Popular Post Clemdog 39,389 Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 Quote Amid the mayhem at West Ham, the wider world missed the meaning of the raised and brandished corner flag. Understandably so. Only Hammers fans of a certain vintage will know that it was a symbol - a throwback to another time of mass protest in the stands when the club's supporters successfully torpedoed the hated Bond Scheme in 1992. At a home game against Everton in February that year, a fan very deliberately climbed out of the old South Bank end at Upton Park, grabbed a corner flag and marched slowly and methodically to the centre circle. He then planted it in the centre spot before sitting down, daring anybody to move him. A memorable picture of the time showed Julian Dickspleading with him to leave the pitch. Instead, hundreds more poured on to spark what became springtime of fury at the board's plans to make people pay for the right to buy their season ticket by purchasing a Bond first. A few bought them and they still have privileges to this day at the team's new home, the London Stadium. But the scheme was largely and quietly shelved and the directors had to find another way to finance the re-building of the ground. The man who carried the corner flag on to the pitch during the pitch invasions and fighting which disrupted Saturday's 3-0 defeat by Burnley looked to be of the right vintage to have understood the history behind his actions. Even if he didn't, plenty of older supporters will have noted it. The point about this is that it underlines both the fact that the trouble on Saturday was not a repeat of old-style, pointless hooliganism of yesteryear. Although it was very wrong and many people, including children, were frightened – such scenes also capture how profoundly the whole rotten, toxic mess at West Ham is rooted in the bewilderment of the fans over their lost heritage and the empty soullessness of what has replaced it. That heritage and history is no more special than at any other club, although it is true that that the Hammers have the strongest regional identity of London's major outfits and that the supporters have proudly nurtured that as a perfectly acceptable placebo for success. But no major club has undergone such a traumatic change of home. Arsenal moved into their own purpose built new stadium. Tottenham will next season. Chelsea in some years’ time, too. None of them was or will be set adrift from their followers even if they have gone global and corporate - and couldn't compete for trophies, otherwise. The nature of West Ham, by contrast, has been utterly changed by the move to the Olympic Park. That is why there are so many messages on Twitter declaring West Ham RIP - because so many people believe that the old club has gone and can't be replaced. Most fans were prepared to understand the need for the move because they understood it was a way forward. Most don't condone Saturday's troubles. But the ground isn't as promised. It really isn't. Neither has been the advancement of the team which was supposed to accompany the move from Green Street. Fans, actually, can accept that. They know that success in football cannot be guaranteed. But when they believe they have been lied to, a different response will set in. And West Ham's fans feel they were conned. That is why this is all so poisonous. Not because the team face relegation, but because some of the supporters feel they've been turned over. No matter that the board had to move or face accusations that they lacked vision and ambition - this is all such a Catch 22 for everyone involved - it will be hard now to convince the disgruntled hordes that they were not hood-winked. That genie is out of the lamp, so to speak. One pal of mine calls the ground Moonbase Alpha. Another says it resembles a Meccano Set put together back to front, if you get the idea. Athletics. Olympics. The Rolling Stones. Fine. But the London Stadium is not fit for purpose as a football ground. Until that situation is resolved, the problems at West Ham are going to go on and on and on and they may get even nastier. It is the very nature of the place which is eating away at the club from within. Every setback, every disappointment, every grievance is heightened and magnified by the sense of unrest and dislocation which the stadium breeds. Of course, there were bad times at Upton Park. Many more than there were good times, in fact. But it felt like home and the fans lived with all the mediocrity and the multiple relegations of recent decades. Stratford never will unless there are drastic changes or, in the end, there is a decision to bite the bullet, knock it down and re-build - and that’s beyond West Ham's powers - or move elsewhere. Put plainly, it surely cannot be beyond such successful business brains as those of David Sullivan, Karren Brady and David Gold to find a way to ease this part of the problem and improve the atmosphere of the place. That is the responsibility they took on when the decided to leave home. They are hamstrung because West Ham are merely tenants in E20. But something more profound and meaningful needs to be done than decorating the place with temporary-looking claret-and-blue hoardings and occasionally commemorating the memory of Bobby Moore. For now West Ham can only react instantly to these events. Their statements read: "West Ham United have immediately launched a full and thorough investigation into the incidents which marred the second half of the match and are committed to taking decisive and appropriate action. "An emergency meeting has been called with all London Stadium stakeholders. There will be no further comment at this time." That's the response you would expect. The club must act strongly. The long term, though, requires some innovative, clear and insightful thinking. Honestly, I'm at a loss for now to come up with an instant way of making the stadium feel more loved and loveable. But there has to be a ground shift and the issues created by the fact that West Ham have landlords to deal with have to be confronted afresh. There has to be, perhaps, some way of making the surrounds of the place more hospitable, more fan friendly, more like home. In the era of fashionable pop-up bars, restaurants and shops, surely there is something to work with here. Inside, the ground has to change drastically, too. Whatever promises were made when the owners were convincing the supporters to back the move, the seats are yards and yards from the pitch. And the rolling out of the section which covers the running-track on the dugout side just makes things worse as a huge chasm opens up behind them. There are sections of bare concrete and metalwork on show all around the ground and it creates a bleak sense of ugliness and estrangement in an atmosphere which feels little like that of a proper football ground. The on-going stewarding problems require dealing with robustly, too. There can be no going back to Upton Park. But the board appear to have failed to grasp some of the profound issues created by the move to Stratford. West Ham admit they would have earned ‘similar’ at the Boleyn Ground after announcing record £43m profit Perhaps, in fact, those issues were insurmountable all along for one simple reason - the stadium was built for the Olympics, not football. But the time for hoping that things will all settle down in the end is over. West Ham have to find a way, however difficult, to change the very nature of their new home. Their fans were told moving to this stadium would turn them into a Club challenging for Europe. But now the owners are trying to manage expectations by saying it only earns them an additional £8 Million a year? Interesting. I wonder how much it'll have increased the overall value of West Ham though? Not to mention how much was pocketed after selling the Boleyn. A fucking hatchet job by the Dildo Brothers. Fred H Crawford, AlbertzLoyalRSC, jackunion and 8 others 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prso's headband 34,987 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I really feel for them. The heart and soul has been ripped out of them all in the name of corporate greed, which incidentally hasn’t happened anyway. It had shambles written all over it from the start. chris182, Spliffy, East London Loyal and 1 other 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RangersMedia 35,961 Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 The corporate greed prevalent down there is mental and has ripped the soul from the whole league (not to mention the effect it has had on our game up here). Their fans fell for the nonsense coming out from the greasy bastard owners. harlands plater, Spliffy, DonMuffin and 2 others 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BlearyEyedBear 4,148 Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 The Boleyn was a proper football ground that served West Ham for 112 years. GSB have not only sold Hammers fans a lie, they’ve scattered their heritage and identity to the wind. Spliffy, East London Loyal, harlands plater and 2 others 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Spliffy 643 Posted March 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2018 THIS is what money has to done to football, English in particular. They HAVE killed one of the great, football clubs of the country. All in the name of money and greed. How could anyone believe that moving there could propel them further??! Who were they going to leapfrog with a bigger stadium capacity?? Pie in the sky thinking, or a pack of lies easily swallowed. Turns the stomach. Their home was more important than MAYBE making Europe on the odd occasion, but we all know it was for other vested interests they left. They are an underdog club with history, the charm of West Ham was that they weren't like the other London teams. Well, it's fucked now, and they can't go back. Football like all things in life is cyclical. There may will come the day when English football isn't the franchise driven billionaire play thing anymore, or even if British football as a whole is no longer centre stage due to the changing world. Whenever it happens and the money disappears, what will they have to show for it all? I guarantee every West Ham fan would prefer themselves to yo-yo between the top two divisions at the Boleyn Ground, than monotonous midtable at the Olympic. At least they'd still have their soul. It's probably the only small blessing of being in Scottish football, that the franchise money men aren't going to infect our game selling "progression." Siam69, billscott, Gman36 and 5 others 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BertContraband 282 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Absolute joke of a team. From where they were in 15-16 to now. Hope they go down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoatbridgeBear 7,113 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Disgraceful whats happened there, it must not even feel like their club anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElBufalo20 7,822 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Shocking that they moved the stadium but let's not pretend they were a big club. Regardless of where they play the are still a bit of a yoyo club. Some of their fans need a reality check. gsa and Mr Soprano 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry handsome 629 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Irrespective of our likes or dislikes for West Ham the fact is the fans are being treated like shite, the game in general is fucked these days. Far too many non football in it for themselves, either massaging their ego or their wallet. tannerall and bombaybadboy08 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pcbear 10,913 Posted March 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2018 On 3/13/2018 at 15:36, psb07158 said: The corporate greed prevalent down there is mental and has ripped the soul from the whole league (not to mention the effect it has had on our game up here). Their fans fell for the nonsense coming out from the greasy bastard owners. ThIs is 100% true, I went to the old Boleyn Ground a couple of times and it was like a bigger Tynecastle with the fans close to the pitch, there was a section called the chicken run where the fans used to verbally terrorise the opposition, that's all gone now in the pursuit of commercial "progress" and that has gone tits up big time. If you ever listen to talksport and the talk is of the EPL every conversation ends up about money and it bores the shit out of me, how much per week how much for transfers etc etc yesterday they reckoned Sanchez and Ozil are on about a million a week between them at their respective clubs, a million fuckin pounds! The Rangers are still steeped in history and tradition and we still have values, I would not swap that for all the riches and falseness of the bloated EPL clubs. I read an article yesterday comparing last Sundays game to a top EPL fixture one line was about the goals and in the game they were talking about behind the goal near everyone had their phone up in the air filming it where at Ibrox at the goals not a phone in sight with everyone lost in the moment of mentalness of a goal, I thought is was a good comparison, its real stuff v the tourist fans. murzo, Spliffy, chris182 and 4 others 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tannerall 25,935 Posted March 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2018 13 hours ago, BertContraband said: Absolute joke of a team. From where they were in 15-16 to now. Hope they go down. Joke of a team ? A team that have won European trophies, numerous cups, famous for their attractive football in the 70s and 80s, with a loyal and passionate fan base. One of only 8 teams to have never fallen below the top two leagues of English football, slowly being destroyed by inept leadership, and the mechanisms of modern commercial interests. Fred H Crawford, Blue Rino, AlCapone and 5 others 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone 7,678 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Sasa'onlyPLGsuccess'Papac said: Shocking that they moved the stadium but let's not pretend they were a big club. Regardless of where they play the are still a bit of a yoyo club. Some of their fans need a reality check. You’re not really understanding this are you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewislaudrup 844 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Happening to other clubs look at coventry city and blackburn, clubs being ripped up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombaybadboy08 15,660 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Have a soft spot for the Hammers and it’s fairly obvious the ove has hampered them. Their stadium is a bigger version of Hampden, miles away from the crowd and very difficult to feel close to the action. No sure where they go from here but their fans deserve better and I feel for them. Inigo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo 32,524 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 English football is paying the fiddler a bit with this kind of shit. It was always going to happen, when the real cash started to flow, that clubs would change and that the character of the top end of the game would be vastly different. It's a shame for the old heart of the support of the likes of West Ham and I'm not saying they should have seen it coming, but it IS the consequence of globalising and hoarding of the best players, which until their ground move West Ham fans were probably loving, despite it meaning that other clubs and leagues from outwith England were suffering the pain as a direct consequence of them experiencing the pleasure. Because the rise of the EPL and the likes of West Ham accruing massive squads of good players cost others, like us. That said, I still have sympathy. I'm sure anyone would take what they thought would improve their club's stature and they don't deserve these consequences. Top end English football has pretty much decided what it wants to be, and the Olympic Stadium is it. Go elsewhere if you want to see heart, heritage and local flavour. bombaybadboy08 and tannerall 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BertContraband 282 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 5 hours ago, tannerall said: Joke of a team ? A team that have won European trophies, numerous cups, famous for their attractive football in the 70s and 80s, with a loyal and passionate fan base. One of only 8 teams to have never fallen below the top two leagues of English football, slowly being destroyed by inept leadership, and the mechanisms of modern commercial interests. They're no Wigan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post East London Loyal 420 Posted March 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2018 The board won't win, this fight will rage on. West Ham are an institution, they're the thing other than my family I love most. TEFTONG, tannerall, CoatbridgeBear and 2 others 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAndEver 70,939 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Grew a dislike for them the last couple of years but it's been shite on them Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannerall 25,935 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 41 minutes ago, East London Loyal said: The board won't win, this fight will rage on. West Ham are an institution, they're the thing other than my family I love most. Hard to explain nowadays how big a game the 76 Cup Winners Cup final was, effectively the 2nd biggest European game after the European cup itself. Anderlecht were a great team then, played the Dutch way with a few great Dutch players in the team too, got to 3 successive European finals and won two. I really liked Rensenbrink and Van Der Elst the two players who won that final for them, but West Ham played their part in what was a great game between two quality attacking teams. Inigo and East London Loyal 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannerall 25,935 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 A 24 inch TV was big back then. siddiqi_drinker 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoatbridgeBear 7,113 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 17 hours ago, East London Loyal said: The board won't win, this fight will rage on. West Ham are an institution, they're the thing other than my family I love most. Give them hell mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Williamson. 81,469 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I like Millwall Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannerall 25,935 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 hours ago, .Williamson. said: I like Millwall No one likes Millwall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Williamson. 81,469 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 55 minutes ago, tannerall said: No one likes Millwall. I do. Great club. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Soprano 13,964 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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