Murty's league record is it good enough

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

1 hour ago, Ferris Bueller said:

Thought he only has a contract till the end of the season?

He’s getting the job, he is the cheap option. 

[SIRB_72 4,000]

47 minutes ago, BouncyBluenose87 said:

Based on these stats, even a blind man can see we need to either buy or promote some better quality defenders. We've conceded more goals than Hibs and nearly as many goals as Killie and the sheep ffs in the last 20 games! Nowhere near good enough defensively! If we can shore the defence up next season then we give ourselves a chance of winning something...

I totally agree with you! I'm one of these guys that believes defence wins championships and whether it is Murty in charge or someone else that backline needs some heavy investment. For me 2 centre halfs and a more defensive left back.

I also think our defence under Murty has suffered in 2018 due to the injury of Ross McCrorie who protects that defense brilliantly at times.

Usually stats don't show the true story but in the case of our defence they do. In Murty's 20 league games this season we have conceded 2 or more goals 8 times (twice vs hamilton) and had 7 clean sheets in that time (twice v aberdeen and partick). Our defence can be very volatile going by those stats.

I think any Rangers fan just now would never feel safe being a 1-0 up, we always need two goals to win matches. I think that's what Murty and Allen attempted during january by signing Murphy, Goss and Docherty and creating a system that has got Windass scoring and I think he deserves credit for that but against the better teams in the league we obviously need to be better defensively.

[Colin Traive 22,747]

1 hour ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Ive not given up on him yet.

The league was never realistically in reach, but yesterday was a let down. If things had just went a little differently, and Edward had sky'd his shot and Morelos had not missed his sitter, then its a different outcome. Wasnt an awful lot in the game even before the sending off.

He has till the end of the season, and should be judged when it is over.

Realistically, we were playing a team who have a wage bill 3x ours, with a manager on several times as much as ours.

We are in danger of getting into a self destructive circle where we sack a manager every 6 months because he has failed by not instantly toppling a team who have a wage bill magnitudes higher than ours. We need to give the manager time to develop our team.

I have some sympathy with your view (Morelos sticks away the tap in and I truly believe we’d have found a winner) but Murty had a puzzle to solve yesterday and he was found wanting. They were down to ten men, no right backs in their squad, Boyata trying to be the new Ambrose and we had more than matched them to that point. Murty should never have lost from that position. Managers like Clarke, Lennon and Wright would not have lost in my opinion.

What was needed was removing Alves or Cardoso plus Goss and bringing on Holt and Cummings. Tell Candieas and Murphy to hug the touch line and stretch the game to maximise the extra man. Instead we panicked, lost our composure and stopped doing the things we did well at the start. For all the disparity of resources, that game was there for us yesterday although I’m not convinced we’d have gone on to win the league anyway.

The cup tie is his final audition. Nothing less than a win is acceptable. Otherwise it’s phone calls to Killie or St Mirren to seek permission to speak to their manager.

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

I have some sympathy with your view (Morelos sticks away the tap in and I truly believe we’d have found a winner) but Murty had a puzzle to solve yesterday and he was found wanting. They were down to ten men, no right backs in their squad, Boyata trying to be the new Ambrose and we had more than matched them to that point. Murty should never have lost from that position. Managers like Clarke, Lennon and Wright would not have lost in my opinion.

What was needed was removing Alves or Cardoso plus Goss and bringing on Holt and Cummings. Tell Candieas and Murphy to hug the touch line and stretch the game to maximise the extra man. Instead we panicked, lost our composure and stopped doing the things we did well at the start. For all the disparity of resources, that game was there for us yesterday although I’m not convinced we’d have gone on to win the league anyway.

The cup tie is his final audition. Nothing less than a win is acceptable. Otherwise it’s phone calls to Killie or St Mirren to seek permission to speak to their manager.

Spot-on and a good post.

It was the same sort of game as the 2-1 defeat at Ibrox start of last season where Brown got an early booking and McKay was ripping their full-backs new ones too .. Warburton was so blind on the touchline and didn't account for this by getting in their faces and getting the ball out to McKay wherever possible - there were echo's of that yesterday with them down to 10, a rocky defence and Cummings on the bench needing brought on to get in about them and finish any chances that come our way.

I know generally most managers know more about football than any of us on here but I sometimes wonder if they can actually see the obvious things that the fans can see and are too busy looking too deep into other things/battles going on all over the pitch. 

[BridgeIsBlue 66,606]

5 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

I have some sympathy with your view (Morelos sticks away the tap in and I truly believe we’d have found a winner) but Murty had a puzzle to solve yesterday and he was found wanting. They were down to ten men, no right backs in their squad, Boyata trying to be the new Ambrose and we had more than matched them to that point. Murty should never have lost from that position. Managers like Clarke, Lennon and Wright would not have lost in my opinion.

What was needed was removing Alves or Cardoso plus Goss and bringing on Holt and Cummings. Tell Candieas and Murphy to hug the touch line and stretch the game to maximise the extra man. Instead we panicked, lost our composure and stopped doing the things we did well at the start. For all the disparity of resources, that game was there for us yesterday although I’m not convinced we’d have gone on to win the league anyway.

The cup tie is his final audition. Nothing less than a win is acceptable. Otherwise it’s phone calls to Killie or St Mirren to seek permission to speak to their manager.

Agree with all of this up until the last sentence. 

[The Dude 20,026]

24 minutes ago, KingKirk said:

Course that record is enough atm put this squad has been together just over 12 weeks its his team now and we have progressed under him.

He should be given the job now on a year by year basis 

I think we are 3/4 players away and I expect Murty to deliver 55 next season 

I wrote in June that I 'expected' us to win the title - acknowledging we'd need a big bit of luck and for them to fall away from last season and put in something more resembling 'normal' form for one of the OF.

I took absolute pelters for that from both sides but given everything that's gone on this season; from sacking Pedro and being fourth before Halloween to losing against some of the shite we have then had we not been a shit-show we'd have been in with a good shout. I mean ffs, we could've ended yesterday just 3 points behind them.

Most folk in June said they'd have been happy with doing well in the cup and being within single figures of them at the end of the season.

If we can perform next season like we have since Murty took over, we'll be closer again and with the right additions we should be there or thereabouts to properly challenge them.

[K.A.I 36,183]

In fairness too I also remember an Old Firm game when we had Smith in charge (3-2 defeat at Parkhead the UEFA Cup Final season) we went 2-1 up and celtic were there for the taking as we had them on the ropes and I watched him come out from the dug-out getting the players to calm things down and stay in position, keep it tight etc - I couldn't believe my eyes - I knew his thinking behind it but it was about half an hour into the game and we had them on the ropes and had effectively chucked it .. infuriating but that's managers for you in big, emotive games. 

[Smile 26,600]

wheres the improvement. Remembering also that the scum has got worse this season and dropped more points.

Warburton - 43 points from 72 possible (24 games)
Pedro - 38 points from 60 possible (20 games)
Murty - 44 points from 72 possible (24 games)

[The Dude 20,026]

7 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Spot-on and a good post.

It was the same sort of game as the 2-1 defeat at Ibrox start of last season where Brown got an early booking and McKay was ripping their full-backs new ones too .. Warburton was so blind on the touchline and didn't account for this by getting in their faces and getting the ball out to McKay wherever possible - there were echo's of that yesterday with them down to 10, a rocky defence and Cummings on the bench needing brought on to get in about them and finish any chances that come our way.

I know generally most managers know more about football than any of us on here but I sometimes wonder if they can actually see the obvious things that the fans can see and are too busy looking too deep into other things/battles going on all over the pitch. 

2

I've asked people about (basically "see the stuff that's always brought up as being fans see it, why can't you?") and the basic jist I got was that there's always other stuff to take into account like if you take a CB off for a CF to go for it, who takes the CB's duties defensively and at set pieces if it means moving to a shape you don't regularly use/haven't got the personnel for. How do you deal with certain threats they have elsewhere on the pitch.

With the Cummings one I can see much more of  a case of going with him on for Windass than some of the suggestions we should've just pulled a CB and gone at them.

[ronniemca 479]

14 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

I have some sympathy with your view (Morelos sticks away the tap in and I truly believe we’d have found a winner) but Murty had a puzzle to solve yesterday and he was found wanting. They were down to ten men, no right backs in their squad, Boyata trying to be the new Ambrose and we had more than matched them to that point. Murty should never have lost from that position. Managers like Clarke, Lennon and Wright would not have lost in my opinion.

What was needed was removing Alves or Cardoso plus Goss and bringing on Holt and Cummings. Tell Candieas and Murphy to hug the touch line and stretch the game to maximise the extra man. Instead we panicked, lost our composure and stopped doing the things we did well at the start. For all the disparity of resources, that game was there for us yesterday although I’m not convinced we’d have gone on to win the league anyway.

The cup tie is his final audition. Nothing less than a win is acceptable. Otherwise it’s phone calls to Killie or St Mirren to seek permission to speak to their manager.

If the cup tie is his final chance then his goose is cooked ,there is not a chance in hell we are winning that one,maybe hold on to second but that's in doubt as the tims will throw points once the title is clinched 

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

I've asked people about (basically "see the stuff that's always brought up as being fans see it, why can't you?") and the basic jist I got was that there's always other stuff to take into account like if you take a CB off for a CF to go for it, who takes the CB's duties defensively and at set pieces if it means moving to a shape you don't regularly use/haven't got the personnel for. How do you deal with certain threats they have elsewhere on the pitch.

With the Cummings one I can see much more of  a case of going with him on for Windass than some of the suggestions we should've just pulled a CB and gone at them.

Straight up Cummings for Morelos would have been my choice as we retain our shape when it comes to the forward line. Holt for Goss should have been done the minute they went down to 10 too.

Murty did make mistakes yesterday if we are being honest tho.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

Straight up Cummings for Morelos would have been my choice as we retain our shape when it comes to the forward line. Holt for Goss should have been done the minute they went down to 10 too.

Murty did make mistakes yesterday if we are being honest tho.

Oh absolutely. I'm not going to pretend he got everything spot on yesterday. I'd have hooked Windass and Goss at the red for Cummings/Holt. By sticking with 3 CBs they managed to stifle us and then brought on Edouard as an outball to fire long balls at and hold the ball up. We should've reacted to that and pressed them much more and kept a high line but didnt

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

29 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

I have some sympathy with your view (Morelos sticks away the tap in and I truly believe we’d have found a winner) but Murty had a puzzle to solve yesterday and he was found wanting. They were down to ten men, no right backs in their squad, Boyata trying to be the new Ambrose and we had more than matched them to that point. Murty should never have lost from that position. Managers like Clarke, Lennon and Wright would not have lost in my opinion.

What was needed was removing Alves or Cardoso plus Goss and bringing on Holt and Cummings. Tell Candieas and Murphy to hug the touch line and stretch the game to maximise the extra man. Instead we panicked, lost our composure and stopped doing the things we did well at the start. For all the disparity of resources, that game was there for us yesterday although I’m not convinced we’d have gone on to win the league anyway.

The cup tie is his final audition. Nothing less than a win is acceptable. Otherwise it’s phone calls to Killie or St Mirren to seek permission to speak to their manager.

What about a call to the spoon burners? Their league position from coming up from the championship shows the lemmon is the best of them. Hope you're not discriminating because he is an ugly bastard and ginger?!

 

[ForeverAndEver 71,473]

1 hour ago, gogzy said:

pish.  Aberdeen were bigger than Hibs.

Na, canny agree mate. Hibs games mean more to me now, Aberdeen are bigger bottlers than us, was obvious we would win, Hibs we had a chance to put pressure on the Tarriers and we're pish again.

[BridgeIsBlue 66,606]

1 minute ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Na, canny agree mate. Hibs games mean more to me now, Aberdeen are bigger bottlers than us, was obvious we would win, Hibs we had a chance to put pressure on the Tarriers and we're pish again.

Tarriers>Hibs>Dundee Hibs>Aberdeen/Hertz

That's my order

[BouncyBluenose87 1,559]

1 hour ago, SIRB_72 said:

I totally agree with you! I'm one of these guys that believes defence wins championships and whether it is Murty in charge or someone else that backline needs some heavy investment. For me 2 centre halfs and a more defensive left back.

I also think our defence under Murty has suffered in 2018 due to the injury of Ross McCrorie who protects that defense brilliantly at times.

Usually stats don't show the true story but in the case of our defence they do. In Murty's 20 league games this season we have conceded 2 or more goals 8 times (twice vs hamilton) and had 7 clean sheets in that time (twice v aberdeen and partick). Our defence can be very volatile going by those stats.

I think any Rangers fan just now would never feel safe being a 1-0 up, we always need two goals to win matches. I think that's what Murty and Allen attempted during january by signing Murphy, Goss and Docherty and creating a system that has got Windass scoring and I think he deserves credit for that but against the better teams in the league we obviously need to be better defensively.

Spot on with your "defence is volatile" comment sir! We've been in a position for the whole of this season where nobody has a clue what defence will turn up on the day. Our defence is way too unpredictable.

We've struggled to keep clean sheets regularly (especially at home) which has set us back big time in pushing for the title.

Our home form this season definitely needs to be addressed. Way too many dropped points which I believe has been through a mix of poor defending and not taking clear cut chances. Teams with home form like ours don't win Championships...simple as that!

Still got to keep fighting in the league though and hope other teams do us a favour against the Mhanks. Also Scottish Cup still to play for. I can only hope that the feelings and emotions after the final whistle yesterday have galvanised the squad and made them more determined to put things right in the semi because if you ask me, they owe it to Murty and the fans!

[TMB 14,167]

The results are just as bad as they were under Warburton or Pedro.  20 points dropped since October, can't win more than 4 league games in a row, conceded about 22 goals, can't beat celtic, haven't won anything, etc.

Look at the league table from last season and compare it to this season.  Aberdeen and celtic are doing a lot worse than last year in terms of points and goal difference and that's why we've gotten closer to them.  Our performance is very similar indeed in terms of points earned so I don't think much progress has been made, if any.

There's got to a better candidate out there and we need to find him. Murty isn't the best man for the job he has no managerial experience.  He's seen celtic's 4-2-3-1 formation and attempted to mirror it.  He has absolutely no idea what to do if the formation isn't working and can't change a game to swing results in our favour.  He's out of his depth and looks like a rabbit in the headlights.  

[K.A.I 36,183]

43 minutes ago, BridgeIsBlue said:

Tarriers>Hibs>Dundee Hibs>Aberdeen/Hertz

That's my order

celtic>Hibs>Aberdeen>Dundee United>Falkirk/Raith Rovers>Motherwell is mine. Hearts aint top 10.

[gogzy 31,195]

Are you guys putting hibs above aberdeen purely based on the ginger prick being manager?

 

aberdeen are the bigger challenge IMO.

The league will finish them, us then the sheep.

[ForeverAndEver 71,473]

23 minutes ago, gogzy said:

Are you guys putting hibs above aberdeen purely based on the ginger prick being manager?

 

aberdeen are the bigger challenge IMO.

The league will finish them, us then the sheep.

Na, was meaning I count Hibs as a bigger rivalry and have more hatred for them.

[gogzy 31,195]

1 minute ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Na, was meaning I count Hibs as a bigger rivalry and have more hatred for them.

Fair enough. Always hated the sheep more.

Each to their own mate :)

[TMB 14,167]

2 hours ago, Smile said:

wheres the improvement. Remembering also that the scum has got worse this season and dropped more points.

Warburton - 43 points from 72 possible (24 games)
Pedro - 38 points from 60 possible (20 games)
Murty - 44 points from 72 possible (24 games)

So Murty has given us 1 more point than Warburton after the same number of league games?  There hasn't been any progress then.  One could also argue that Murty has had the benefit of a better squad.  

[.Williamson. 82,179]

4 hours ago, plumbGER said:

I don’t understand the issue there mate

[Supersonic 4,654]

Depends on how he does the rest of the season. There's still a lot he could show between now and the end. 

[Smile 26,600]

15 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

So Murty has given us 1 more point than Warburton after the same number of league games?  There hasn't been any progress then.  One could also argue that Murty has had the benefit of a better squad.  

We are getting closer to them because they are poorer we have better players now I would say but an inexperienced Manager who only plays one way.