New Vanguard Bear Article.

[standup 829]

Still waiting for the video to start its the news thats on it just now. . 

[Virtuoso 27,180]

12 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

There’s a great economic case for independence and I voted remain. 

How would Scotland cope if the Barnett Formula was no longer applied, i.e; how would Scotland cope when given a per-capita budget the same as the rest of the country and constituency sizes the same as everyone else?

The popularity of Scottish independence would have died a sudden death if the national parties in Westminster stated their intention that the flow of English money to Edinburgh would stop on the day Scotland became independent or more to the point, quasi-independent - (as" independence" as used in the phrase "Scottish independence") is meaningless since Sturgeon can't wait to submerge Scotland in that great democracy, the EU 

Scotland has no way of funding itself and if Independence were to ever happen, Scotland would become an unimportant single EU Region standing alone among 270 others all clambering for largesse and special treatment - which we wouldn't get.

We'd become another bankrupt, socialist backwater.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 minutes ago, standup said:

Thats different from declaring as a high heid yin in Scotland. The Berwick Rangers question is in my original reply to you. It is simply what will happen to Berwick Rangers in free Scotland.   Do you have Unionist mates.

I’ve had my season ticket for 31 years now - so even if leader I’d be at the games.

Berwick can still play in Scotland - i’ll get it written in the treaty or cede them back into the fold. 

I have no mates! My wife is from Omagh she is very Unionist - she allows me my own opinion tho. 

[coopscracker 38]

1 minute ago, standup said:

Thats brilliant. Are YOU taking it down from Ibrox. And Im not asking you anyway, its BP9 who said ask away.

Kool mate im not answering your questions anyway, I'm just the guy who makes condescending twats look like ignorant twats by fact checking them. 

Yer welcome 

[coopscracker 38]

4 minutes ago, standup said:

Still waiting for the video to start its the news thats on it just now. . 

The nub of it is

Graham Bartram (born 1963), a British vexillologist who is, as of 2013, the secretary-general for congresses of theFédération internationale des associations vexillologiques and the chief vexillologist of the Flag Institute, when interviewed on theBBC Broadcasting House programme on 13 October 2013, stated that either name was perfectly valid whatever the purpose. He stated that the theory that the flag should only be referred to as "Union Jack" when flown at sea was wrong

[bluedylan 11,555]

26 minutes ago, coopscracker said:

Granted I listen to an inordinate lot of drivel from Sturgeon

[coopscracker 38]

6 minutes ago, Virtuoso said:

How would Scotland cope if the Barnett Formula was no longer applied, i.e; how would Scotland cope when given a per-capita budget the same as the rest of the country and constituency sizes the same as everyone else?

The popularity of Scottish independence would have died a sudden death if the national parties in Westminster stated their intention that the flow of English money to Edinburgh would stop on the day Scotland became independent or more to the point, quasi-independent - (as" independence" as used in the phrase "Scottish independence") is meaningless since Sturgeon can't wait to submerge Scotland in that great democracy, the EU 

Scotland has no way of funding itself and if Independence were to ever happen, Scotland would become an unimportant single EU Region standing alone among 270 others all clambering for largesse and special treatment - which we wouldn't get.

We'd become another bankrupt, socialist backwater.

It's almost as if you don't know Wales an NI also use the Barnet formula. But it surely can't be the case that someone with such a strong opinion doesn't understand the subject at hand.. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

14 minutes ago, coopscracker said:

Yupe

Your picture of him is in a Scotland top and not a Rangers one which is telling 

[standup 829]

1 minute ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I’ve had my season ticket for 31 years now - so even if leader I’d be at the games.

Berwick can still play in Scotland - i’ll get it written in the treaty or cede them back into the fold. 

I have no mates! My wife is from Omagh she is very Unionist - she allows me my own opinion tho. 

If the separate nation of England lets them. And it now looks like you have a backer. I hope like me you havent asked anyone to back you.

I would expect protests from a sizeable amount of Nationalists against your regular visits to Ibrox, which could lead to unrest along with Unionist Rangers fans not happy about it either. How would you deal with protests, I think Scotland wont be a protest free country a newly free Scotland would be a wee bit nervy. A wee spark could ignite it. What plans do you have to deal with these not improbable scenarios.   Thats my last question for tonight. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

19 minutes ago, Virtuoso said:

How would Scotland cope if the Barnett Formula was no longer applied, i.e; how would Scotland cope when given a per-capita budget the same as the rest of the country and constituency sizes the same as everyone else?

The popularity of Scottish independence would have died a sudden death if the national parties in Westminster stated their intention that the flow of English money to Edinburgh would stop on the day Scotland became independent or more to the point, quasi-independent - (as" independence" as used in the phrase "Scottish independence") is meaningless since Sturgeon can't wait to submerge Scotland in that great democracy, the EU 

Scotland has no way of funding itself and if Independence were to ever happen, Scotland would become an unimportant single EU Region standing alone among 270 others all clambering for largesse and special treatment - which we wouldn't get.

We'd become another bankrupt, socialist backwater.

If we were independent the barnet formulae would not exist - we would survive just fine. Not only would be have our own oil revenue we would not subsidise the folly of trident renewal or provide any more subsidy to London centric infrastructure plans. ( pa the Barnet formulae is so skewed it should be scrapped - it’s not really fit for purpose).

can I also ask if we are such an economic drag on the UK why do the rest want to hold onto us so badly? Is it their altruistic nature? ( no laughing at the back) would it not make economic sense for the rest of the uk to dump us? 

And if things did get bad we would still have the whisky to drink and make all our cares go away. 

Oh and Scotland would still be the land that has Rangers so life would not be all bad. 

[coopscracker 38]

5 minutes ago, bluedylan said:

28 minutes ago, coopscracker said:

Granted I listen to an inordinate lot of drivel from Sturgeon

Ohh good one

If you want my come back you will need to scrape it off yer maws teeth. 

Cheers Jimmy 

[Virtuoso 27,180]

1 minute ago, coopscracker said:

It's almost as if you don't know Wales an NI also use the Barnet formula. But it surely can't be the case that someone with such a strong opinion doesn't understand the subject at hand.. 

Wales weren't seeking independence and it remains to be seen if NI would (in all eventualities)

Your argument doesn't hold water in the current climate (although I do see the point you're trying to make).

[standup 829]

7 minutes ago, coopscracker said:

The nub of it is

Graham Bartram (born 1963), a British vexillologist who is, as of 2013, the secretary-general for congresses of theFédération internationale des associations vexillologiques and the chief vexillologist of the Flag Institute, when interviewed on theBBC Broadcasting House programme on 13 October 2013, stated that either name was perfectly valid whatever the purpose. He stated that the theory that the flag should only be referred to as "Union Jack" when flown at sea was wrong

Hmmm, Rangers fans do sing Under a Union Jack. But will the Jack or Flag still be flown in Public like Ibrox or Edinburgh Castle. I would imagine protests. If not whos taking the Ibrox Flag Jack.

[coopscracker 38]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Your picture of him is in a Scotland top and not a Rangers one which is telling 

What is it "telling" you? That he played for Scotland.... I feel that is something you should have been aware of. 

Never mind, every day is a school day. 

[gsa 3,906]

12 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I’ve had my season ticket for 31 years now - so even if leader I’d be at the games.

Berwick can still play in Scotland - i’ll get it written in the treaty or cede them back into the fold. 

I have no mates! My wife is from Omagh she is very Unionist - she allows me my own opinion tho. 

I don't believe you've had a season ticket for 31 years. That would suggest you're at least in your 40's? Yet you have the political views of a 14 year old. 

 

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, coopscracker said:

What is it "telling" you? That he played for Scotland.... I feel that is something you should have been aware of. 

Never mind, every day is a school day. 

It re-affirms my initial point that if you actually are a Rangers fan then Scotland means more to you than Rangers 

[coopscracker 38]

2 minutes ago, standup said:

Hmmm, Rangers fans do sing Under a Union Jack. But will the Jack or Flag still be flown in Public like Ibrox or Edinburgh Castle. I would imagine protests. If not whos taking the Ibrox Flag Jack.

Why should it not be.. We are British by geography, leaving the UK wouldn't change that. 

 

[bluedylan 11,555]

2 minutes ago, coopscracker said:

Ohh good one

If you want my come back you will need to scrape it off yer maws teeth. 

Cheers Jimmy 

I did not know Oscar Wilde was a Teuchter

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 minutes ago, standup said:

If the separate nation of England lets them. And it now looks like you have a backer. I hope like me you havent asked anyone to back you.

I would expect protests from a sizeable amount of Nationalists against your regular visits to Ibrox, which could lead to unrest along with Unionist Rangers fans not happy about it either. How would you deal with protests, I think Scotland wont be a protest free country a newly free Scotland would be a wee bit nervy. A wee spark could ignite it. What plans do you have to deal with these not improbable scenarios.   Thats my last question for tonight. 

I have a backer? 

As you said improbable scenarios but you want me to reply? Ok post a democratic vote for yes, a period of negotiation and final separation - if the country was a bit fractious I’d just make a plea on tv for us all To sing kumba ya together - Who could get worked up into the frenzy needed to revolt whilst singing ‘kumba ya’- sorted. 

[coopscracker 38]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

It re-affirms my initial point that if you actually are a Rangers fan then Scotland means more to you than Rangers 

Jesus are you 7 year old? I love that particular Scotland strip, seeing coop wearing it pleases me. Best of both worlds. 

Unlike you I don't think I need to choose between my country and club ya sad fuck. 

The world must look awful through your prism of bitterness and hate.  Fuck being  you.... Not even for a minute 

 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

8 minutes ago, Virtuoso said:

Wales weren't seeking independence and it remains to be seen if NI would (in all eventualities)

Your argument doesn't hold water in the current climate (although I do see the point you're trying to make).

Wales are also setup differently, constitutionally, from Scotland. 

 

[coopscracker 38]

1 minute ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I have a backer? 

As you said improbable scenarios but you want me to reply? Ok post a democratic vote for yes, a period of negotiation and final separation - if the country was a bit fractious I’d just make a plea on tv for us all To sing kumba ya together - Who could get worked up into the frenzy needed to revolt whilst singing ‘kumba ya’- sorted. 

I applaud your patience but there must come a time when you realise you are farting against thunder. 

I'm away to bed, mind turn the lights out before you come to bed. 

[Virtuoso 27,180]

1 minute ago, Bluepeter9 said:

If we were independent the bennet formulae would not exist - we would survive just fine. Not only would be have our own oil revenue

Let's cut this down to simplicity - what oil revenue? That was Salmonds ace card until it all went suddenly tits up.

A few months ago, I was speaking with a Norwegian 'petroleum specialist' from Conoco Phillips and the subject of North Sea sector reserves was mentioned. He estimated that there is approximately 30 years to 40 years left maximum. That's oil production, not continued drilling and finding new reserves. The issue isn't that it will run out 'per se', but the difficulties in extracting it, especially in North Sea conditions due to increased costs as it involves drilling at deeper depths using HPHT (high pressure, high temperature) drilling without any guarantee of a return. Major drilling companies are moving out of the North Sea in favour of either higher day rates in the Norwegian sector or overseas work where costs are considerably lower - revenue that Scotland will never see.

Transocean, possibly the biggest drilling contractor in the world are finished here, all north sea assets sold off. The company I previously worked for for has six rigs, one here, one stacked, four in Norway.

Now an important fact regarding oil in general:

It doesn't belong to Scotland, it belongs to whoever pays to extract the stuff . The pipeline infrastructure is already there, all that has to be determined is where it comes ashore. Sturgeon might say, we'll set a tax on the price of oil in relation to the price per barrel set by OPEC. England then says we'll set it lower. Bang, the tap goes anti-clockwise south of the border. Again, generating revenue that Scotland will never see.

What is interesting (and something that Sturgeon should pay heed to) is that in various polls; Aberdeen, oil capital of the world and SNP heartland, continually showed the weakest support for independence. That assertion alone speaks volumes. 

 

Here's an interesting article:

 

Quote

Economists have warned that Scotland is stuck in a damaging cycle of weak growth and called on politicians to stop making excuses for the country's poor performance.

The Fraser of Allander Institute think tank says that the oil slump and Brexit can no longer be blamed for Scotland being the only part of the UK to be on the brink of a recession.

The Scottish economy shrunk during the final three months of last year. The figures for the first quarter of this year will be published next week. Two consecutive quarters of negative growth would put Scotland into recession.

The new report predicts the economy will grow slightly over the course of this year but says it would be a 'close run thing' as to whether it managed to avoid a downturn.

It is the gap between the rest of the UK and the picture north of the border, however, that is causing most concern.

This month the EY Scottish Item Club economic forecasting group predicted 'below-par' GDP growth of 0.9 per cent in 2017 '" half of that expected for the UK.

The Fraser of Allander report says: 'The institute's new analysis finds that Scotland's recent economic woes can no longer be explained just by the downturn in the North Sea or indeed by Brexit. Instead, Scotland's economy seems to be stuck in a cycle of weak growth, declining confidence and poor investment and net export figures.'

Yesterday a spokesman for the think tank said 'levels of consumer confidence and business sentiment are much weaker in Scotland than the UK as a whole'.

It is thought a combination of factors, including the possibility of another independence referendum, the North Sea downturn and uncertainty over Brexit, have depressed confidence, shrunk investment levels and reduced wage growth.

While financial services are growing again, the blows in the banking sector suffered by RBS and HBOS hit Scotland disproportionately hard compared with the rest of the UK.

Government figures show that Scotland's economy contracted by 0.2 per cent at the end of last year, in the face of a broader expansion in the UK. The official statistics released in April revealed overall GDP growth in 2016 was just 0.4 per cent, compared with 1.8 per cent in the UK as a whole. Quarterly growth in the UK was 0.7 per cent in the last three months of the year.

Ministers have routinely emphasised Scotland's buoyant labour market, claiming unemployment is not as bad as in the rest of the UK, but many more people are now working part time or doing a variety of low-paid jobs. Graeme Roy, director of the Fraser of Allander Institute, said: 'The Scottish economy continues to lag behind the UK as a whole, with the scale of the gap growing rather than narrowing.

'In the current climate sentiment can change quickly. Should the upcoming Brexit negotiations go badly, or the UK economy slows down more quickly than anticipated, then Scotland's economic prospects could take a sharp turn for the worse.'

He warned that the prospects for household budgets looked 'tough', with inflation set to rise while wages stagnate.

'Coming on the back of little growth in real earnings since the financial crisis, for many households it will feel increasingly like a 'lost decade',' he said.

Jackie Baillie, the Labour MSP, said: 'Every time difficult figures for our economy are announced SNP ministers claim the fundamentals of our economy are strong. Ministers must take their heads out of the sand and stop being complacent.'

Dean Lockhart, for the Conservatives, said that the Scottish economy was lagging behind while 'the rest of the UK powers ahead.'

However Keith Brown, Scotland's economy minister, warned that a hard Brexit would make matters worse.

'While these signs are encouraging, we must be clear that the biggest threat to Scotland's economy continues to be Brexit '" as this report from Fraser of Allander makes clear,' he said.

'The UK government must work with us and the other devolved administrations with the aim of keeping the UK and Scotland in the single market and customs union.' 

 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

9 minutes ago, gsa said:

I don't believe you've had a season ticket for 31 years. That would suggest you're at least in your 40's? Yet you have the political views of a 14 year old. 

 

I have the brains of a 12 year old - and the body of an 80 year old - but I am 58. 

[BlueAvenger 10,208]

13 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

If we were independent the bennet formulae would not exist - we would survive just fine. Not only would be have our own oil revenue 

In 2014 smarmy Salmond said oil revenue would be £8 billion pounds in the first year of separation. Can you tell me how much it was ?