......and only when we know that remit should we look to identifty candidates.

Going forward, we need to have everything moving in the same direction or we'll almost certainly keep tripping up.... and going forward we need to manage expectation in relation to finance, timescales and the competitive reality out there.

Does sticking to the plan include the next managerial appointment? If it did then sticking with him will always be based on results but if it's all above him then yeah, some very good points ?

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

After 3 and a half years of failure. I would’ve thought the only solution was a change of board members for folk who actually know what the fuck they are doing. 

Does anyone actually know what the plan is??

Is this the same plan that they started 3 1/2 years ago or has that been ripped up and it’s start all over again??

And why is the Bovril still too HOT?? 

[buster. 1,114]

2 minutes ago, Deanzmeanzheinz said:

Does sticking to the plan include the next managerial appointment? If it did then sticking with him will always be based on results but if it's all above him then yeah, some very good points ?

A new or fresh strategy that the board as a whole agreed upon should be where the root of all ongoing decisions come from.

It wouldn't guarantee that we'd appoint the right guy but it would or at least should mean that it fits with how the club is moving forward and any subsequent changes shouldn't disturb the path we would be embarked upon.

[buster. 1,114]

2 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

After 3 and a half years of failure. I would’ve thought the only solution was a change of board members for folk who actually know what the fuck they are doing. 

Does anyone actually know what the plan is??

Is this the same plan that they started 3 1/2 years ago or has that been ripped up and it’s start all over again??

And why is the Bovril still too HOT?? 

I'd suggest we see how the next few weeks go and see what is presented at the forthcoming AGM.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

5 minutes ago, buster. said:

I'm not sure what roles you speak of ???

IMO Souness and WS are hugely important figures in our history but that is where they are best suited today.

We have to try and move forwards and not always look back.

Well they could either be installed in lower management supervisory roles or middle management caretaker role. It doesn’t actually matter. A role can be invented so long as someone like this is there to advise at all times and keep an eye on what’s happening.

I think it would be a justified role, having so many people in charge of our club with lack of footballing experience is dangerous.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, buster. said:

I'd suggest we see how the next few weeks go and see what is presented at the forthcoming AGM.

Heads have to roll at boardroom level it’s that simple, they have had their chance and failed miserably. 

As for Robertson he should never got the job in the first place and Traynor should never have been allowed within a mile of Ibrox, so on that we agree. 

[buster. 1,114]

Jack

Fair enough but I don't see what they'd offer in such positions.....although in time Walter Smith could perhaps take over from John Greig as an emblematic and historic figure that represents the club. 

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

10 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

After 3 and a half years of failure. I would’ve thought the only solution was a change of board members for folk who actually know what the fuck they are doing. 

Does anyone actually know what the plan is??

Is this the same plan that they started 3 1/2 years ago or has that been ripped up and it’s start all over again??

And why is the Bovril still too HOT?? 

Would you please stop asking for a fucking plan!

That would be a matter of transparency and direction and we don't want any of that shit here.

[AlCapone 7,678]

15 minutes ago, buster. said:

I'd suggest we see how the next few weeks go and see what is presented at the forthcoming AGM.

stop giving them more time

[Smile 26,600]

19 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

After 3 and a half years of failure. I would’ve thought the only solution was a change of board members for folk who actually know what the fuck they are doing. 

Does anyone actually know what the plan is??

Is this the same plan that they started 3 1/2 years ago or has that been ripped up and it’s start all over again??

And why is the Bovril still too HOT?? 

There's is no plan or structure under this board we will be watching the filth celebrate for years to come under these useless idiots.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

11 minutes ago, buster. said:

Jack

Fair enough but I don't see what they'd offer in such positions.....although in time Walter Smith could perhaps take over from John Greig as an emblematic and historic figure that represents the club. 

Offer their experience, guidance and advice. We cannot have Walter Smith the manager back, but who is to say he wouldn’t be interested or valuable in this kind of role?

Have you ever been in a new job with limited experience and lots of expectation with no support from colleagues at the same level or above your level? I have, and it’s a fight trying to get things right I can tell you.

I would have fared far better if I could have drawn on an engineers experience at work, instead I’ve had to re-invent the wheel and struggle for 2.5 years. Now, I can get advice from another sites engineer and I’ve found it to be invaluable and have seen I’ve made a few mistakes which didn’t need to be made in the first place.

If we have people like this to pass on our philosophy and methods it will be a link to success that cannot be broken. I see it as valuable, but just my opinion of course.

 

[Bobby Hume 13,022]

 

Until we get winners at all levels of the boardroom and coaching team ...... as football is a results driven "business" ..... we will continue to be rudderless and continue to just drift ..... the truth is we have to have a clean out from top to bottom and a winning mindset installed in all areas of our Club.

Easier said than done of course .... as financial investment and a proper scouting system to identify proper talent is so far lacking at the moment .... and in my opinion the main reason for our hot and cold performances over the last few seasons.

This lies at the doorstep of the current board .... their time has run out.

 

[buster. 1,114]

6 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

Offer their experience, guidance and advice. We cannot have Walter Smith the manager back, but who is to say he wouldn’t be interested or valuable in this kind of role?

Have you ever been in a new job with limited experience and lots of expectation with no support from colleagues at the same level or above your level? I have, and it’s a fight trying to get things right I can tell you.

I would have fared far better if I could have drawn on an engineers experience at work, instead I’ve had to re-invent the wheel and struggle for 2.5 years. Now, I can get advice from another sites engineer and I’ve found it to be invaluable and have seen I’ve made a few mistakes which didn’t need to be made in the first place.

If we have people like this to pass on our philosophy and methods it will be a link to success that cannot be broken. I see it as valuable, but just my opinion of course.

 

I don't think you need to give X, Y or Z a position at the club so as to be able to ask their advice and we shouldn't be employing someone as manager of the first team who constantly needed to seek advice.

 

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

21 minutes ago, buster. said:

I don't think you need to give X, Y or Z a position at the club so as to be able to ask their advice and we shouldn't be employing someone as manager of the first team who constantly needed to seek advice.

 

It’s not about the incoming manager not having ability.

We are a completely different animal when it comes to football management, our club is built on winning and playing a certain way. Managers whom have come in and wanted to change our philosophy quickly have been doomed to fail PLG, MW, PC.

I think it is stupid not to try and have an extra layer of control to prevent all of what has happened in our recent history happening again.

A lot of pain and money might have been saved if PLG, PC or MW we’re reeled in and told their drastic changes would not work if implemented straight away. Who knows, those managers might not have been given the chance if a Souness or Smith we’re there to guide the selection process.

Seems nuts to me to try and not make something that has been failing for years better.

[buster. 1,114]

1 hour ago, Jack The Flipper said:

It’s not about the incoming manager not having ability.

We are a completely different animal when it comes to football management, our club is built on winning and playing a certain way. Managers whom have come in and wanted to change our philosophy quickly have been doomed to fail PLG, MW, PC.

I think it is stupid not to try and have an extra layer of control to prevent all of what has happened in our recent history happening again.

A lot of pain and money might have been saved if PLG, PC or MW we’re reeled in and told their drastic changes would not work if implemented straight away. Who knows, those managers might not have been given the chance if a Souness or Smith we’re there to guide the selection process.

Seems nuts to me to try and not make something that has been failing for years better.

Our club may be built upon winning but it isn't built upon the 'Magic Circle', nor are Souness or Smith capable of getting or guiding us towards the same results with a completely different set of circumstances than they were previously accustomed to.

Nor will any self-respecting and appropriately experienced manager join on the condition that he has to take the advice of  X or Y. A process shouldn't select a manager who would need to consult with others on a regular basis because he doesn't know what is required or who to buy and pick. If he doesn't know then he shouldn't get picked, period.

The support, as well as a 'fresh' strategy need to get real wrt expectations related to finance and timescales. Until they do, we'll bounce around and never get to where we want to go, unless celtic implode.

 

 

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

Just now, buster. said:

Our club may be built upon winning but it isn't built upon the 'Magic Circle', nor are Souness or Smith capable of getting or guiding us towards the same results with a completely different set of circumstances that they were accustomed to.

Nor will any self-respecting and appropriately experienced manager join on the condition that he has to take the advice of  X or Y. A process shouldn't select a manager who would need to consult with others on a regular basis because he doesn't know what is required or who to buy and pick. If he doesn't know then he doesn't get picked, period.

The support as well as a 'fresh' strategy need to get real wrt expectations related to finance and timescales. Until they do, we'll bounce around and never get to where we want to go, unless celtic implode.

 

 

When did I say the new manager must take advice from someone like Souness or Walter? 

I think your being a bit silly and completely disagree with you, I don’t think we will agree so lets just leave it there.

[JCDBigBear 10,824]

The problem we have rests within the boardroom.  They took a chance on Warburton and after a false dawn in the first half of his first season it became apparent that he wasn't the answer.  He was given time to try to change but that failed.  The board then took a quite unbelievable gamble on a manager not only unknown to the support but barely heard of in any country.   That appointment gave us some disastrous results despite a significant transfer outlay.  Frankly, those responsible for his appointment should have resigned.  They appointed a manager whilst knowing they were looking for a Director of Football, which I found astonishing.    We have a board of directors of questionable worth both financially and of ability.  Stewart Robertson has been underwhelming as MD.  Dave King, John Bennett, Paul Murray, Douglas Park, Graeme Park, James Blair, Alastair Johnston, Andrew Dickson.  What positive influence do all these people bring to Rangers?    The only two I would keep would be Douglas Park and John Bennett.  The rest should be replaced.  We have an AGM due sometime soon although I wonder what the accounts will say whenever they get released.  At this AGM I doubt that any investor will hold the board to account.  The club PR is shocking.  

[OhW 4,669]

 

[With Heart and Hand 8,949]

isn't this kind of issue the exact reason we brought in a Director or Football?