2m a year & an under 20s novice - the difference

[Hadron Collider 30,786]

11 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

I think on the whole Murty is decent with his tactics at setting teams up (Hivs aside).

His ability to adapt or tweak tactics, or see an opportunity and do what's needed to capitalise etc, that's where I reckon he was weak yesterday as he has been before.

Yes agreed.  Should he get the job for next year I would assume he will know the script. He’s only had a few months. Teething time. The team is what it is right now and he can’t change that. 

[Lloyd 10,756]

8 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

This 

i hope to fuck he knows this too and does something about it. Although there’s been no evidence so far. Could be his undoing if he doesn’t take advice. 

Can someone take advice on how not to be a shitebag tho?

[Skyson1872 2,923]

10 minutes ago, Hadron Collider said:

Pretty well thrown in at the deep end. Hasn’t done badly imo. Can you imagine if Pedro the burro was still there?  Just a thought. 

No saying it’s his fault, aye he’s better than Pedro but fuck sake 99% of cunts on here wid be

[KeyserSoze 14,521]

1 minute ago, Siwel said:

Can someone take advice on how not to be a shitebag tho?

Murty is a shitebag?  

[Hadron Collider 30,786]

1 minute ago, Skyson1872 said:

No saying it’s his fault, aye he’s better than Pedro but fuck sake 99% of cunts on here wid be

If he’s better than Pedro, then guess what, we have more points and we would be closer to the Dims. Not saying we would win the league but a lot closer just to give them the shivers. Bring on the semi final. Let’s see how his tactics work there!  

[loyalfollower 1,543]

Using the 10 men argument is not really valid.  How many games do you see where the 10 men actually play like winners?  We won a final with 9 men for crying out loud. We also absolutely hammered Dundee Utd 7-1 with 10 men and I think atleast 4 goalscame after Miller was sent off.

sometimes if you prepare for the scenario as celtic clearly did then it can still work

[OnwardsandUpwards 834]

2 hours ago, Ibroxholm said:

Don’t agree.  Murty picked his team and decided to have faith in them to do the job.  We were well on top throughout the period they had ten men, we had plenty of possession we just didn’t have the nouse to break them down.  Holt wouldn’t have provided that, nor did Cummings.  We had an excellent chance to score just before they broke away for their third, if Morelos had converted it things would likely have worked out different.  

 

 

In the course of the game there are lots of little things that may have gone differently to change that result.Over the course of many games Murty has been shown incapable of changing things when they are obviously not working.He has allowed our midfield to be over run again and managed to oversee a defeat delivered from the jaws of what should have been a victory.He may have steadied the ship but is nowhere near the calibre neede to steer us where we want to be.

[Lloyd 10,756]

15 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

Murty is a shitebag?  

Aye, he’s scared to make changes during games and ends up leaving it too late. In my opinion of course yours probably differs 

[cushynumber 25,178]

I saw that on twitter and thought it was very simplistic.

[KingKirk 25,607]

 Murty should've had a win yesterday. Morelos cost him another point (at least). To scientifically dissect every aspect is looking into it way to much

[Tom0411 1,226]

Fek sakes Brenda was quoted as saying they practice playing if they go down to ten men. Do we even think about that but the major problem yesterday was Cummings should have been on straight after red card. Playing 2 upfront against a keech defence & 10 men  and we would have won it.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

We brought in a lot of players in January and 5 weeks down the line when the Scottish Cup comes around they will be more used to playing together but obviously Murty is still learning on the job and so will always be liable to make mistakes 

[cushynumber 25,178]

2 minutes ago, Thermopylae said:

We brought in a lot of players in January and 5 weeks down the line when the Scottish Cup comes around they will be more used to playing together but obviously Murty is learning on the job and we always be liable to make mistakes 

the problem wasn't so much the guys we brought in in January, as the fact we had to resort to Cardoso and Alves who have barely kicked a ball in anger. None of them were Murtys signings, its worth pointing out.

[Ibroxholm 2,276]

10 minutes ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

In the course of the game there are lots of little things that may have gone differently to change that result.Over the course of many games Murty has been shown incapable of changing things when they are obviously not working.He has allowed our midfield to be over run again and managed to oversee a defeat delivered from the jaws of what should have been a victory.He may have steadied the ship but is nowhere near the calibre neede to steer us where we want to be.

The team has generally played pretty well since the New Year break and I don’t think there is a lot he can be criticised for.  On the substitutions, I don’t see the point in a manager making substitutions for substitutions sake (like Warburton did) unless the game is going against you.  I think Murty could be criticised for the Hibs game and not changing things in the first half. Yesterday, I think the only slight criticism I had was playing the two young players in midfield together, you could see from the Falkirk game they didn’t have enough dig, never mind experience, to be confident of them winning the midfield battle against celtic. I would have been tempted to start Holt instead of Windass to shore up the midfield a bit. May even have considered doing the same at half time but once they were down to ten men don’t see the point as we were dominating possession at that point.

All in hindsight of course which makes things a damn sight easier.

[cd true bluenose 86]

8 minutes ago, Thermopylae said:

We brought in a lot of players in January and 5 weeks down the line when the Scottish Cup comes around they will be more used to playing together but obviously Murty is still learning on the job and so will always be liable to make mistakes 

tha'ts why he has jimmy Nichol there to help him 

[evenstevens 890]

7 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

The team has generally played pretty well since the New Year break and I don’t think there is a lot he can be criticised for.  On the substitutions, I don’t see the point in a manager making substitutions for substitutions sake (like Warburton did) unless the game is going against you.  I think Murty could be criticised for the Hibs game and not changing things in the first half. Yesterday, I think the only slight criticism I had was playing the two young players in midfield together, you could see from the Falkirk game they didn’t have enough dig, never mind experience, to be confident of them winning the midfield battle against celtic. I would have been tempted to start Holt instead of Windass to shore up the midfield a bit. May even have considered doing the same at half time but once they were down to ten men don’t see the point as we were dominating possession at that point.

All in hindsight of course which makes things a damn sight easier.

We start Holt we don't go 1 up. All ifs and buts. 

celtic don't have a howler we don't go 1 up. A worldy was the equaliser. A long punt and 2 defenders on heels gifted 2nd equaliser. Crap defending gives away third. Morelos misses a sitter and fails to score when clean thru. 

The fine margin moments, as above, fell against us. 

But they also detract from the general pattern of the game, which saw them dictate general play and us threaten them on the break. 

The sending off wasn't critical to the outcome of the game if Morelos takes either chance and we don't defend like an under 10s for their goal. 

[Ibroxholm 2,276]

20 minutes ago, evenstevens said:

We start Holt we don't go 1 up. All ifs and buts. 

celtic don't have a howler we don't go 1 up. A worldy was the equaliser. A long punt and 2 defenders on heels gifted 2nd equaliser. Crap defending gives away third. Morelos misses a sitter and fails to score when clean thru. 

The fine margin moments, as above, fell against us. 

But they also detract from the general pattern of the game, which saw them dictate general play and us threaten them on the break. 

The sending off wasn't critical to the outcome of the game if Morelos takes either chance and we don't defend like an under 10s for their goal. 

Agree with you about the fine margins.  I thought Morelos had a really good game.  If he had knocked in that chance at the end, he would have been up there for man of the match.  By missing the chance, he is villain of the piece.

 

[OnwardsandUpwards 834]

23 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

The team has generally played pretty well since the New Year break and I don’t think there is a lot he can be criticised for.  On the substitutions, I don’t see the point in a manager making substitutions for substitutions sake (like Warburton did) unless the game is going against you.  I think Murty could be criticised for the Hibs game and not changing things in the first half. Yesterday, I think the only slight criticism I had was playing the two young players in midfield together, you could see from the Falkirk game they didn’t have enough dig, never mind experience, to be confident of them winning the midfield battle against celtic. I would have been tempted to start Holt instead of Windass to shore up the midfield a bit. May even have considered doing the same at half time but once they were down to ten men don’t see the point as we were dominating possession at that point.

All in hindsight of course which makes things a damn sight easier.

All fair points mate.Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we are all experts after the event.Whilst results have been much better since the break some have been against the likes of Ayr,Fraserburgh and Falkirk.Prrformances against the so called lesser teams in the league have improved but all still cause us far far more problems than they should.Our core weaknesses are still there and haven’t been addressed.This is even more relevant when we come up against teams we have to try to adapt our game against as the match progresses.Murty unfortunately seems to be great if things go to plan throughout the game but wanting if he has to alter things to regain control.Its not about substitutions for the sake of them if we are doing well but being able to adjust your team to build on any advantage you already hold.His Achilles heel seems to be blind faith that his team can see out a game when some have either gone AWOL or legs are obviously going.Doesnt mean he won’t be a good manager in the future just he doesn’t seem to have the faith in himself yet to be able to act decisively when the occasion blatantly needs it.We as a club should not be the training ground for someone like him to learn their trade and make these mistakes.

[Ibroxholm 2,276]

43 minutes ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

All fair points mate.Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we are all experts after the event.Whilst results have been much better since the break some have been against the likes of Ayr,Fraserburgh and Falkirk.Prrformances against the so called lesser teams in the league have improved but all still cause us far far more problems than they should.Our core weaknesses are still there and haven’t been addressed.This is even more relevant when we come up against teams we have to try to adapt our game against as the match progresses.Murty unfortunately seems to be great if things go to plan throughout the game but wanting if he has to alter things to regain control.Its not about substitutions for the sake of them if we are doing well but being able to adjust your team to build on any advantage you already hold.His Achilles heel seems to be blind faith that his team can see out a game when some have either gone AWOL or legs are obviously going.Doesnt mean he won’t be a good manager in the future just he doesn’t seem to have the faith in himself yet to be able to act decisively when the occasion blatantly needs it.We as a club should not be the training ground for someone like him to learn their trade and make these mistakes.

Have to say I’m undecided over whether Murty should keep the job, he obviously lacks experience at the top level and that is a risk.  However, I do think there is a danger in continually changing managers so unless there are some outstanding candidate for the job, or the team’s results nosedive in the rest of the season, I would be tempted to keep him in place.

In his defence, he really has limited options to change things due to injuries to key players at present time.  That is exacerbated by players he clearly does not rate nor have the confidence to throw on.  He has come up with quite attractive system that utilises the available players quite well although leaves us a bit short and lightweight in midfield.  It will be interesting if he persists using the same formation when the likes of Dorrans, Jack and McCrorie becomes available again.

[piperpete 3,186]

4 hours ago, Ibroxholm said:

Nonsense.  Brenda was forced to make a change because they had a man sent off.  There was absolutely no need for Murty to do similar.  To blame our defeat yesterday on timing of substitutions is grasping at straws.

celtic went to 10 and kept two up front, Murty should have acted sooner as we had space but continued to play the way Brenda wanted us to by running at Teirney and ending up on most occasions stuck in the corner with no out ball as they had boxed us in, we needed to run through them in the Center of the park with options of both wings but we chose to continue to have Tav making runs into dead ends. 

 

Holt May have been a good option in place of Windass as  Josh was slowing up as the game went on. I feel yesterday was an opportunity missed with the defence they put out and Armstrong not playing, 

[backup 4,724]

The difference is relatively simple,they wanted it more and took it, much like we used to do.

[Ibroxholm 2,276]

14 minutes ago, piperpete said:

celtic went to 10 and kept two up front, Murty should have acted sooner as we had space but continued to play the way Brenda wanted us to by running at Teirney and ending up on most occasions stuck in the corner with no out ball as they had boxed us in, we needed to run through them in the Center of the park with options of both wings but we chose to continue to have Tav making runs into dead ends. 

 

Holt May have been a good option in place of Windass as  Josh was slowing up as the game went on. I feel yesterday was an opportunity missed with the defence they put out and Armstrong not playing, 

I think our options were limited regarding substitutions.  I’m not a great fan of a Windass and  Holt is a good enough player but he is not going to make any great difference in unlocking a packed defence.  

We made basic defensive errors, we missed open goals.  In a game that was always going to hard to win, we just couldn’t afford to do that.  There is no way a manager can legislate against such things.

[KeyserSoze 14,521]

2 hours ago, Siwel said:

Aye, he’s scared to make changes during games and ends up leaving it too late. In my opinion of course yours probably differs 

Don’t think he’s a shitebag. Just think he’s completely naive regarding in game tactics. Can’t seem to change it or see it 

[piperpete 3,186]

4 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

I think our options were limited regarding substitutions.  I’m not a great fan of a Windass and  Holt is a good enough player but he is not going to make any great difference in unlocking a packed defence.  

We made basic defensive errors, we missed open goals.  In a game that was always going to hard to win, we just couldn’t afford to do that.  There is no way a manager can legislate against such things.

I think the manager is too pally with his players and doesn’t want to upset anyone changing it early, Josh was blowing out his arse the second half and needed replaced, we played with two wingers mate stretching them, they played two up when they had ten men which leaves spaces behind their front two and our wingers stayed wide and no one took a gamble through the channels, Murphy on a few occasions was basically allowed by them to run across their 18 yard box as they knew none of our midfielders were taking or making runs into dangerous positions in the box, Murphy was desperate to flick it thru but had to go square and the ball ended up at Tav in the corner and they easily defend d that all day.

Not for a second saying Holt is the answer but he does make many runs into the box giving options

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,507]

10 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

I think our options were limited regarding substitutions.  I’m not a great fan of a Windass and  Holt is a good enough player but he is not going to make any great difference in unlocking a packed defence.  

We made basic defensive errors, we missed open goals.  In a game that was always going to hard to win, we just couldn’t afford to do that.  There is no way a manager can legislate against such things.

Holt doesn't have to unlock a packed defence, but us keeping the ball using the spare man in midfield means we bide our time and wait till they makeva mistake, wether its not tracking a runner or leaving their position

We left it at goss and docherty vs brown and nitcham, like it or not they two are more experienced than our two (at least one is) and they know how to play man for man

Against ten men we should have been 451 bringing our fullbacks up to the halfway line and pressing our wingers high up, force their team back, we did nothing