mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Everyone had their hopes up yesterday because we were in good form and a win would have given us a proper title race. We lost a game to a team who have 3 times our wage bill, to a manager who took them to a treble last year and went a season unbeaten domestically. Even up until the sending off, it was a pretty even game. After the sending off, we should have won, but didnt. The team and Murty need to shoulder the blame for that. I cant help but feel that people calling for Murty's head are being premature though. We are in danger of changing and swapping managers every 6 months and hoping for a miracle rather than giving someone the time required to actually build something. Yes, Murty made mistakes, but he is a young manager and is still learning. Even though he is a young manager, he is IMO miles better than anyone we have had since Walter. The improvement in form under him raised expectations and gave some false hope. He needs time to continue to improve the squad. He has to the end of the season to be judged. I think it is stupid to say that unless he wins the semi final, then he has to go. How can it be 'expected' that he go out and beat a team who have 3x the financial backing? They are the favourites. A win against them would be amazing, but it would be unexpected and him over achieving. If he consolidates 2nd place and gets us competing well against them, then I will be happy to give him more time. If we drop many more points to other teams, or get thrashed in the semi final, then it may be a sign that the progress he is making is stalling and should consider our options. What I dont want to see is our fans demanding that we bring in a manager to win the league instantly, and then start calling for his head if he does not look on course to do so after 6 months. It is just a perpetual cycle of failure where the gap just increases rather than closes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Deacon 55,131 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Tbf though Murty did get it wrong yesterday. Either that or the players didn't play how he asked them too and its their fault. We could have dominated them yesterday. We didn't. The gulf isn't big between us and them regardless of the wage bill or budget. We could and should have won yesterday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbGER 24,518 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 My patience has just about ran out. That game was there to be won but he waited too long to change it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,366 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Kilmarnock will have an even bigger gap in wages, have us or celtic beat them since Clarke took over? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibroxholm 2,274 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I generally agree with your post. Many on here are saying that we got too carried away in lead up to yesterday’s game and it was a false dawn built on the back of a few wins. They are probably correct. However, it would be equally wrong to take yesterday’s match on its own, ignore any progress made over last few months, and tear things apart again by hoping for a saviour manager from somewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hilts 12,819 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 It can't be denied that Murty has done some good stuff since January. But I can't help feeling that we need a proper manager next season, and not a guy who's learning his trade, if we want to challenge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said: Kilmarnock will have an even bigger gap in wages, have us or celtic beat them since Clarke took over? No we have not, but I doubt that appointing Clarke would lead to us winning the league next year either. If he was not in touching distance within 2 months, he would be getting called a fenian and people would be demanding he was replaced. IMO, our best chance is to solidify our squad, get some stability hoe for a mistake by them to allow us to capitalise. That is our best chance. We had hope yesterday for a reason. Murty had turned things around and had us playing well. They had also had a rough patch. I honestly didnt see a huge gulf on the field yesterday. It was a 50/50 game with superior finishing causing the result. Dembele is a good player, regardless of how much people wish to deny it. His first goal was a cracker and his pass for the second was quality as well. He will be away in the summer, so hopefully they replace him poorly. Murty has lost 1 game out of 3 against them. The loss was by a single goal, in a game we should have won. Yes he made mistakes IMO, but it was not all down to him. There was luck and quality involved as well. Im holding fire till the end of the season to make up my mind, but he deserves more time IMO, not already deciding his fate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sket 13,610 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 More excuses for failure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Captain Hilts said: It can't be denied that Murty has done some good stuff since January. But I can't help feeling that we need a proper manager next season, and not a guy who's learning his trade, if we want to challenge. I just dont think we can afford the kind of manager people would be expecting. The horrendous thing is that the idea of someone like Moyes would disgust us, yet he is so far out of our reach is is not even funny. We are either looking to replace Murty with a manager who is 'learning their trade' or one who is out of form or from an obscure league. Neither option fills me the confidence that they will be given the time needed to get things right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,366 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said: No we have not, but I doubt that appointing Clarke would lead to us winning the league next year either. If he was not in touching distance within 2 months, he would be getting called a fenian and people would be demanding he was replaced. IMO, our best chance is to solidify our squad, get some stability hoe for a mistake by them to allow us to capitalise. That is our best chance. We had hope yesterday for a reason. Murty had turned things around and had us playing well. They had also had a rough patch. I honestly didnt see a huge gulf on the field yesterday. It was a 50/50 game with superior finishing causing the result. Dembele is a good player, regardless of how much people wish to deny it. His first goal was a cracker and his pass for the second was quality as well. He will be away in the summer, so hopefully they replace him poorly. Murty has lost 1 game out of 3 against them. The loss was by a single goal, in a game we should have won. Yes he made mistakes IMO, but it was not all down to him. There was luck and quality involved as well. Im holding fire till the end of the season to make up my mind, but he deserves more time IMO, not already deciding his fate. I agree, I don't want him, but he can beat them with a bigger gap, we struggle to get close. His goal only happened because we are spastics and didn't think it would be good to replace Alves or Cardoso and buy a decent centre back. All three goals are stopped by half decent players, but we let them do whatever they wanted to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sket said: More excuses for failure. Yes they are. Well done for spotting the obvious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, ForeverAndEver said: I agree, I don't want him, but he can beat them with a bigger gap, we struggle to get close. His goal only happened because we are spastics and didn't think it would be good to replace Alves or Cardoso and buy a decent centre back. All three goals are stopped by half decent players, but we let them do whatever they wanted to. Im fairly certain if we could have offloaded Cardoso and replaced him, we would have done it. The centre half we did bring in was injured for the game, and our first choice was stretchered off injured. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 71,366 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said: Im fairly certain if we could have offloaded Cardoso and replaced him, we would have done it. The centre half we did bring in was injured for the game, and our first choice was stretchered off injured. Aye, we replaced Wilson, fair enough, but we should have bought another one Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1872 20,650 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Thing is he’s making mistakes and he’s not fucking learning from them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Avenger 22,567 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 If it was only about Murty. It's much bigger than him. This is six years in the making. How much longer do we put up with being also rans? Another six years? Appears we are getting used to playing second fiddle. Start with the board. King, our messiah. 3 years now. I'm still awaiting the miracle. Oh wait a minute, it was only broken promises. That's ok then. The miracle is that we accept it! We're too dignified for a West Ham moment of course. Well that is unless it's getting King into power! We have improved on the park, but off it, we reman a shambles and that will ultimately affect what's on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, B1872 said: Thing is he’s making mistakes and he’s not fucking learning from them. I dont know if I agree with that though. Most of his fuck ups came in the games against the supposed cannon fodder, he has sorted this out for the most part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo7 10,442 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Is this the same patience that Murty showed in waiting to make a change following the red card or following Goss’ poor performance or Windass’ disappearance from the game following his goal? I said it with Warburton that his downfall was the whole Plan B is to do Plan A better. Murty could well be repeating Warburton’s mistakes. If Murty wants to be permanent manager then he has to start showing some guile. I hope it’s there and I hope he’s not just another one trick pony who plays one formation and tries to fit players in the formation (he spoke about Cummings wide left if Murphy didn’t make it and Cummings is not a left winger). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniemca 479 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Excuses excuses excuses .if this if that.we were beaten by a weakened team that hasn't been playing well with a third choice goalie who hasn't played for months and down to ten men at home whilst taking the lead twice and that's us fuckin progressing.aye right roll on the semi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeIsBlue 66,598 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 If the right man becomes available in the summer it's a no brainer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gj923 1,457 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, Blue Avenger said: If it was only about Murty. It's much bigger than him. This is six years in the making. How much longer do we put up with being also rans? Another six years? Appears we are getting used to playing second fiddle. Start with the board. King, our messiah. 3 years now. I'm still awaiting the miracle. Oh wait a minute, it was only broken promises. That's ok then. The miracle is that we accept it! We're too dignified for a West Ham moment of course. Well that is unless it's getting King into power! We have improved on the park, but off it, we reman a shambles and that will ultimately affect what's on it. This.......people rightly say we took them close and 9 points of a difference is much better than 30 plus last year but it is also a mixture of us being much better in the last 3 months or so and them being poor. Murty will still be here next season as we have a board who have in the course of 3 years ran up somewhere in the region of 20 million of debt the last few via a lender of last resort. Dress it up as quasi equity or whatever you want but our esteemed chairman will shortly be in control of more of the club which he clearly does'nt want to.....what he does want I have no idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsa 3,906 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Murty is a weak little gimp, as somebody pointed out, would Rodgers swaggered out of the tunnel last and into Rangers technical area, to surprise Walter Smith with a hug from behind? I doubt it. Pathetic little man. Too scared to do anything decisive. Never a Rangers manager. The lack of balls on the pitch reflects the lack of balls in the dug out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said: If it was only about Murty. It's much bigger than him. This is six years in the making. How much longer do we put up with being also rans? Another six years? Appears we are getting used to playing second fiddle. Start with the board. King, our messiah. 3 years now. I'm still awaiting the miracle. Oh wait a minute, it was only broken promises. That's ok then. The miracle is that we accept it! We're too dignified for a West Ham moment of course. Well that is unless it's getting King into power! We have improved on the park, but off it, we reman a shambles and that will ultimately affect what's on it. Last year we finished 39 points behind celtic and 9 behind aberdeen. We have closed the gap considerably, and even more importantly, they are getting worse. It is not an easy thing to bridge that financial gap they have due to the free run they have had at the CL for 6 years. It cant be done overnight. I am still seeing improvements, and whilst we are improving, I think it would be foolish to cast away this in the hope for a miracle which has a bigger chance of setting us back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gers31 246 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Hmm that's the bread man and Pedro and now Murty how much time do we give him he has till end of season we will finish second but if we dont beat them fuckers in the cup I think his time is up we can't keep coming second best Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithgersbear 3,225 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Should have been on the front foot right after the sending off. Send on the cavalry so to speak, push them further back and get the goal and win the game. Murty completely fucked it up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, gers31 said: Hmm that's the bread man and Pedro and now Murty how much time do we give him he has till end of season we will finish second but if we dont beat them fuckers in the cup I think his time is up we can't keep coming second best Last year we were 3rd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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